Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow!

[bluevortex]

....because I have got Vredestein Wintrac4 Extreme snow tyres on my T180! I had the car booked into local Toyota today to get the 18" wheels taken off and replaced with a set of 17" XTR /snow tyre combo. All done and dusted for £23, not too bad at all

Luckily for me it has not stopped snowing all day here in Grantown, so the devil on my shoulder got the better of me and I have been out this evening testing the tyres and Rav4 out on some rather remote, steep country roads covered in lovely fresh snow (2-4" deep) not difficult to find here, and so far I am delighted with them They gripped very well on a very steep climb and descent and the only things holding them back was me, getting a bit nervous... I know what a girl, but this is my first 4 wheel drive! The weather man says we are forecast snow right up until the w/e so I should get more of a chance to play between writing essays for Uni) over the coming days ;)

One very strange thing though - I was expecting my tyre pressure warning light to be on now the wheels have been replaced without valves? Toyota even warned me this would be the case but since I have it back, no light at all? How is this possible? I know the valves weren't taken from my original wheels, so how's this?

Will hopefully update this thread with some pictures by the weekend

Blue

[rambler]

Lucky you

No snow here in Essex yet ,hardly ever even get a dusting of the stuff.

Let alone being able to test Rav in it,crossing my fingers though.Want it like last year...but for weeks on end....inches and inches of the stuff please

BRING.........IT..........ON !

P L E A S E

***********

[shcm]

no light at all? How is this possible? I know the valves weren't taken from my original wheels, so how's this?

Has the engine been running for more than 1 hour (i.e. has the TPMS ECU been powered up for more than 1 hour) yet?

Reading between the lines for the TPMS documentation, I think it needs about 1 hour before it decides it can't hear the valves.

If I remember correctly sywy found something similar.

[MarsKy]

I was having a look at new alloys and snow tyres last night - what was your all-in price for your setup?

Regarding TPMS, I came to the conclusion it is bl**dy useless.

The Toyota brochure states, "... Additionally, innovative tyres with RFT are available on the RAV4 T180. These state-of-the-art tyres have self-supporting technology that can keep the vehicle going for longer with a puncture, with a Tyre Pressure Warning System that alerts you the second a tyre begins to lose pressure."

But as you have found, it takes a long time before it warns you. Some folk have done up to their 50 mile RFT "allowance" before the thing has warned them.

[anchorman]

Snowy photo then Blue?

As shcm says - the light will come on!

[bothwell_buyer]

saw a programme tonight about how the private contractors in Iraq use runflats all the time - and not one complaint!!

However they don't do snow there.

Now - how do I supercharge our JCB515 - great tyres for mud and snow, and 4 wheel drive..... :D

[Monitorlizard]

Hi,

agree with MarsKy on this subject.After a 600 mile trip around North Norfolk,the other week,took my T180 into Mr T for a check on the replaced head gasket.When I went to collect,I was told that my rear nearside tyre was under pressured,but no signs of a puncture.To which I replied that I had had no TPMS light on.It could have been under inflated for some considerable time,& getting worse.

[local hero]

Lucky you

No snow here in Essex yet ,hardly ever even get a dusting of the stuff.

Let alone being able to test Rav in it,crossing my fingers though.Want it like last year...but for weeks on end....inches and inches of the stuff please

BRING.........IT..........ON !

P L E A S E

***********

Please, don't pray for snow, other than xmas day, I've got to try + make a living driving in the stuff, and in the worst vehicle you can imagine Stew

[Davrav]

Lucky you

No snow here in Essex yet ,hardly ever even get a dusting of the stuff.

Let alone being able to test Rav in it,crossing my fingers though.Want it like last year...but for weeks on end....inches and inches of the stuff please

BRING.........IT..........ON !

P L E A S E

***********

Please, don't pray for snow, other than xmas day, I've got to try + make a living driving in the stuff, and in the worst vehicle you can imagine Stew

You need one of these Stew:LINK

[igormus]

Lucky you

No snow here in Essex yet ,hardly ever even get a dusting of the stuff.

Let alone being able to test Rav in it,crossing my fingers though.Want it like last year...but for weeks on end....inches and inches of the stuff please

BRING.........IT..........ON !

P L E A S E

***********

Please, don't pray for snow, other than xmas day, I've got to try + make a living driving in the stuff, and in the worst vehicle you can imagine Stew

You need one of these Stew:LINK

but we have got hugh rain during several days - so the roads look like rivers with speedboats cars :) -- thanks for 17" and high grip that pushes water. Cheers/Igor

[shcm]

I was told that my rear nearside tyre was under pressured,but no signs of a puncture.To which I replied that I had had no TPMS light on.It could have been under inflated for some considerable time,& getting worse.

Don't take offence at me saying this and also perhaps the perception of the system is wrong (maybe the dealers don't understand it either), but I believe the system is not really designed as a replacement for checking your tyre pressures regularly.

It is more to give you a warning of a rapidly deflating tyre (OK, not really rapidly as I think that would be obvious anyway), over several minutes or perhaps hours, not days. Try letting the air out of a tyre over a few minutes and I expect you will get the light on.

I've never worked on one of these systems, so I admit I am not fully aware of all the nitty-gritty details involved - which you do get when you spend a good deal of time developing such things. However, I do work with people that have worked on TPMS design/development.

What you have to remember is the tyre pressure will be wobbling all over the place. (Remember physics? for a given volume of gas the pressure will vary with temperature?). For example, there will be variation due to car standing over night, standing in the sun, heating up due to driving, wheel rotation, topping up, general normal leakage.........The deflation algorithm in the TPMS ECU has to deal with all that and not give lots of false warnings (customers also complain about that!) and do it very cheaply (they are cheap, but, OK, valve prices might not seem cheap to the end user), but accurately and reliably over a wide temperature range and have a ten year valve Battery life....and......and.......

OK, you can have an absolute pressure threshold point, where the tyre is considered under-inflated and there probably is one, but I guess the ECU really has to be certain, taking into account factors such as the ones given as examples above.

The dealers perception of under-inflation may well be different to that of the TPMS too.

What I'm trying to say is that when you really start looking deeply into these things when developing such systems, there are almost always compromises to be made, from factors that are not immediately obvious to the end user, or perhaps to the development engineer for that matter. :D.

It sounds like the Toyota system could be better, but it doesn't really surprise me that it behaves the way it does.

and in the worst vehicle you can imagine Stew

So, you're not cabbing in a MKI Freelander now are you LH? :D.

[MarsKy]

It is more to give you a warning of a rapidly deflating tyre (OK, not really rapidly as I think that would be obvious anyway), over several minutes or perhaps hours, not days. Try letting the air out of a tyre over a few minutes and I expect you will get the light on.

Yeah, but to have what is effectively 4 instantaneously and totally deflated tyres (because in Blue's case, the tyres with pressure sensors aren't even there!), and not get a warning for a considerable period of time really means the TPMS supplied to the T180 isn't doing its job (and as marketed in the brochure).

How frequently the tyre pressure sensor is sending the pressure data to the computer management system, and then what that system is doing with the data, seems to be out of kilter with letting you know asap what's happening.

Is it an inherent fault with Toyota's TPMS design or build, but because it's a safety system and so would be a hidden failure under normal driving conditions, it's not really being brought to Toyota's attention?

A pressure gauge and a feel for the handling are probably better than the T180's TPMS.

Still love my T180 though

[shcm]

Yeah, but to have what is effectively 4 instantaneously and totally deflated tyres (because in Blue's case, the tyres with pressure sensors aren't even there!), and not get a warning for a considerable period of time really means the TPMS supplied to the T180 isn't doing its job (and as marketed in the brochure).

Battery Life! How often do you want to replace the valve? One year? Two years? six months? Lots of radio transmissions equals short Battery life.

One of those best case compromises again.

There are newer chips appearing, where the vibration from the movement of the wheel can power the valve, but this thing would have been designed about 7 odd years ago, possibly more allowing for vehicle proving programmes.

The valve probably only transmits occassionally, unless it sees rapid pressure reduction. So it takes a while before the ECU gets upset that it hasn't seen a valve. Then there is the problem that it will not properly hear the valve every single time - fact of cheap low power radio transmission. So the ECU really has to be certain there is no valve there.

Yes, OK, it is probably one of the cheaper systems. Some systems have what we used to refer to as "initiators". This is an antenna in each wheel well used by the ECU to request the valve to transmit. I don't believe the RAVs system is this type. The RAV's ECU just has to wait for a transmission. It's probably doing a reasonable job under the circumstances. With "initiators", you could challenge all the valves at ignition on and determine their absence there and then.

I'm not defending the overall system concept though. It's probably nicer to have 2 way communication with the valve, rather than just valve to ECU comms that the RAV has. That puts the cost up and every penny counts.

Ah, you say, I'd gladly pay a bit more for a good system. If you do that for every component on the vehicle it can cost £thousands more, then you won't buy it. Beleive me, every penny counts and is scrutinised.

I agree, it could be better and the marketing is possibly dubious.

[Smiler AS]

Where about did you order the Vredesteins from?

Did you get them changed at dealer in Inverness or Elgin?

Hopefully pick up my XT5 this weekend and have got 5 new Rav4 OEM alloys in loft waiting for new tyres too.

Im just along the road between Elgin & Rothes.

[bluevortex]

Just a quick update (still snowing ;) ) - I have travelled approx 80 miles since the new wheels (minus pressure sensors) were changed over. I have been out on four individual journeys and still no sensor light visible on the dashboard? Oh well, my wheel spare wheel bag arrived today so I better get that put on..

Blue

Smiler AS - I bought my Vredesteins from www.mytyres.com and got them fitted at Toyota Inverness. I bought brand new XTR wheels from Anchorman earlier in the year. The total cost to kit the car out was about £750. I felt this was more than justified after last winter and the main reason I bought a 4 wheel drive in the first place. The benefit are I can change the wheel round myself come spring to originals (all be it without RFT's)

[Smiler AS]

Cheers, I have had a look about, doesnt seem like Vredestein are doing a delivery until after new year to UK.

Was it 225/65/17 tyres?

Although, Camskill do have 235/60/17 Vredesteins at not a bad price, the running size / overall diameter is not far from 225/65/17.

Im tempted.

Il see how I get on taking the car back up the A9 on Sat evening, by the looks of the weather - it will be tested thoroughly!

[local hero]

and in the worst vehicle you can imagine Stew

So, you're not cabbing in a MKI Freelander now are you LH? :D.

You don,t believe me read this its quite amusing LINK Skip first few paragraphs Stew

[Pim]

You also could try and convert your RAV4 to being a cab.

Then you might also make a lot more money, since people would actually enjoy driving with you around the country.

Greetz

Pim

[shcm]

You don,t believe me read this its quite amusing

:lol2: Excellent Stew. I enjoyed that. Like the 0-60mph line too. As far as I am concerned you deserve every single tip.

I expect it makes you appreciate the RAV though.

Have you ever been Karting, then got back into your own vehicle (or probably any vehicle :D)? I find it suddenly feels even more smooth and powerful for a while. I can imagine you might get a similar thing going from CAB to RAV.

Maybe you should try the "from Kart to cab" swap. You might find the cab smooth and powerful for, oh, at least 30 seconds.

[bluevortex]

I haven't seen a blizzard like this before! If it carries on through tonight forget the Rav my house will under snow!

I have to say the Rav has been excellent today and I have tested to the max. I couldn't be happier with how it's performed in the snow so far....

[chatman]

I haven't seen a blizzard like this before! If it carries on through tonight forget the Rav my house will under snow!

I have to say the Rav has been excellent today and I have tested to the max. I couldn't be happier with how it's performed in the snow so far....

PHA what's all the fuss about.... Daaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnnn Soooooooouuuuuuuth we aint got no snow..... just nice clear roads...... But plenty of road salt stock piled though.... so if you lot up north need any.... just give us a call and we can come to some ££££££££££££££££££££££ arrangement......B) B) B) B) B) B) B) B)

[sywy]

Just to confirm what shcm has said, the tpms light will come on if you run for over an hour in one single journey. I think mine didn't come on until after about 4 weeks, when I drove from just outside Derby to Manchester. I seem to remember it came on after about 1 hour and 10 mins of driving. The light has been flashing ever since. Can't remember when it first came on, but it's over 6 months ago now!! I've just learnt to ignore it.

BTW, Hello everyone!! Not been on here for a good while. Been busy!! Just got back from a trip to Hong Kong a couple of weeks ago, and have finally got myself a new job, after nearly 2 years of unemployment!! Nothing special, and not very good pay - about 1/3rd of what I was getting before, but it's a job!! It'll be a good while before I can get a car as good as the T180 again!! I had it for over 4 years now, and I've never had a car tha old before. At least I'm 'stuck' with a Toyota!!

While we're talking about wheels, I'm very angry with myself!! A couple of days after I got back from HK, I drove my car into a kerb coming off a roundabout. Badly scuff one of my 'new' alloys :( and I think the car is pulling to the left a bit too. There wasn't even snow involved!!

[bluevortex]

I haven't seen a blizzard like this before! If it carries on through tonight forget the Rav my house will under snow!

I have to say the Rav has been excellent today and I have tested to the max. I couldn't be happier with how it's performed in the snow so far....

PHA what's all the fuss about.... Daaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnnn Soooooooouuuuuuuth we aint got no snow..... just nice clear roads...... But plenty of road salt stock piled though.... so if you lot up north need any.... just give us a call and we can come to some ££££££££££££££££££££££ arrangement......B) B) B) B) B) B) B) B)

We might just take you up on that offer......

My Vredesteins are going to need to be very good today

[anchorman]

You'll be OK Blue. Nice wheels by the way!!!

[bluevortex]

You'll be OK Blue. Nice wheels by the way!!!

Grantown has been cut off. All roads closed until further notice. You can see in the 2nd picture how long my drive is, through the gates, round past the neighbours house to the main road (approx 100m from where my Rav4 is currently burried). I left it last year when it got this deep and the temperature dropped to -15 degrees, the snow froze and my drive was not accesible for 3 weeks and could not be cleared by shovel. total nightmare. I am going to get started....

Wheels are great Anch, and look nearly as good as the T180 wheels

Blue