Bad Gear Selection

[redrob]

Back again!!! Happy New Year to you all!!!!

Just to say I was approached by a friend last night while out at my local, testing the old grey matter LOL! (quiz night). I was asked if I got my gear box problem sorted? I explaned to him what has happened so far! He replied saying he was talking to his daughter who knows the workshop manager at our local Toyota dealership and apparentley he told her that there had been a few complaints regarding Rav4 gear box problems, but they were trying to keep it hush hush!!! due to the recent bad reputation that Toyota are trying to dig them selves out of.

Not sure if its the dealer or Toyota that are trying to keep things under wraps.

This has now give me a bigger push to write to TGB (for what it may be worth) as we (my wife n I)know that our car is not what is was when we bought it brand new. Even after driving two Rav4's on a comparison test run and finding these two cars were like ours, but not as severe as ours.

We are not convinced that there is not a wide-spread gear box problem!!!!

TGB here I come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

[Craig Simpson]

Hi Dave...........And a Happy New Year to you and your family. I was thinking about you and your problem a couple of day's back, then had to go to work (shifts) and have just got your message.

As you know, got my 2008 Rav4 back on 9th December after they had it for 11 day's, they changed some linkages which they say were worn. After driving it a day I was still finding 1st & 2nd gear extremely difficult to engage, but like you, found it slightly easier when taking time pulling through the gate. Though I generally find, when you are in a hurry, it's not alway's possible to take your time........and I've never had to do this with any other vehicle I've had. Anyway, the car was exactly the same, if not worse. Then had to wait for a courtesy car to be available (Aygo) before it could be booked in again on the 16th December. The Service Manager gave me all the usual Bull.... about thick oil and cold weather and taking your time changing from 1st to 2nd etc..........but the Mechanic, when I said I thought there was a problem with the Gearbox and suggested it might need a complete new one, out of earshot of the Manager said: 'It might come to that'. This time they had the Rav4 8 Day's, from 16th Dec to 23rd Dec. They said they had put a New Hub & Synchro in it and when I asked for a copy of worksheets for work carried out on both occasions, they refused. They said the car was under warranty and therefore I didn't need copies. So I let that go. The Manager said he had test run the car and it was still a 'little bit notchy', but that I should give it 500 miles in order to bed-in. Sadly, my £16,500 Rav4 is still the same and I'm of the opinion that if there isn't a 'Gearbox Problem' I'll show my ***** in Burton's Window.

Overall, it's soured the purchase of my (New to me....) 2008 Toyota Rav4.

Keep me posted on your progress Dave.

Best Wishes,

Craig.

[Sooty torques]

Interesting... I'd guess as Anchorman says that this gearbox "notchiness" (to put it mildly...) is common and an idiosyncratic trait of the RAV4...? Mine has exactly the same 'crunch' from 1st to 2nd ('08 4.3 D4D 26K). If I take my time, almost do a "double-declutch" by wiggling the gearlever in neutral before putting into 2nd, there is no problem. However, if I have to boot it as at some junctions / roundabouts, it sounds like the gearbox is going to spew it's guts out all over the road as I go from 1st to 2nd... Not nice to my mechanically sympathetic ears!

However, from 2nd to 6th up and down all is sweetness and light - so I try to avoid dropping to 1st as often as I can. BTW: Which? mag reviews of the RAV4 always comment on the "notchy gearbox".

[Seth1]

Just to add to all the replies - I have a Rav4 2.2D 4.3 57 plate ... as indicated on here, it is a little notchy from 1st to 2nd - from the day I had it I just accepted that this is a 4x4 and gearbox's on vehicles like this can tend to be a little agricultural.....I never change fast from 1st to 2nd I just let it "feel" the gears in in its own time...the rest of the gears are fine...you can change at a pace if you want.....

I trade the slower change from 1st to 2nd for it being a reliable box overall.....

[redrob]

I have one or two comments to make in reply to one or two of the comments made in this forum (bad gear selection).

Its apparent that one or two people are finding it quite difficult to understand what we are having to experience.

There is a distinct difference between a notchy gear selection and a harsh crunching gear selection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's become very frustrating - Aaaahhhhh!!!!!!!!!! :ffs:

A state of the art high precision piece of machinery, so-called "a gear box". At times it probably would sit more comfortable in a dump truck or some kind of agricultural vehicle, rather than in a family run, on the road vehicle.

The gear box in my brand new Rav4 56 plate (2.2 xtr-4) was perfect!!!!! Had it for 3yrs!!

My brand new Rav4 (2.2 xt-r) 59 plate certainly is not!!!! But it was for approx 10 mths from new!!

You get to know the characteristics of your own car!!

We havn't lost the plot!!

[anchorman]

Okey Dokes redrob, I get the picture

They have done a lot of work to smooth up the gearchange since your 56 plate so to have one that is not behaving like it should is uncommon. So! I guess the problem is internal and is likely to be a faulty synchro or maybe the triple synchros locked up together. It should definitely not have 75W/90 oil in it and that needs to come out but I would make a nuisance of myself at the dealer until he has no option but sort it out just to get rid of you.

[Craig Simpson]

Off back to Toyota Dealer today with my "Bad Gear Selection" 2008 Rav4 after it was last in and had a New Hub & Synchro fitted. I was sent packing with the problem NO different after this work and advised to give it 500 miles or so to "Bed-In". Well, it's been 700 miles now and nothing has changed whatsoever after new linkages and hub/synchro. My wrist constantly hurts with the 'crunching' vibration that is caused just trying to engage 2nd gear. When asked what they are going to do the local Vantage Toyota franchise said............"We'll have another look".

I said to the Service Manager that in my opinion I have either got a "Rogue" Rav4 with a Gearbox related problem or there is a problem across the Rav4 range.........He pleaded Ignorence !!!!!!!

I'll keep you posted.

Craig in a very Cloudy Burnley.

[kieran rav4.3]

Hi all. My RAV is an 07 with 60K on the clock. Its had a clunky box from 1st to 2nd gear since i brought it last year. I was initially concerned but now I have just learned to live with it. I find that by keeping my foot depressed on the clutch for a little longer and letting 2nd gear find its place works for me. I dont like the sound it makes when sometimes i have to make a quick get away and have to hear and feel it crunch into place!! I cant believe that a car this prestigeous has such a terrible gear change?! I still love it though. I had a 4.2 on a 05 before this one which was nicer to drive but not so refined.

[Craig Simpson]

Hi all. My RAV is an 07 with 60K on the clock. Its had a clunky box from 1st to 2nd gear since i brought it last year. I was initially concerned but now I have just learned to live with it. I find that by keeping my foot depressed on the clutch for a little longer and letting 2nd gear find its place works for me. I dont like the sound it makes when sometimes i have to make a quick get away and have to hear and feel it crunch into place!! I cant believe that a car this prestigeous has such a terrible gear change?! I still love it though. I had a 4.2 on a 05 before this one which was nicer to drive but not so refined.

[Craig Simpson]

Hi Kieran,

It sounds just like mine, I too have found it has to find 2nd gear itself so to speak. The 'Prestige' is somewhat tarnished I must say, especially when it frequently crunches into gear. I think the reason I can't accept this happens is I've never pushed the boat out and spent so much on what I perceived would be a vehicle I'd keep for years........hence my disappointment. On a more positive note, like you I love the vehicle and this is why I have been attempting to resolve this 'one' complaint. The good news is, Toyota are attempting to go through the motions of sorting it after much knocking at the door of the franchise. The latest is: after having put new linkages in the gearbox, then a new hub/synchro.........today they said they have accepted there is a problem (yippee......not crackers), and they are to replace the clutch tomorrow in an effort to eliminate the problem. So, fingers crossed..........we'll see !

Best Wishes,

Craig.

[redrob]

Hi craig

I dont mean to tarnish your hopes before you get your car back, but I have had a full clutch and fly wheel replacement (£2000.00 job)and this made no difference to mine what-so-ever!

In fact mine went worse! 1st gear went very stiff and uncomfortable, 2nd gear was the same, if not worse. Then after the next visit to the dealer the gears went back to the way they were at the start of all this. Strange Eh!!!!

Thats if they had done that £2000 job in the first place!!!!!!

My opinion and that of one or two other people in the trade Ive spoke to, mine has had more of a cluth adjustment rather than a replacement!

I hope you have a better result with yours mate.

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!

[Craig Simpson]

Hi craig

I dont mean to tarnish your hopes before you get your car back, but I have had a full clutch and fly wheel replacement (£2000.00 job)and this made no difference to mine what-so-ever!

In fact mine went worse! 1st gear went very stiff and uncomfortable, 2nd gear was the same, if not worse. Then after the next visit to the dealer the gears went back to the way they were at the start of all this. Strange Eh!!!!

Thats if they had done that £2000 job in the first place!!!!!!

My opinion and that of one or two other people in the trade Ive spoke to, mine has had more of a cluth adjustment rather than a replacement!

I hope you have a better result with yours mate.

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!

[Craig Simpson]

Hi Dave,

It's getting me down all this RAV4 nonsense.........The bl--dy car went in on Monday noon and the Manager said he would have the clutch on Tuesday, ring me later that day with a progress report and also said he was committed to sorting it out. Got to Friday at 5pm and still no phonecall or any contact. My wife then rang them and asked why nobody had phoned, the Service Manager said he hadn't phoned as he didn't want to bother us until he knew what was happening..............WHAT ? He then went on to say he was coming in on Saturday to work on getting our car sorted, so she asked him for a progress update on Sat before 1pm as we were in work............Saturday, NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING !!!!

How long does it take to put in a clutch ? And I'm sure this 'JOEY' of a Rav4 will be no different after. Where or where do you go to get some proper Consumer Advice...........Trading Standards ? Surely what we are going through cannot be the way to treat customers. I'd expect this from a Backstreet Garage but never dreamed a High Street Toyota Dealer could treat people like this.

They have now had my Rav4 a 'WHOLE MONTH' since it was purchased on 1st November 2010, whilst for that whole month I've driven a Toyota Aygo.

DISGRACEFUL CUSTOMER CARE.

Just having a Guinness to drown my sorrows............lol

Craig

[GS John]

It's getting me down all this RAV4 nonsense.........The bl--dy car went in on Monday noon and the Manager said he would have the clutch on Tuesday, ring me later that day with a progress report and also said he was committed to sorting it out. Got to Friday at 5pm and still no phonecall or any contact. My wife then rang them and asked why nobody had phoned, the Service Manager said he hadn't phoned as he didn't want to bother us until he knew what was happening..............WHAT ? He then went on to say he was coming in on Saturday to work on getting our car sorted, so she asked him for a progress update on Sat before 1pm as we were in work............Saturday, NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING !!!!

How long does it take to put in a clutch ? Craig

Must be a NW England problem similar lack of calls on updates etc. It takes about a day for the clutch fit, if you light a bonfire underneath them!

Had the "courtesy" call this weekend about my cars clutch replacement, when asked what score I'd give them out of 10 ( Mr T looks for 7 and above) I said one as zero was not an option. My wife is getting a call from the after sales manager today :D

redrob, have you asked to see the parts they changed ;)

[Craig Simpson]

It's getting me down all this RAV4 nonsense.........The bl--dy car went in on Monday noon and the Manager said he would have the clutch on Tuesday, ring me later that day with a progress report and also said he was committed to sorting it out. Got to Friday at 5pm and still no phonecall or any contact. My wife then rang them and asked why nobody had phoned, the Service Manager said he hadn't phoned as he didn't want to bother us until he knew what was happening..............WHAT ? He then went on to say he was coming in on Saturday to work on getting our car sorted, so she asked him for a progress update on Sat before 1pm as we were in work............Saturday, NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING !!!!

How long does it take to put in a clutch ? Craig

Must be a NW England problem similar lack of calls on updates etc. It takes about a day for the clutch fit, if you light a bonfire underneath them!

Had the "courtesy" call this weekend about my cars clutch replacement, when asked what score I'd give them out of 10 ( Mr T looks for 7 and above) I said one as zero was not an option. My wife is getting a call from the after sales manager today :D

redrob, have you asked to see the parts they changed ;)

[Craig Simpson]

GS John & Redrob (Dave)

Phonecall this lunchtime whilst out and about in 'Aygo'............Toyota Vantage Group in Colne would like to arrange to meet us at 1pm to discuss some 'options'. Arrived to be then greeted by the 'Sales' chap who sold us the car in the first place. Apparently he was so P'd off at how we had been treated he had asked to personally manage our situation (Yeh right).

He then went on to say: "He knew we were not happy with our car but that all the Rav4's had the SAME PROBLEM, the only difference being, SOME had it WORSE THAN OTHERS". I think my jaw must have fell on the floor at this point !!!!!!!!!!

I pointed out I only wanted a Rav4 which did not have this problem, or I would like my money back to go back to the drawing board. He wasn't authorized to refund monies he said, then steared away from that to point out that equally they couldn't get their hands on any Ravs.

The offer then became about getting us into another car as they still wanted our business, no mention of our £16,500 Rav4 and the 'New Clutch' solving the problem.....or not ! They were prepared to swap our 2008 Rav4 2.2 Diesel with 26,000 miles for a '59' plate 1.4 D4D Urban Cruiser with 14,111 miles and for sale at £15,500.............And so wanted to know what I thought. I said I had never wanted an Urban Cruiser and that was why I'd bought a Rav4. He replied by then saying he would make it his mission in the next few day's to scour the earth for one of those Rav4's that they couldn't get their hands on a few moments ago.

GS John.......1 out of ten means you are more than generous mate.

It's true what they say about all 'Sales People' :ffs:

[cooper109]

This all very worring ive bought a 2008 with the same prob i took it back they said there was nothing wrong! has anybody come up with a solution?

[Mistermena]

Reading this thread and can't believe that a dealer would be daft enough to place the wrong oil in a gearbox!!! I had the same problem with crunching into 2nd gear when cold on my Avensis T-180. So I searched for a straight 75w oil and came up with Silkolene Pro SRG (Racing gearbox oil) ester oil. Put it into the box and I've never had a problem since getting it into 1st when cold or any more crunches into 2nd.

Just a point that Forte produce a product called "Diff and gear treatment" that I've used in my VW Polo TDi (Because it was crunching into 3rd) and that worked a treat. I've not used it in my T-180 as the ester oil did the trick for me...

[cooper109]

Im going to bet its the gear linkage cables because of what was on one of the other threds the grease has gone like bubble gum ! if i come up to a stop drop into 3rd then 1st then into 2nd its beautiful but 1st then 2nd crunch! it would eplain maybe if you change slowly the cables get more time to move proberly and then a nice 1st to 2nd this is only thoery mind ive emailed mr t lets see what he says!

[Tech01]

I've just been browsing some of the earlier correspondence about difficult gear-shifting, in particular problems in getting out of 1st and into 2nd. Anchorman is 100% correct in insisting that we avoid heavy grades of gearbox oil.

A long time ago (1940s, 50s...) it was common for manual boxes in cars and light vehicles to use SAE90-grade oils, and some worn boxes were even run on 140-grade! However, since the 1970s, and with the emergence of the first 5-speed boxes, engineering and machining tolerances have improved hugely. I once put some 90-grade oil in a 1980s Rover SD1 5-speed box (as per Rover advice). Result? - totally impossible to get out of 1st gear! The cure, then, was to run these manual boxes on ATF (auto transmission fluid).

Today we have available a wide range of Manual Transmission Fluids, specially designed for the high 'spot'(EP)loads present in modern, tight-tolerance, multi-speed boxes. If you take a look at www.castrol.com, you'll find their range of these lubricants. For the RAV, go for either VMX 80 (75W-80) or Syntrans (75W-85), but nothing heavier.

I've used Manual Transmission Fluids for years now, in my own 2003 RAV4.2 D4D, as well as in numerous Citroens and Rovers. In every case, gear shifting improved no end, especially in cold weather.

[CharlieFarlie]

I would value Anchs view on putting anything other than the specified oil into the Ravs Gearbox ?????

Wee Charlie

[anchorman]

The trouble is that the box is loaded with all sorts of materials including special metals, plastics and rubber.

The proper straight 75W is hellish expensive but it proves to provide a perfectly acceptable change on later models and if anything goes wrong long term then we have seen that Toyota will extend warranties. My feeling is that this only applies with the correct oil.

I have heard of people adding this Redline ATF but not for me I'm afraid. I did once try 75W90 in my red RAV but after a couple of days of having both feet on the dash to get it out of gear when cold it was promptly drained.

[CharlieFarlie]

Is there any gain in getting the existing correct oil replaced for fresh oil ?? I'm asking as I may book the car in for service next week as I'm in the Midlands and would like the Dealer that replaced the engine to do a full service while I'm there ......

I find the change on My car very good indeed but just wondered if its a good idea ???

Thanks.

Wee Charlie.

[MarsKy]

Honestjohn discusses gearbox oil change: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/rav4-2006/?section=bad

" Gearchange quality of T180 manual improverd by LV75WMT gear oil."

And have a general read too: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/rav4-2000/?section=bad

(I don't get the formatting options on tablet to make URLs - tried non mobile set but not working for me)

[Tech01]

Am in complete agreement with Anchorman. Straight (mono-grade) oils are expensive, as they have to be brewed to stay "in grade" whatever the operating conditions. 75W-90 is 75 when cold, and 90 when hot, and 90 is rather heavy (in my experience) for many tight-tolerance modern boxes, especially in the winter.

Gear oil is commonly available as 75W-90, 75W-85 and 75W-80 . . . and there is quite a difference in viscosity between 80 and 90. To avoid the (probably unnecessary) expense of a straight 75 (75W-75!!!), even if you can find it, 75W-80 is a good choice. I've just bought 5-litres of it (GL-5 spec) for 30EUR, which isn't prohibitive.

Chris Gregory