Electronic Parking Brake - Why?

[RK123456]

I have an early 2009 Avensis 2.0 diesel tourer as a company car, the mileage is now over 60k miles.

Last weekend as I drove it off my drive, I got a warning "Parking Brake System Fault" I took the car to my local Toyots dealer, all credit to them, they put it straight into their workshop and within 30 minutes told me that it needed a new actuator and they had reset the ECU. This saturday, the new actuator had arrived and my local Toyota dealer fitted it, When the job was finished, I enquired about the cost of the repair (the car is a lease car) and was told the actuator was £675 plus 2 to 2.1/2 hours labour plus VAT, approximately £1,000.

The question I ask is why are maunfacturers replacing simple proven handbrake lever & cable technology with electronic systems that are expensive to fix? Toyota are not alone, electronic parking brakes are now fitted to the VW Passat and Vauxhall Astra & Insignia.

I fear a scenario when cars such as the Avensis are 6 or 7 years old, an item such as a parking brake actuator fails leading to the car owner thinking that it is not worth spending £1,000 on a repair & either scrapping the car or getting rid at auction. I was thinking that my car would make a good car for my son (at the end of the lease, we are given the chance to buy the car) but the cost of the parking brake repair has put me off.

If I was looking for a car for myself as a private buyer, I would look for something with simple proven technology and less gizmos to go wrong. Having said that, I think the Avensis is a fantastic car and would not hesitate in having another as a company car.

[T Sport 1978]

Hi RK,

I have been on this board asking about the avensis as a prospective buyer, all of the feedback has been very positive and I am still definitely considering it. But I agree with you and have my reservations on the electronic hand brake, to be fair though you are the first negative feedback so far.

My friends Passat has the same feature and it has been a problem for him, especially in the very cold.

[dawesy]

obviously its going to cost more but problems should be few and far between. mines been fine and its -10 outside at the mo.

do find it advantage when doing hill starts as you can leave it on and pull away, the handbrake releasing automatically (i have a manual transmission, )

[Jan&tone]

I never use my parking brake when putting my Prius in the garage, and the handbrake on my Wife's Aygo stays off when it's parked overnight too - The Prius automatically goes into 'P' and the Aygo gets put in reverse...

No problems with brake failing or sticking

[Parts-King]

If we applied the "Expensive to repair" theory we would have no new cars on the road!

Have you ever priced injectors, radio units, ECU's and some trims like headlining? They are all VERY expensive.

Yes I hear what you are saying but ALL modern cars are going to far more expensive to repair in the future, comparing them to cars of yesteryear is comparing chalk and cheese

Kingo

[Jan&tone]

Have you ever priced injectors, radio units, ECU's and some trims like headlining? They are all VERY expensive.

We had our old Suzuki Alto broken into a few years ago, 'only' the radio was stolen and the side window was covered by the window insurance, BUT - the excess was 200 quid and the radio was priced by Suzuki at 230 !!!! - we replaced it from Halfords for 60 - same radio too!

so it's not just Toyota that is expensive for repairs/replacements....

[Parts-King]

We are all so used to modern cars, the comforts they bring, and the latest security and gadegtry they afford

The electronic handbrake is not new on a modern car by any means, the German marques have used them for a while. Those types of componants by there very nature will be more expensive to repair than a broken cable, but if you look at just the humble handbrake over the years, you will know they are now very good indeed. Remember the bad old days of seized linkages, frozen cables and handbrake quadrants that had to be oiled every 3 months in order for them not to become seized?

Progress indeed but it does come at a price

Kingo

[arthurpint]

I have an early 2009 Avensis 2.0 diesel tourer as a company car, the mileage is now over 60k miles.

Last weekend as I drove it off my drive, I got a warning "Parking Brake System Fault" I took the car to my local Toyots dealer, all credit to them, they put it straight into their workshop and within 30 minutes told me that it needed a new actuator and they had reset the ECU. This saturday, the new actuator had arrived and my local Toyota dealer fitted it, When the job was finished, I enquired about the cost of the repair (the car is a lease car) and was told the actuator was £675 plus 2 to 2.1/2 hours labour plus VAT, approximately £1,000.

The question I ask is why are maunfacturers replacing simple proven handbrake lever & cable technology with electronic systems that are expensive to fix? Toyota are not alone, electronic parking brakes are now fitted to the VW Passat and Vauxhall Astra & Insignia.

I fear a scenario when cars such as the Avensis are 6 or 7 years old, an item such as a parking brake actuator fails leading to the car owner thinking that it is not worth spending £1,000 on a repair & either scrapping the car or getting rid at auction. I was thinking that my car would make a good car for my son (at the end of the lease, we are given the chance to buy the car) but the cost of the parking brake repair has put me off.

If I was looking for a car for myself as a private buyer, I would look for something with simple proven technology and less gizmos to go wrong. Having said that, I think the Avensis is a fantastic car and would not hesitate in having another as a company car.

[arthurpint]

Hi

I rather like the electronic parking brake but to be honest it is different, I would be interested to know if one needs to manually switch it on and then manually switch off ?

I believe that one does not need to switch off as it automatically switches off when you begin to accelerate which is useful on a hill.

Anyone with advice on that fact please.

[Crustynuggets]

As I've mentioned in other threads, I like the function, I just don't like the positioning of the button. Naturally I understand it needs to be in a place where it doesn't get activated accidently, but I hate it right in front of my left knee.

I'm not sure why, but it doesn't automatically release on my car, which is CVT. Seems weird that the fucntion is there on the manuals but not on the autos.

[RK123456]

Thanks for all the replies, I will attempt to clarify my point.

A conventional Lever & Cable handbrake syatem is simple proven technology and fairly reliable apart from the cable snapping and freezing on in extreme cold weather and is relatively inexpensive to repair.

Motor manufacturere are replacing this system with an electronic system with the obvious advantage of freeing up interior space so the interior can be designed without the need for a handbrake lever between the seats but what other advantages does an electronic parking brake system bring?

I realise that the actuators are reliable and I guess 95% of them will still be working when the cars to which they are fitted are scrapped but another scenario is: Mr Not Much Money in say 8 years time, buys a used Avensis possibly an ex company car, 8 or 9 years old, runs it and is pleased with it, one day a parking brake actuator fails and he is faced with a repair bill of £1,000. I have had a handbrake cable snap in the past and the repair cost £60, it's a matter of perceived value £60 to fix a handbrake yes, £1,000 to fix a handbrake (I refer to it as a handbrake because it performs the same function)

I am all for progress & development of new features in cars, what I find hard to understand is taking a perfectly good system (lever & cable handbrake) and replacing it with a more complex system (electronic parking brake) for purely cosmetic interior design purposes.

[Parts-King]

I am all for progress & development of new features in cars, what I find hard to understand is taking a perfectly good system (lever & cable handbrake) and replacing it with a more complex system (electronic parking brake) for purely cosmetic interior design purposes.

I don't think it has been done purely for cosmetic reasons, for instance, it is an advancment that allows for controlled hill starts automatically

You could apply your theory to most parts of the car, for instance, the old fasioned diesel pump / injectors / glow pugs did a reasonable enough job, however these days you have very high pressure pumps and injectors that are very expensive to repair / replace and have to be programmed into your car, you cannot swap one over to another car without re-programming it in to the other car. The upside is you have a system capable of much more fuel efficiency, lower emissions etc, but far far more costly to fix 8 years down the line

Kingo

[Crustynuggets]

Well here's an update....

My handbrake failed today. I went to the dealers who diagnosed a duff actuator. Luckily I'm still in warranty (just!) so it is being fixed Wednesday.

I do hope this isn't a common problem on this model Avensis.......

[Jamesbelfast]

Personally if I had the choice I wouldn't have an electronic handbrake about me.

Yes it's a nice bells and whistles addition but if I ever get to the point where I can't carry out a hill.handbrake start using my own driving skills then it would be time to give up driving.

One other aspect of the electronic system concerns me. Say for instance the handbrake mechanism seized or froze will the electric actuator sense their was a problem and cut-out or keep trying until it burnt out as has happened on other makes. Until the sytem has the same reliability and working life span I would prefer to stick to the good old yank and pull system any day - preferably using drum brakes.

I almost get the suspicion that car manufacturers modernise cars in such a way that they will get every opportunity to rip us off once warranty has expired.

Call me old fashioned but if it ain't broke why keep fixing it until it breaks.

[toylexus]

Hi RK

Im totally with you on this. Ive been called out 3 times to a vw passat that has locked tight on a hill, had to be pulled off the road, theres no quick fix, got called out to a renault scenic stuck on a hill too, they have a red handle in the boot that you can pull to release the brake, once its pulled its £500 instantly to repair.

There a nightmare, id never buy a car with them on it, personally speaking its all a racket to get more money out of the motorist as with all the other needless gadgets that can leave you stranded.

[Cml24]

Try the hand brake in a merc! It's got a semi-automatic hand brake function on the normal footbrake, a forth pedal to put the handbrake on and ANOTHER lever to take it off by your knee!!!!

It's rubbish.

I've had an old mini all my life, and been used to simple, very cheap new parts. Only in the last year have I bought a ten year old Yaris, and ten year old Avensis, so I've had to figure out different ways of fixing them!

For example, I've just replaced the rear hub, brake backplate, wheel cylinder, brake shoes, drum, and the adjusters inside on the yaris. It was £40 for all of that from a scrapped car on eBay. If that was new it'd be hundreds.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, in seven years time, when said handbrake actuator failed, I expect someone (like me at least) would get one from a scrapped car for £50.

Ways of gettign round things most of the time.

[Jas16]

It all depends on what we like or not. Apart from Insignia's I've used as hire cars, I've never owned a car with the electronic parking brake. More of a novelty item more than anything else. Bit like Jaguar with their revolving gear shifter. I'm one of those people that will wait for a while maybe a few more years for any issues to iron themself out then go for it.

On another note though, we must remember that owning anything will have some repair cost associated with it, so we must be prepared...if we can't afford to replace an expensive item, should we really keep a car? two ways to look at that. Bit like owning a pet, should we really keep one if we are not prepared to look after it.

Like any product, its the 'looking after' period that is the more expensive proposition. I know this sounds a bit harsh but its the way I see things, in as much black and white as I can.

My only other reservation will be that there are a greater number of expensive parts being fitted with every new model...but then there are scrapyards, just won't see many Toyotas in them, hopefully

[Bemused2]

The thing that gets me is the price of parts from the manufacturer. £695 for an actuator , they must churn them out by the thousand. £1000 plus for an E.C.U, wonder how much it costs to make. Hundreds of pounds for plastic body bits etc etc.

Seems they have a monopoly and charge accordingly.

The most silly thing I have come across is the start procedure in the Honda Accord. Put the key in as normal, turn, then go to a start botton and press. Why,

[Cml24]

Yeah, I don't get the price sometimes.

Speed sensor for a mk1 yaris from toyota, £300.

From eBay (USA), including shipping to the UK, £40.

Someone can make the relatively simple part for £10-£20, sell it for £30, and ship it for another £10.

Not £300.

[joeegg]

Totally agree with original post .

mine had to be replaced at 21k .

an unnecessary gimmick in my opinion but one i have got used to.

[Jas16]

One extreme measure would be keep hold of old cars. One of my dream cars would be to do a kit car and keeping everything as simple as possible. It does worry me with the amount of electronics though as well, does increase the likelihood of a car going into limp home mode. Also for even minor issues having to plug into a machine to read off codes. In some ways I do prefer the hands on labour approach

[Jamesbelfast]

I think it will be only a matter of time before a few companies will either find a way of manufacturing these expensive items cheaply or someone does a recondtioning service.

I know of one guy who has a Reanult and the handbrake actuator failed. The stealership wanted £1600 for replacing, etc. He took the damaged unit apart and found the cables had failed and having expeience of working at classic cars sent it off to a UK comopany that makes cables to your own spec. £50 later he was back in action. Better still the replacement cables were stainless.

Similar companies have set up repir services for ECU's, electrci steering units, etc, etc.

In reference to ECU's. My mate works for a missile company and when the ECU died on his bosses German car failed he asked him to draw up an identical electrical design and aks a company in the far east to quote a price for manufacture. Within a week he was quoted $40 a piece if he ordered a minmum of 100 units.

I'm all for a companies making a profit but when they rip the A$$ out if it - it makes me angry.