Is The Time Right To Petition Toyota Uk?

[harleymlb]

Dear Rav 4 T180 owners.

Is the time right to start a petition to put us out of our misery?

As we all know there has been a huge amount of discussion on this forum about the dreaded BSR system. Initially it seemed a good idea and it appeared that both TOYOTA and independent tyre dealers were going to invest in the equipment to maintain the T180 and this Runflat system. As we all know Toyota have "binned" this cutting edge technology now, and there is no longer any model present or planned that is going to use this system!

As the "special" machinery wears out and parts need replacing can we honestly believe that Toyota and independant tyre dealers will continue to invest in this experiment? I doubt it! Speaking with a mate of mine who works in a tyre dealer that until recently could change the tyres on the T180, he informed me that the machine just is not worth the expense of repairing it, he can count on one hand the number of times it has been used in the last 12 months!

So there you have it, should/can we campaign for an alternative solution to this much reported problem (on this site!) to what is generally a great car. Perhaps some of the "expert" moderators and contrubutors can take our case forward to Toyota, can we complain to trading standards or even "watchdog"?

One day we may all end up with a car that we will not be able to sell ever again unless we carry out our own DIY modifications! COME ON TOYOTA DO THE DECENT THING..Please.

[three5]

Dear Rav 4 T180 owners.

Is the time right to start a petition to put us out of our misery?

As we all know there has been a huge amount of discussion on this forum about the dreaded BSR system. Initially it seemed a good idea and it appeared that both TOYOTA and independent tyre dealers were going to invest in the equipment to maintain the T180 and this Runflat system. As we all know Toyota have "binned" this cutting edge technology now, and there is no longer any model present or planned that is going to use this system!

As the "special" machinery wears out and parts need replacing can we honestly believe that Toyota and independant tyre dealers will continue to invest in this experiment? I doubt it! Speaking with a mate of mine who works in a tyre dealer that until recently could change the tyres on the T180, he informed me that the machine just is not worth the expense of repairing it, he can count on one hand the number of times it has been used in the last 12 months!

So there you have it, should/can we campaign for an alternative solution to this much reported problem (on this site!) to what is generally a great car. Perhaps some of the "expert" moderators and contrubutors can take our case forward to Toyota, can we complain to trading standards or even "watchdog"?

One day we may all end up with a car that we will not be able to sell ever again unless we carry out our own DIY modifications! COME ON TOYOTA DO THE DECENT THING..Please.

A statement from Toyota that the wheels can safely be used with standard tyres after the support rings have been removed would help a lot. It would cost them nothing other than some credibility but would mean that the T180's would not be a white elephant to their current owners.

[local hero]

Both Toyota + bridgestones are well aware of our displeasure with the BSR system and i know that Anchorman has in the past asked for a meeting with both parties, the fact that Toyota have now abandoned this system is proof in itself that this Trial at our expense has been a complete failure, in these days of litigation I do not think Toyota are going to make a statement saying its safe to remove the support ring, this would leave them wide open in the event of any tyre related accident, we all know the tyres + rims are just standard (although i believe the tyres are marked) the only difference is the support ring, which once removed without any damage to the rim, should allow the safe fitment of any suitable tyre of your choice, i know if I had a T/SR 180 this is what i would do at the very first opportunity Stew

[bothwell_buyer]

Trading standards or watchdog may or may not take the case up. In real terms, how many people have been affected truly, and compare it to the run flat problems with other car manufacturers - BMW and Porsche for example. What you need is what Stu suggested - a statement from a car engineer that its safe to fit ornary tyres to the brute.

[mikis]

Hi everyone

I think that if toyota is correct has to come up with an explanation to all of us that have the BSR system,since it has abandoned it(The new is using 235/55/18 normal tyres with tyrefit kit).This type of car is been selling also in germany and italy as far as i know, and maybe to other countries.That means that we are not few.

This winter i bougt winter tyres BLIZZAK.They were manufactured in 2007!

Will they be able to support BSR in ,lets say, five years from nkow?

I dont want to think of selling the car in few years from know.You try to explain the bsr system to the person that wants to buy it, and you see him runaway like a scared rabit.

Anyway i try to enjoy it for the rest of the hollyday what besides that stupid system is a great car!!

Best wishes to everyone for 2011

[wardude]

I think Watchdog is a good idea as I think Toyota will just laugh at us and say tough.

[anchorman]

A more constructive approach would be to ask for a meeting. You'll get nothing if you make a fuss in public.

[harleymlb]

A more constructive approach would be to ask for a meeting. You'll get nothing if you make a fuss in public.

Hi Anchorman,

As a "figurehead" for this forum would you condider taking this issue forward to Toyota? If they are prepared to give you an "Official Respose" we can prepare our case based on it.

I had an email prepared an ready to send to BBC Watchdog with the issue on the abandoned BSR system.

If you look at the Watchdog Website you will see they are always looking for a story to research.

We would only need to provide the salient points their own researchers would do the rest (with a link to this forum!)

However before i sent it i also thought along your sentiment. The other issue to be mindfull of is that if we bring this out into the publlic domain, those owners of the T180 may not ever sell them on again!

We could be caught over a barrell so to speak.

[anchorman]

They have already offered to meet with me on this subject but the venue was at the head office in Gt Burgh which is a days travelling for me. They said they would try to find somewhere further up this way (maybe Burnaston) but as I changed my job I never pushed it. I am willing to open it again if you like but it will depend on us being able to fins a suitable date.

I personally think that IF you could get one of the media programs onboard it would only shoot owners in the foot. You/we should try to open up some dialogue to resolve some issues. Equally, you can't expect miracles either but lets keep an open mind.

Do you want me to contact them again?

[harleymlb]

They have already offered to meet with me on this subject but the venue was at the head office in Gt Burgh which is a days travelling for me. They said they would try to find somewhere further up this way (maybe Burnaston) but as I changed my job I never pushed it. I am willing to open it again if you like but it will depend on us being able to fins a suitable date.

I personally think that IF you could get one of the media programs onboard it would only shoot owners in the foot. You/we should try to open up some dialogue to resolve some issues. Equally, you can't expect miracles either but lets keep an open mind.

Do you want me to contact them again?

I am sure the are the appropiate person to lead on this.

Before you commit yourself on behalf of the owners of the Rav4 T180, can I suggest that you "Pin" a petition or a mini ballot (do we have faith in the BSR etc..) on the forum so the owners of the vehicle can add there names to in support of this quest. At least then you and I would know if there is solid support. Toyota should be pointed in the direction of this forum so they can see for themselves that this BSR system is one of the major gripes/debates on which is otherwise a fine motor vehicle.

Owners should be made aware that in the not to distant future they may have considerable trouble sorting out problems relating to punctures and tyre replacement. Imagine trying to sell a car that you cannot get tyres repairs easily carried out..If they think its bad now what will it be like in 3 years?

Perhaps an amicable approach might persuede Toyota to come up with a satisfactory solution.

I am more than willing to help where I can, you can put me at the top of the "petition".

Go on put it to them what harm can It do......

Regards

Mark.

[Airbusfan]

I would think that SR180 owners are affected in the same way so dont forget to mention them.

Regards

Howard

[wardude]

id be quite content if they could turn the TPMS light if asked to do so

[three5]

id be quite content if they could turn the TPMS light if asked to do so

I don't own a '180 so this post is a bit of a cheek really. However, I run an aftermarket TPMS with ordinary tyres on my xt5 with no problem. It has already saved me a tyre when it registered a slow puncture. I don't see why the Toyota TPMS should not work perfectly well with standard tyres - you just have to warn the tyre fitter that the system is fitted and they should be able to change tyres without damaging it. The key to the problem as I see it is Toyota admitting that you can safely fit standard tyres on the "runflat" rims. We know people are doing it and there is no problem as far as we can tell. If Toyota would endorse this as a safe procedure the problem disappears and the future value of the '180's is assured. It would also considerably reduce the running costs of these cars.

If Toyota really wanted to renew customer confidence they could design and market a "spacesaver" spare as an accessory for the whole of the 4.3 range. So long as the cost was not too exorbitant I could see them selling like hot cakes. As an accessory they would not have to be part of the vehicle when they were doing their fuel consumption tests and the extra cost would be borne by the customer IF THEY WANTED ONE. I'd be top of the list as a customer for one and having seen some of the posts on this forum, I think that I would have to fight for that position.

[local hero]

Having had a little bit of experience with the press/media i am very cautious of this approach, whatever is said to them they will edit or sensationalise in order to make a story, you will never get fair representation & IMHO will only create another de'bacle like the Accelerator problems, this is not to say it should be swept under the carpet if i had these RFs i would be annoyed as well, but lets approach Toyota first and see if we cannot get some kind of a statement of intent from them and at least give them a right to reply first. Just my opinion for what its worth Stew...

[Michelin]

Hi guys I have just bought a T180 and I love it to bits but am very concerned about this tyre problem as I have been quoted £245 per tyre fitted.I would love it if someone on this forum could give me an address of a garage that could take the rings off my wheels and fit new tyres without affecting the warning light on the dash.If someone can steer me in the right direction then I will be eternally greatfull dont mind travelling to get the job done right.

[anchorman]

I can assure you that they were made aware of all the RFT concerns and my list of suggested solutions. We know it is an emotive subject here on the forum but as we have discussed before, it is often the emotive subjects that bring people here in the first place and from what I understand the RFTs don't generate a high percentage of customer complaints to TGB.

I will avoid going to Great Burgh as it is 9-10 hours on top of a day and £70 in fuel for me and I am reluctant to delegate it as someone "expressing their emotions" will get us nowhere so it really depends on them meeting me this side of the M25. Let me dig out my old correspondence and raise it with them again.

EDIT; OK, the request has gone. Give them chance to get back to work - perhaps the middle of the week we might have something.

[harleymlb]

I can assure you that they were made aware of all the RFT concerns and my list of suggested solutions. We know it is an emotive subject here on the forum but as we have discussed before, it is often the emotive subjects that bring people here in the first place and from what I understand the RFTs don't generate a high percentage of customer complaints to TGB.

I will avoid going to Great Burgh as it is 9-10 hours on top of a day and £70 in fuel for me and I am reluctant to delegate it as someone "expressing their emotions" will get us nowhere so it really depends on them meeting me this side of the M25. Let me dig out my old correspondence and raise it with them again.

EDIT; OK, the request has gone. Give them chance to get back to work - perhaps the middle of the week we might have something.

Ok Anchorman, Keep us all posted with any progress. I must admit i thought we would have had more posts on this thread with what we are trying to acomplish!

[anchorman]

There is one in the pinned section as well!

[sywy]

Thanks for your support of us '180 owners, Anchs. I'm prepared to put my name down on a petition, or whatever is needed.

[wardude]

yeah cheers Anchs.Nnything I can do just ask. Happy to help if I can

[freestyle]

Count me in as well

[Manxrav]

Good comment Stew, I personally am not a fan of the current format of Watchdog, I think that the provocative approach of the main lady presenter does nothing to enhance the programme.It would put you on the back foot as an approach to ToyotaUK and probably ruin any futher debate on the subject. An approach from the sensible people on this forum would be better.

My two penath

Regards Clare

[SandroFR]

Hi everyone,

I am a new comer to this forum. I live in France and recently bought a T180. We obviously have the same amount of frustration over here regarding the BSR system which I will not qualify in public as I would probably end up in court. Anyway, I have done a lot of research on this side of the channel and to cut a long story short, there are some dealers (probably a handful across the whole country) who accept to remove the ring and fit "normal" tyres. The cost is shockingly high (900 GBP for 4 BR Dueler including labor) but it's either that or putting new BSRs on an average 300 GBP a piece!

Interestingly enough, one of the Rav4 France Club member enquired to the french equivalent of the DVLA whether those stupid BSRs were part of the technical specification of the car and apparently they are not. So technically a change to normal tyres without modifying the spec of the car is possible. Added to the fact that there are some dealers (although not many) who are willing to do it, I would assume that whoever says it is not possible to remove these BSRs has an interest in doing so (I suppose when you have bought a very expensive piece of machinery, you want a return on your investment.....).

Also, the French trading standards Agency was contacted by the same Rav4 France Club member who put a case to them for what is nothing but a monopolistic situation butafter review, they came back indicating that the monopoly was not proven. Don't know what more they want but anyway. I will add that it seems Toyota France were contacted several times via mail and phone but declined to respond.

I hope this helps a little. Any help required in your actions in the UK, please let me know as I travel to the UK on a monthly basis for work.

Cheers,

S

[Bernie H]

You can certainly count on my support in any capacity. My thoughts on the Watchdog senario is that it is a double edged sword as previously mentioned. We need the right sort of publicity, not confrontational, as I think watchdog would generate. My preference would be Top Gear, but I doubt they would take it up.

Just my penny worth.

Bern

[allycomet]

You can certainly count on my support in any capacity. My thoughts on the Watchdog senario is that it is a double edged sword as previously mentioned. We need the right sort of publicity, not confrontational, as I think watchdog would generate. My preference would be Top Gear, but I doubt they would take it up.

Just my penny worth.

Bern

Yeh, maybe they could try to drive 3 T180's through the Amazon jungle without ripping a tyre

and then the challenge of finding a South American firm to replace said item :D :D