Mmt Box How Is Yours?

[Geriatric]

I have a 107 which is said to have a 2 Tronic box which is in fact the Toyota MMT box. I have had the car a year from new and when I first got it the box had slight creep when engaging drive or reverse. This did not last and the box functioned pretty well but when it changed down to first there was a sense of a judder probably due to the big drop in gearing. In situations in traffic fist/second /first was the box at its worst. This could be got round by starting in second in manual mode when the box would stay in second. One big problem the box developed was it would sometimes whem manoeuvering fail to engage first or reverse and then engage with a big lurch as the revs had built up. This was put right by Peugeot with merely some adjustment and for a short period slight creep returned and the changes down to 1 seemed much improved. However it has again very occasionally started failing to engage first or reverse when manoeuvering in certain situations like when the car is rolling in gear and the clutch has disengaged.

Anybody have knowledge of what kind of adjustment they can do to the MMT box and also how their box performs regarding changes down to gears 1 and 2.

I had a Corolla with MMT box which had mild creep all the time and again changes down to 1 and 2 were pretty noticeable. I had it 5 years with no problems.

[Jan van de Wouw]

1st and reverse are not synchronised, so they can be a pain to engage when not at a complete standstill,

on a full manual box you can feel this is happening and "double clutch", the M-MT is the same box,

but controlled by actuators that do not "feel" anything. I believe someone on the Dutch forum has

a similar problem, which the dealer "solves" by reseeting the M-MT's ECU every 3 months or so :!Removed!:

[ormi]

1st has got a syncro...........every gear apart from reverse has a syncro

[S_J_P]

I have a MMT 'box and tend to use manual almost all the time.

It's at slower speeds around town that the "E" setting really falls down, rather than lurching I find that it's very reluctant to change down to first at all and consequently I'm often baulking-down when pulling away in second with the clutch slipping profusely Even in Manual it's not perfect as I frequently find that I'm approaching a junction in third and flick-down to negotiate in second only to find that the 'box has changed to 2nd moments before me and I end up in first instead

The most infuriating trait though is the second/third change on a speed-ramped road near to my house. When accelerating between the widely-spaced ramps the 'box will rarely change-up even at 3,500rpm in 2nd when lifting-off the accelerator (I've had it "stuck" in second at 5,000rpm before :ffs: and no amount of lifting or tickling the accelerator has resulted in a change-up), but just as I'm using engine-braking approaching the next ramp it'll change up to third and baulk-down when accelerating away again at <1,500rpm.

Unfortunately the MMT box seems to very rarely be in the gear I'd be in if I were in control Fuel consumption seems to be vastly inferior too (though it's still early days with the MMT)

[Cyker]

The MMT has always had a terrible reputation; They've only recently managed to fix the bugs in it ('twas the first time I've seen anyone who had a good thing to say about it! ) but the ECU patches seem only available for the Auris :(

[ihpj]

I disagree, the MMT is an excellent box. You have to drive it manually most (if not all) of the time to get the most out of it. Its about adapting your diving style to the box and understanding/accepting that it is not an automatic. Drive it like a manual (without a clutch) and it is a real *HOOT*.

[Cyker]

I must admit I never considered getting a semi-auto to drive it in manual mode all the time - People generally pick the MMT because they want an automatic gearbox.

I just don't get why you'd get an auto box if you're going to use it in manual mode all the time; Why not get a manual in the first place?

[ihpj]

People generally pick the MMT because they want an automatic gearbox.

Yes they do, but they fail to consider that it is not an automatic.

I just don't get why you'd get an auto box if you're going to use it in manual mode all the time; Why not get a manual in the first place?

Like I said, the MMT is not an automatic. It is a clutchless manual box and needs to be driven as such. Some people who have no confidence driving a traditional manual can find such a box useful as there is the fear of stalling the car at a junction (for example) - so the MMT provides all the benefits of a manual, but none of the technical complexity of having a physical clutch. Also, if you have an injury to your left knee that prevents the use of the clutch foot, but you want to drive a manual, the MMT offers you the option.

The MMT is a very useful technology that has to be used correctly.

[Jan&tone]

I must admit I never considered getting a semi-auto to drive it in manual mode all the time - People generally pick the MMT because they want an automatic gearbox.

I just don't get why you'd get an auto box if you're going to use it in manual mode all the time; Why not get a manual in the first place?

The reason we got the mmt was that the wife has an auto licence so we wanted an auto box. Personally i always drive it as a manual, but she doesnt. Like others i have found that the change down is a pain, especially at roundabouts, in auto mode it changes from 2 to 1 too slowly, and in manual mode it's too quick, you have to check the display before going from 3 to 2 'cos it may well have already done it!!

Otherwise it' a great little box, just that one foible...

[S_J_P]

I presume the gear-change is electronically controlled, so is it possible to fit up/down switches or paddles on the steering-wheel to supplement the shift-lever?

[mrpj]

There are supplementary paddles fitted, on the column behind the wheel, to the latest MMT Yaris which work very well, they can also be used to over-ride the changes in E (auto type)mode when the electronics allow. The gear change seems to be quicker too using the paddles.

I don't know about the Aygo though.

[Teemu]

I must say I like the Mmt box and use the automatic E-mode all the time. Only when driving a steep slippery hill I switch to manual, so the automatic won't switch to second when there is ice and the revs go higher.

Having driven now 50 000 kilometers and two years, I wouldn't go back to manual!

Happy Aygo Xmas! :)

[Geriatric]

Regarding my original posting re possible MMT box adjustment for clutch sometimes failing to engage it would seem from the answers that nobody has experienced this and in fact nobody has required any adjutment to the box at all.

The manual box does require some adjustment to the clutch as it is cable activated but possibly the MMT clutch adjusts automatically. Anybody with detailed knowledge on the MMT box?

[Unklian]

Hi There.

The only "adjustment" I've heard of is

to disconnect the Battery briefly.

This means the CPU has to re-learn the biting point.

Don't know if it's an urban myth or true

but for the sake of a couple of minutes, it

might be worth a try?

Ian.

[Geriatric]

Thanks Ian

I think a myth! Apart frm having to reset clock and radio does not appear to do anything for the MMT box. When Peugeot adjusted the box it was noticeable. Small creep for a while and changes down to 1 and 2 much smoother. Service manager was not able to elucidate asto what the adjustment was.

[kav]

Regarding my original posting re possible MMT box adjustment for clutch sometimes failing to engage it would seem from the answers that nobody has experienced this and in fact nobody has required any adjutment to the box at all.

The manual box does require some adjustment to the clutch as it is cable activated but possibly the MMT clutch adjusts automatically. Anybody with detailed knowledge on the MMT box?

it doesn't. i wish it did....

twice.

at 40K + 65K. only T can do that, with a special electronic instument...

but,

i was told that THIS ADJUSTMENT shouldn't be done frequently, cause clutch/disc/bearing

are led to premature ageing.

Hi There.

The only "adjustment" I've heard of is

to disconnect the battery briefly.

This means the CPU has to re-learn the biting point.

Don't know if it's an urban myth or true

but for the sake of a couple of minutes, it

might be worth a try?

Ian.

this works only if there is a fault (engine check, etc.)

if it works....

Do it the right way. Disconnect only the red cable(+) . not the black (-) !

leave it 10' + reconnect.

done.

if it's finally done.....

Now at 75K, and no problems from MMT.

PS. T's instument cost = 14.000 e. :o :ffs:

[silvio]

Hi to all,

I would like to relate my MMT experiences. I've had the car since July 2006 and my mileage is around 22K miles. I live in Malta and trips here are very short, say around 3 to 5 miles each way to work. A few months ago my gearbox started acting up by "trying" to go fast in rush hour traffic and when the brake was applied it sort of juddered, similar to when it shifts from 2nd to 1st gear, but not as harsh. This also happened when going up a small incline such as a ramp from an underground garage. I had asked the local Toyota dealer and they had said that the gearbox ECU needed resetting. After that driving was smooth again.

I have always had the box shifting down to 1st while going down in hills etc, especially if there are speed bumps in the road! So I resolved to shifting to manual down these hills and it stays on 2nd gear. Lightly tapping on the accelerator while driving on E did not resolve the issue so driving on M is much better.

I tend to drive mainly on E as it is better for the majority of times and use M when I want to overtake or feel like a bit of engaging in some speed :D

All in all I am quite satisfied especially since there is no clutch. Before the Aygo I had a 1992 Nova with a diesel engine and the clutch was like depressing a rock so this is definitely an improvement.

I would definitely recommend it for town driving (unfortunately I cannot say anything about driving on longer trips as I cannot).

[mbellinger]

The MMT box has a terrible reputation in the trade, both technically and for sales. It is one of those ideas that looks great on paper, but in practice manages to miss all the targets.

There have been myriad problems with the box - mainly electrical and software issues. Many owners are utterly oblivious to this as the fixes have been made by their dealer surreptitiously when they take their cars in for routine maintenance. There has been yet another wave of software updates with the launch of the box in the IQ.

It is unquestionably one of those things that, as the cars get older and older, and manufacturer support falls away, will create problems the cost of which exceeds the value of the car (if you can get the bits that is), so a perfectly good vehicle will end up getting scrapped for a small gearbox software problem.

There is also the impact on fuel consumption, which is horrendous - witness Autocar getting 27 mpg out of an MMT IQ. If you want a small city car and must have an auto, then at the moment I would say you are genuinely better looking elsewhere. The new wave of small light CVT boxes such as in the Honda Jazz are much smoother, much more reliable in service, don't need updating every five minutes, and have nothing like the impact on fuel economy.

Toyota are known to be working on a CVT solution for their small cars, as in Japan where 90% of cars sold are automatics, the MMT has an even worse reputation.

[Geriatric]

Toyota are known to be working on a CVT solution for their small cars,

This was rumoured 5 years ago when many MMT boxes on the Corolla failed in the fast lane.They seem to have sorted that problem but still no CVT box!

The MMT boxes other than on the Aygo have built in creep or easy start which is a good feature but with the Aygo you soon get used to using the hand brake. My car was delivered with very mild creep but it soon disappeared.

The first problem I had was the clutch failing to engage when manoeuvering forward or reverse and then came in with a fierce lurch which was pretty dangerous. This fault was rectified and the car was returned with mild creep which again soon disappeared. For several months the gear changes 1to2 and 2to1 were excellent and the car was a pleasure to drive. It now has developed lurchy changes in 1 and 2 and has become unpleasant to drive.

The problem is trying to ascertain what goes wrong. I was told by one mechanic the clutch adjusts for wear automatically but I do not think that is right as the mild creep when new and when adjusted would seem to indicate that the clutch must be partially engaging . It would be interesting to hear from a mechanic with detailed knowledge of how the clutch and operation of the box can be adjusted. The box has its own computer and clearly updated software for the detailed operation of the box can be changed but how is the clutch adjusted?

I have only done 7,000kms and the clutch was first adjusted at 5,000kms.

From my experience disconnecting the Battery has no effect on the operation of the MMT box.

[mrpj]

"The new wave of small light CVT boxes such as in the Honda Jazz are much smoother, much more reliable in service, don't need updating every five minutes, and have nothing like the impact on fuel economy."

I thought Honda had stopped using a CVT and now adopted a MMT type box in the Jazz, iShift?

[kav]

..........but with the Aygo you soon get used to using the hand brake.

rarely.

do others drive your car? do they treat it well?

It would be interesting to hear from a mechanic with detailed knowledge of how the clutch and operation of the box can be adjusted.

T's electricians don't talk. they just plug in the tool + reset / reprogramm box ecu.

then they go for a ride, and ''it's ready sir !''

The box has its own computer and clearly updated software for the detailed operation of the box can be changed but how is the clutch adjusted?

unknown.

updated software? interesting but i hane not seen it yet. it would be a great solution to lower the 1st gear engagement (from 2nd) at 8-10 km/h. now it is appx. at 18km/h.

I have only done 7,000kms and the clutch was first adjusted at 5,000kms.

c1 + 107 + aygo are brothers, but both c1+107 are 1 click lower than aygo.

in 2006, 107 was 400e cheaper in GR, but i KNEW i would pay them later, so i took Aygo.

my personal opinion.

in GR, too many aygos /c1/107 are going in at 20K for clutch/disc/bearing.

if lucky, warranty.

if not, 380e.

depends a lot, to the driver. Unklian pointed it, it needs a little bit of help...

ps. i do not work in T. also i'm not an electrician.

:)

[elisetype25]

No problems at all with our MMT, now 4 years and 45k miles and gives 50mpg week in, week out.

Interesting comment above about them being to all intents 'rubbish' and updated every 5 minutes with the owner utterly oblivious.

All cars get routine software updates these days for all sorts of reasons, and if the owner was oblivious then they were clearly unaware of a problem in the first place, ie. there wasn't really a problem.

As with all cars and all variants there are good and bad examples of each. Our car has been 'rectified' by Toyota for the accelerator issue which has since been shown to be not an issue after all (shock-horror). I prefer to deal in reality and facts rather than conjecture, unfortunately this approach is not shared more widely.

The only real issue with the MMT is that IT IS NOT A TRADITIONAL AUTO (Slush box). As has been mentioned on countless occassions previously, it is a manual with an electronic clutch. Hence you need to adapt your driving style with this in mind. Again not everyone seems to understand or be capable of doing this.

A quick google on problems highlights many more hits relating to the Honda CVT rather than the Toyota MMT, and I can understand the Japenese not liking the MMT, as I mentioned, it's not a traditional automatic something which the CVT mimmicks more closely than an electronic clutch ever will.

Regards, Neil

[kav]

...updates every time in local T.

so?

what MMT needs is ''urgent repair in low speed for 1st gear''.

think it's clear now, utterly. B)

[Geriatric]

it would be a great solution to lower the 1st gear engagement (from 2nd) at 8-10 km/h. now it is appx. at 18km/h.

I would say mine engaged 1st. gear at about 10km/h but I will check tomorrow. I would prefer it did not engage first gear till the car was stopped as it presently engages with a thump.

[Cyker]

Ugh, you don't want CVT; They're very smooth but aside from that they're worse in every way. The only CVT that doesn't seem to suck is the Prius', and that is mainly because it isn't really a CVT

Personally, the only (semi-) auto boxes I've used which I didn't immediately hate are

a) REAL torque converter boxes (Super smooth but conversion losses raise emissions so many mfgs have stopped using them :( )

B) VW DSG semi-auto (Also very smooth whether you're driving smoothly or like a maniac; Downshifts not as good tho' and veeeeery expensive (£3k+!) if it breaks)