D-4D Black Oil, Sudden Death Of Power And Black Smoke

[Sam29]

Hi,

I bought Avensis two weeks ago with full Toyota service history (except last oil change was from local garage). Cambelt changed, glow plus and many other jobs done through toyota dealer.

I have few queries.

1) First thing which I notice after buying the car was the oil, which was very black.

Quick look at last service showed that it had been changed at local garage. Could it be that they used cheap oil or there could be some problem with engine? I have driven the car for about 500 miles and no consumption of oil so far.

2) While driving today coming off motorway and getting into round about, I reduced speed and down shifted the gear into second. The speed was hardly 5-10 MPH and all of sudden no power, despite of pressing the gas to full. It was very risky especially when the other car was on my head. It lasted for 5 seconds and then car gradually picked up acceleration. (no engine/ service light)

What could it be?

3) Sudden death of acceleration happened again, and again I was at very low RPM and try to accelerate. This time I released the pressure from gas instantly and tried again and it worked. Car picked up speed quickly.

Is it something to do with turbo or with any valve?

4) After having 2 and 3 (above mentioned) I parked the car at the side and reved it to 5 (6 is full) as one of my friend told me that diesel car should be rev high just to clear valves and turbo. How correct is it?

I could not see any black smoke at that time, but later when I returned home (going through motorway) I saw black smoke marks on rear bumper bottom.

5) On very cold morning, car takes while to start. When I put the key to Ac, and glow plug ligts turn off, it take 2-3 attempts before car starts. Again are all of above associated with each other or separate. I doubt that oil from local garage was not good and am having these problems. What do you guys think?

I am not trying to ask everything in one post but putting all the things together so that it can make sense to readers. Please share your experiences / suggestions.

Thanks.

[Sam29]

Good Morning friends.....

I thought I may see new post here in the morning....guess what its too cold....so no replies.

[mrpj]

The oil does soon become black in a Diesel engine after it's been changed. It depends on when the oil was last changed and if the correct oil was used?

If the glow plugs have been replaced then I wonder if the previous owner was having cold start problems?

What's the mileage and how old is the car?

[kennny1000]

I am no expert, but for the starting I would check the glow plugs. They may have been checked before but its easy and worth a shot. Loss of power has been covered many times on this forum so I would start with having a look at your EGR and clean it if necessary, also it may be worth changing your fuel filter. I would also add a fuel additive then full your fuel tank and let it also do its work. Look at the easy bits then see the results before thinking about the expensive bits. Keep us posted and good luck

[caveman_si]

Sam

1) diesel engines car turn their oil black very quickly, the oil catchs and holds some of the soot produce in the engine thats why. Ive put new oil in a car and gone from golden to black in 10 miles. So dont worry about it too much.

2) You just discovered turbo lag. If your in the wrong gear it will lag lots no matter how hard you press the accelerater, try dropping a gear next time. This could be made worse by a dirty EGR valve that needs cleaning. details on how to clean an EGR on the 2.2TD engine are here : EGR clean

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106241&st=0 I think There is a link on that post somewhere about the 2.0 engine if thats yours?

3) see above, To accelerate you need to keep in gear and only change up to the next gear when you between 2-3k revs. If you are driving along and at low revs you may need to drop to a lower gear to accelerate.

4) NEVER do that again. You should never rev the nuts of a stationary engine as there is no load on and it and if its not in good condition it can go BANG. To make sure you keep your engine/turbo cleaned out, every now and again once the engine is good and warm drive the car on a good bit of fast road and keep it in a lower gear then you would keeping the revs up 3-4k for a mile or so. If you can find some where and take it up some long hills all the better.

5) Cold starting issues will probably be down to : one or more glow plugs failed, poor starter motor, or weak Battery.

The wrong viscosity oil could play a small part but its not as much as you think. When starting the car you do hold the clutch down right? as this helps reduce engine drag on starting.

After that I would check the condition of the Battery changing as necessary and then see about getting the glow plugs checked/changed. After that look at the starter.

[Sam29]

The oil does soon become black in a Diesel engine after it's been changed. It depends on when the oil was last changed and if the correct oil was used?

If the glow plugs have been replaced then I wonder if the previous owner was having cold start problems?

What's the mileage and how old is the car?

Car is 03 and on 85K miles. Last service was done on 83K.

About oil, I think it was changed at local garage by previous owner who was charged 25 pounds for oil and 7 pounds for filter. I think for 25 you will get budget oil (may be semi synthetic and may be 10-30W) and that is why it may have difficulty with starting in cold weather.

Looking at the history, car gave ignition service light on 78K which was taken to toyota main dealer who charged for diagnosis and replaced glow plugs.

Thanks for asking.

[Sam29]

Sam

1) diesel engines car turn their oil black very quickly, the oil catchs and holds some of the soot produce in the engine thats why. Ive put new oil in a car and gone from golden to black in 10 miles. So dont worry about it too much.

2) You just discovered turbo lag. If your in the wrong gear it will lag lots no matter how hard you press the accelerater, try dropping a gear next time. This could be made worse by a dirty EGR valve that needs cleaning. details on how to clean an EGR on the 2.2TD engine are here : EGR clean

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106241&st=0 I think There is a link on that post somewhere about the 2.0 engine if thats yours?

3) see above, To accelerate you need to keep in gear and only change up to the next gear when you between 2-3k revs. If you are driving along and at low revs you may need to drop to a lower gear to accelerate.

4) NEVER do that again. You should never rev the nuts of a stationary engine as there is no load on and it and if its not in good condition it can go BANG. To make sure you keep your engine/turbo cleaned out, every now and again once the engine is good and warm drive the car on a good bit of fast road and keep it in a lower gear then you would keeping the revs up 3-4k for a mile or so. If you can find some where and take it up some long hills all the better.

5) Cold starting issues will probably be down to : one or more glow plugs failed, poor starter motor, or weak battery.

The wrong viscosity oil could play a small part but its not as much as you think. When starting the car you do hold the clutch down right? as this helps reduce engine drag on starting.

After that I would check the condition of the battery changing as necessary and then see about getting the glow plugs checked/changed. After that look at the starter.

Brilliant answer my friend. really appreciate your efforts and input.

1- I checked my friend diesel car engine oil today on 3K after changing the oil and it was black and at that stage I realized it is 'norm' with diesel. Thanks for the info.

2 & 3- Guess what

Today I kept it in correct gears and no power lag, no problem at all. You are correct, as those power lags happened when I tried to accelerate the car in lower rev (less than 1) in second / third gear. Silly me, but tried to be green (eco man) and already used to petrol cars.

Going to change my habbit, but today no problem at all. thanks for your advice.

4-

Surely I did not know. Will never do it again, and agree with what you recommended, car should be driven on high RPMS to clean.

5- Glow plugs have been changed recently on 78K and from main toyota dealer. I think I do not crank it for enough time. As today I did not crank it for more than 2-3 seconds.

On second attempt I kept cranking and it started on 4th or max 5th second. Is it something normal?

How many seconds your car take b/w cranking and starting itself?

Lastly, when clearning EGR, do I need to buy any kit? I remember somebody posted that we need a kit to put it back as when we dismentle it, the kit is wasted. If we do require, where to buy the kit.

Once again, really appreciate your input and help.

[rogerbu]

As you are a new Turno Diesel driver can I just remind you that all Turbo Diesels need to be allowed to cool before stopping the engine as otherwise they 'cook' their oil and wipe out the tubo bearings - £2-3k

When I have been at motorway speeds, hills or towing etc. I make sure that either I have doddled along or left the engine idling for 3 mins since the turbo was working before stopping the engine.

[Sam29]

As you are a new Turno Diesel driver can I just remind you that all Turbo Diesels need to be allowed to cool before stopping the engine as otherwise they 'cook' their oil and wipe out the tubo bearings - £2-3k

When I have been at motorway speeds, hills or towing etc. I make sure that either I have doddled along or left the engine idling for 3 mins since the turbo was working before stopping the engine.

Thanks Roger, yes you are correct and it is mentioned in booklet that keep it idle if we travel upto 60 and for 2 minutes if we drive it more than 60 mph.

Riligiously following it :)

[acetip]

As you are a new Turno Diesel driver can I just remind you that all Turbo Diesels need to be allowed to cool before stopping the engine as otherwise they 'cook' their oil and wipe out the tubo bearings - £2-3k

When I have been at motorway speeds, hills or towing etc. I make sure that either I have doddled along or left the engine idling for 3 mins since the turbo was working before stopping the engine.

hi rogerbu

my old passat had a electric coolant pump that switched on and circulated coolant through turbo if engine shutdown too soon.switched on by an overtemp switch.to stop the pump seizing through lack of use,when starter motor was used a feed went to pump and revolved a couple of times.the passat was a 1991 model.would have thought others would have adopted idea.not sure if my 2 mondeos had it or not.but its a simple solution to the problem.