Celica 190 Broken Or Bent Valve?

[Willoliver1]

hi, im new on here! thought id try picking the minds of you fellow toyota owners to see if youve got any ideas on my problem.

I recently bought a celica 190 with all reciepts etc for a recently reconditioned engine as the previous owner didnt bother to check the oil enough and ran it dry. The new engine had only covered about 200 miles when i bought it so I ran it in carefully for the first 1k and then changed the oil and filter (5w/30 semi synth), since then its done about 500 miles perfectly until it stalled on me when I was slowing to park up. When I started it back up there was a very nasty knocking noise from the engine. I know all about the oil usage problems some of these cars have so I have been checking it very often, and it was still bang on the max mark. So far iv drained the oil and taken off the sump, baffle plate, pickup etc and looked at the big end shells thinking this would definately be what was making the noise, but the crank and shells all look like new still so put it back together. After this i thought id better check the timing hadnt jumped, took out the plugs and turned it over with a ratchet on the crank. Whenever the 2 middle pistons go up, just as they reach the top it locks solid. Anywhere else its free, if i go the other way its fine again until the two middle pistons go to tdc and then suddenly locks. Last time when i started it apart from the nasty knocking, it didnt seem to be misfiring which makes me wonder if a valve is bent and the piston is hitting it shut every time it comes up. Il stop typing now! ANY ideas before I take the head off would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Will

[Scarlett Arrow]

From your description, Will, it does sound like valve train failure. Whenever I read "reconditioned", I fear the worse as there are so many horror stories with poor quality rebuilds. Although I'm not an expert on the 190 Engine, one guy I would recommend is Lee at Se7en Motorsport in Coventry. He probably knows the VVTL-i better than anyone else in the U.K., so will be worth a call. The only advice I can personally give, is to use 5W40 fully synthetic oil in a 190 Engine.

HTH.

[Willoliver1]

Hey, thanks for the reply Scarlett. Took the head off yesterday and there were lots of bits of what look like a valve seat stuck in the top of no. 3 piston and the head, and unfortunatly its dragged a few bits up and down the cylinder wall and scored it. I dont know for sure but i dont think you can bore the block out and get oversize pistons for the 2zz so im thinking itd be easier to get a low mileage replacement engine, or try and get another recon unit. Judging by what happened with this one its a bit off putting going down the recon road again though. Iv emailed lee at se7en, so itd be good to see if he knows of any engines about or can supply one. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again, Will

[mcwillo]

From your description, Will, it does sound like valve train failure. Whenever I read "reconditioned", I fear the worse as there are so many horror stories with poor quality rebuilds. Although I'm not an expert on the 190 Engine, one guy I would recommend is Lee at Se7en Motorsport in Coventry. He probably knows the VVTL-i better than anyone else in the U.K., so will be worth a call. The only advice I can personally give, is to use 5W40 fully synthetic oil in a 190 Engine.

HTH.

Hi,

Could I please ask why 5W40 fully synthetic oil is recommended in a 190 Engine? I have a 190 and have always used semi-synthetic. My knowledge is very limited, apologies if this appears a silly question.

Oh and sorry for the slight hijack OP.

Thanks

[Scarlett Arrow]

It's not a silly question at all. The second figure (30 or 40) refers to the viscosity or thickness of the Oil at normal running temperature. The higher the number, the thicker the Oil will be. Although Toyota will recommend a 5W30 Semi Synthetic for both the 140 and 190, because the 190 is capable of much higher revs in "lift" than the 140, the thicker and more highly refined 0W40 or 5W40 will offer greater protection at these higher revs. For example, if you were taking part in a Track Day, it would be advisable to use something like a 5W50 Oil, to cope with the extra stress the Engine will be under.

The weak points of the VVTi-L Engine are:

Lift/Flange Bolts, especially on the pre face lift 190 Engine (00-02). These are very cheap and relatively easy to change with the improved type from Toyota.

The Valve Train

The Oil Pump

HTH :)

[mcwillo]

Thanks Scarlett, yes that does help. Makes sense really.

The weak points of the VVTi-L Engine are:

Lift/Flange Bolts, especially on the pre face lift 190 Engine (00-02). These are very cheap and relatively easy to change with the improved type from Toyota.

The Valve Train

The Oil Pump

I've had the car for about 3 years but it's been a bit neglected, decided I need to start paying more TLC :). It is the pre-facelift 190, the only things I've done is put a Powerflow exhaust and 17's on... It doesn't have any problems with lift, but would you recommend changing the Lift Bolts as a preventative measure against future problems?

The car's got a couple of other issues, guess I'll be starting a couple of threads soon so keep an eye out ;)

Thanks for your help

[Scarlett Arrow]

Definitely change the Flange/Lift Bolts for the uprated type. The last thing you want is for one to snap and possibly drop into the Engine. They usually give you some warning in that you'll experience a loss of "lift" first, but it's a wise and cheap little job to carry out.

[mcwillo]

Does seem a little bit more sluggish lately, but based on what I've found out that's likely to be with it having semi-synth... I'll order myself a couple of flange bolts then :)