More Power For D4D

[DanielzZz]

Hey,I'm thinking of raising the power of my 1ND,so I've got a few offers from people.One of them is for powerboxes,TDC Technologies or Genercom.The other is to get an ECU Chip (or ECU Remap if possible).Which is better and why ?

Guys at the Yaris club told me someone named Alan knows about this sort of thing,if you're reading mate,please help.

[alan589]

Hello

I don't think that I am the Alan you are looking for but I have had a PSI Powerbox fitted for around two years. Thus far there have been no problems at all, my car is an '06 and has done 61k, 50k of that by me.

The increase in power is very noticeable, especially the torque.

I haven't noticed any adverse effect on fuel economy but I don't tend to worry about that much as the car does about 50 mpg when driven briskly which is enough for me.

Takes about 15 minutes to fit (less once you have taken it off a couple of times when it goes to Mr T for a service), 2 connectors for the Battery terminals and 4plugs to connect to the injectors(it sounds like a big deal but it isn't).

I don't have any experience of chipped ECU,s on the Yaris so I can't comment.

The only other thing I did was lowered the car on TTE springs to take advantage of the improved power in the corners.

The only breakdown which has occurred with my car was related to the throttle body which was replaced. This happened at around 30k when the box had only been fitted for a few months so I don't believe that this was due to the box. I have covered 30,000 miles since then and there have no other issues, everything works just as it should. The car surprises lots of people with its mid-range pull and is on a par performance wise, in my experience, with things like the mini-cooper(not the S), Civic CDTI and the standard Fabia VRS.

Good luck

[siray123]

I'd have an ECU remap over a tuning box TBH, yes they work but they are not as cleaver/in harmony with the car as what a remap would be. The more complex more expensive tuning boxes could read ECU signals and deliver fuel based on feedback.

I am trying to persuade my GF to get a remap to her 90bhp d4d, with a high flow cat and remap i reckon i could see 120BHP or just shy, but its not at all about max power/peak power.

Think of how a diesel makes power, your detonating the fuel air mix by putting it under pressure, more simplistic tuning boxes will simply up the pressure.

A remap alters all fuelling/pressure/turbo engagement/others parameters inline with other sensors etc (TPS etc) within the standard ECU map so everything is delivered smoothly and consistently throughout the powerband, also a map is not fighting the ECU (so to speak), ever seen a diesel puff off black smoke? - that's overfueling.

Most boxes mainly only increases rail pressure and alters the burning cycle (length and fuel quantity), yes they have a few extra settings.

So overall I'd go with a remap if you want the most safest power, the downsides are you need to reflash them/remove chip (in some cars) so dealers etc cant see you have flashed them. Tuning boxes can be removed/added in matters of minutes.

Also with tuning boxes they do not report the correct MPG, due the box fuelling the ECU/not seeing correct injector times.

Thanks

[t-spiritpete]

I'd have an ECU remap over a tuning box TBH, yes they work but they are not as cleaver/in harmony with the car as what a remap would be. The more complex more expensive tuning boxes could read ECU signals and deliver fuel based on feedback.

I am trying to persuade my GF to get a remap to her 90bhp d4d, with a high flow cat and remap i reckon i could see 120BHP or just shy, but its not at all about max power/peak power.

Think of how a diesel makes power, your detonating the fuel air mix by putting it under pressure, more simplistic tuning boxes will simply up the pressure.

A remap alters all fuelling/pressure/turbo engagement/others parameters inline with other sensors etc (TPS etc) within the standard ECU map so everything is delivered smoothly and consistently throughout the powerband, also a map is not fighting the ECU (so to speak), ever seen a diesel puff off black smoke? - that's overfueling.

Most boxes mainly only increases rail pressure and alters the burning cycle (length and fuel quantity), yes they have a few extra settings.

So overall I'd go with a remap if you want the most safest power, the downsides are you need to reflash them/remove chip (in some cars) so dealers etc cant see you have flashed them. Tuning boxes can be removed/added in matters of minutes.

Also with tuning boxes they do not report the correct MPG, due the box fuelling the ECU/not seeing correct injector times.

Thanks

Hello, I didn't think that was possible to remap a Toyota ecu but I stand to be corrected.

Pete.

[alan589]

I'd have an ECU remap over a tuning box TBH, yes they work but they are not as cleaver/in harmony with the car as what a remap would be. The more complex more expensive tuning boxes could read ECU signals and deliver fuel based on feedback.

I am trying to persuade my GF to get a remap to her 90bhp d4d, with a high flow cat and remap i reckon i could see 120BHP or just shy, but its not at all about max power/peak power.

Think of how a diesel makes power, your detonating the fuel air mix by putting it under pressure, more simplistic tuning boxes will simply up the pressure.

A remap alters all fuelling/pressure/turbo engagement/others parameters inline with other sensors etc (TPS etc) within the standard ECU map so everything is delivered smoothly and consistently throughout the powerband, also a map is not fighting the ECU (so to speak), ever seen a diesel puff off black smoke? - that's overfueling.

Most boxes mainly only increases rail pressure and alters the burning cycle (length and fuel quantity), yes they have a few extra settings.

So overall I'd go with a remap if you want the most safest power, the downsides are you need to reflash them/remove chip (in some cars) so dealers etc cant see you have flashed them. Tuning boxes can be removed/added in matters of minutes.

Also with tuning boxes they do not report the correct MPG, due the box fuelling the ECU/not seeing correct injector times.

Thanks

Siray

You suggest that overfueling will be an issue. There is no discernable change in smoke when the box is fitted and the engine performs without any noticeable difference, except, of course, the extra power. Perhaps there is more than enough air to burn the extra fuel delivered by the box. As far as I know, the box on my car does not change turbo boost but delivers more fuel, yet ecomony hasn't suffered!

My only experience of a re-map was with a Fiat. I had a full bhoona re-map on a JTD Mulipla(odd but true)....it blew up.

Have you tried a decent power box? It may be less sophisticated but it works.

Alan

[siray123]

My experience mainly lies with petrol but i have dabbled/watched/observed my mate who tunes cars for a living, petrol and diesels. I have installed, and fully tuned my car myself on a dyno. Often i help with things and simply observe other people coming into the shop.

Since i now own a diesel and have become more interested.

I have seen some very poor tuning boxes and some half decent ones on a dyno (added before and after), i admit some but not all work. Since a lot of people don't put their car on a dyno i think this is stupid/naive.

Your box is not producing smoke as you probably haven't wacked up the setting and you are running a nice mixture.

Some ECU's are learning ECU's thus it gets more complicated, then there's partial throttle and full throttle maps.

I was looking at one on eBay, the sellers hasn't got back to me yet but I've asked him alsorts of involving/technical questions so thats maybe why :D. As a matter of interest i 'may' buy one depending on what answers the seller comes back with, but i dont expect it to be as good as remap.

Yes the ECU can be flashed, but i think the tuning companies will likely remove the chip or connect a reader/writer internally for the purpose or writing and reading.

[alan589]

Siray

My box is an early effort from PSI which is not adjustable.

The power gains are obvious there is no need to put it on a dyno to get some numbers to prove it.

I am 47 and have been driving for 30 yrs, naive I am not!

Alan

[siray123]

With respect Alan, i will explain (without going into too much jargon)

It doesn't matter if you have been driving 4 month's or 40 years :D. My point still stands.

Sure the gains are there (you can feel them, excluding placebo), but..

a. Are you getting the full potential - likely not.

b. Is it running safe? that is something you cannot possibly gauge without a dyno. Its all well getting power, for example if you push the fuelling/pressure etc you get more power but you can possibly melt/break engine components etc with high temperatures, in several scenarios.

When you dyno the car, you attach various sensors to the engine and insert bungs in the tailpipe to measure the ratio, unless you have a wideband etc gauge on your car. But still without monitoring you cannot possibly know if its running in a safe state.

You can not also listen for problems which you think could be there, sometimes the car will go into limp mode thus you know there is a problem :D.

If a tuning company is worth its salt they will and will always use a dyno, to acquire a delta and thus tune the car within safe parameters.

An example with petrol engines is pushing timing which equals more power, but advancing too much (sailing close to the wind) introducing detonation then the engine blows up or you melt a piston due to too hot combustion temperatures.

When i tuned my car, that was around 7 hours in one day i could have easily blew up the engine, it was running unsafe in some areas.

See what I'm getting at?

I didn't mean to come across funny and argogant but hopefully you see where i am coming from.

If i put a tuning box on my car i wouldn't dream of not putting on the dyno. Again I'm not saying tuning boxes are completely useless.

If you put your car on a dyno you may be pleasantly surprised, shocked or have a real eye opener.

Cheers

[alan589]

With respect Alan, i will explain (without going into too much jargon)

It doesn't matter if you have been driving 4 month's or 40 years :D. My point still stands.

Sure the gains are there (you can feel them, excluding placebo), but..

a. Are you getting the full potential - likely not.

b. Is it running safe? that is something you cannot possibly gauge without a dyno. Its all well getting power, for example if you push the fuelling/pressure etc you get more power but you can possibly melt/break engine components etc with high temperatures, in several scenarios.

When you dyno the car, you attach various sensors to the engine and insert bungs in the tailpipe to measure the ratio, unless you have a wideband etc gauge on your car. But still without monitoring you cannot possibly know if its running in a safe state.

You can not also listen for problems which you think could be there, sometimes the car will go into limp mode thus you know there is a problem :D.

If a tuning company is worth its salt they will and will always use a dyno, to acquire a delta and thus tune the car within safe parameters.

An example with petrol engines is pushing timing which equals more power, but advancing too much (sailing close to the wind) introducing detonation then the engine blows up or you melt a piston due to too hot combustion temperatures.

When i tuned my car, that was around 7 hours in one day i could have easily blew up the engine, it was running unsafe in some areas.

See what I'm getting at?

I didn't mean to come across funny and argogant but hopefully you see where i am coming from.

If i put a tuning box on my car i wouldn't dream of not putting on the dyno. Again I'm not saying tuning boxes are completely useless.

If you put your car on a dyno you may be pleasantly surprised, shocked or have a real eye opener.

Cheers

Point taken Siray.

I suppose to some extent I took a gamble and that is probably naive. However having run the box reliably for 30-35k it would appear that, for this box only, I can reasonably comment that it works. It would be interesting to stick it on some rollers but it seems that rollers can give varying results so I will trust the seat of my pants. I do understand the point you make though.

Regards

Alan

[siray123]

Dyno's should be used as a tool.

If the manufacturer says the car is 90BHP @fly then if you get in the region of -/+ 10% of that figure its good, yes there are various type of dynos and they differ somewhat. A lot of manufacturers have the engine out of the car or have temperature etc controlled rooms (since the type of day plays a very big factor in power output)

If i get a tuning box i will dyno the car bone stock (no tuning box) then add the tuning box and dyno again - however my knowledge with this ECU is a limited it may require a bit of learning, however generally booting it on the dyno helps.

I was definitely going to get a remap, but GF does not like the idea so a tuning box is more appealing providing its not a crap one.

Cheers

[alan589]

Dyno's should be used as a tool.

If the manufacturer says the car is 90BHP @fly then if you get in the region of -/+ 10% of that figure its good, yes there are various type of dynos and they differ somewhat. A lot of manufacturers have the engine out of the car or have temperature etc controlled rooms (since the type of day plays a very big factor in power output)

If i get a tuning box i will dyno the car bone stock (no tuning box) then add the tuning box and dyno again - however my knowledge with this ECU is a limited it may require a bit of learning, however generally booting it on the dyno helps.

I was definitely going to get a remap, but GF does not like the idea so a tuning box is more appealing providing its not a crap one.

Cheers

Give it a try.

Back in the eighties I ran a few 205 GTi's one of which was 105 bhp and the others were 115bhp. The difference was just about perceptible.

The gains achieved in the Yaris with this box are far more obvious and suggest that the claims made by PSI aren't far off the mark.

Alan

[siray123]

My S2000 on a good day, stock apart from a decat made 231BHP :D

Out of interest what do psi state the gains are?

I guess around 20-25bhp MAX and similar amount of torque (lbft)?

I think i need to ask my mate, as I'm sure he mentioned the on board trip meter not being as accurate and thus reporting higher figures than you actually get. However I guess i'd do it the old fashioned way via tank fillup and noting down miles.

[alan589]

My S2000 on a good day, stock apart from a decat made 231BHP :D

Out of interest what do psi state the gains are?

I guess around 20-25bhp MAX and similar amount of torque (lbft)?

I think i need to ask my mate, as I'm sure he mentioned the on board trip meter not being as accurate and thus reporting higher figures than you actually get. However I guess i'd do it the old fashioned way via tank fillup and noting down miles.

They now quote 114 bhp and 237nm torque. When I got my box it was 109bhp and similar torque figure, which is about 175lbs/ft compared to c.150 as standard.

The torque gain is more obvious than the power but that is in keeping with characteristics of turbo diesels I suppose.

Alan