Another Clutch Problem

[GS John]

A few hundred miles ago the clutch pedal started to feel "funny", almost as if it was sticking to my foot when i released it. No funny noises / clutch slip as far as I could tell.

It's now all of a sudden over this weekend got to the only releasing by about 98% so you get graunchy gear changes and a dislike to go into first gear. The pedal was definitely sticking and doing the double declutch seemed to make it a bit easier to change gear. The fluid level looks good. Took it into the local Mr T dealer and they've diagnosed it needs a new clutch with the eye watering cost that means. If they find something broken, that could mean it's a warranty job, if its wear then even though I've got the extended warranty its my pocket that will take the hit.

So the question is, in your opinion, is it a wear or broken bit problem? Ta.

[Big Kev]

What's the mileage, GSJ? I ask because I have recommended your vintage of Rav 4 diesels to my wee sister, and if this is yet another DMF, I WILL SOON BE DE-RECOMMENDING....I really hope for the sake of your wallet it is not another DMF.

Big Kev

[GS John]

32000 miles, September 2005. Not a DMF but the other expensive bit

[local hero]

32000 miles, September 2009. Not a DMF but the other expensive bit

Sorry I am a bit confused, are you saying its a 2009 rav with 32000mls, or as your sig says a 2005 ?mileage.. By the other expensive bit do you mean the clutch plate itself Stew

[GS John]

32000 miles, September 2009. Not a DMF but the other expensive bit

Sorry I am a bit confused, are you saying its a 2009 rav with 32000mls, or as your sig says a 2005 ?mileage.. By the other expensive bit do you mean the clutch plate itself Stew

Senior moment now updated 2005, 32k

Clutch is the bit that's said to need replacing, so has something broken or wear and tear?

I've read how the clutch self adjusts, can you work out the amount of wear during a service ie there's wear indicators? Not feeling the love for the car at the moment, as I had to do a 750 miles round trip to get the SCV's done before Christmas and now this ...

[anchorman]

Go to another garage and get a second opinion. Maybe it is the hydraulic system.

[local hero]

You say you have an extended warranty, well 32000 is hardly high mileage for a clutch, unless you are a driving school? the original Mfrs warranty was for 3yrs 60,000 mls so Mr T are expecting their clutches to last at least that long.. IMO whether its a clutch, DMF, or both your extended warranty should cover it + if not, contact toyota customer relations + ask why it is not covered, or try another dealer, if this is not covered then the Toyota extd warranty is crap + a waste of money Stew...PS were your SCVs not covered?

[GS John]

SCV's were covered, but they wouldn't pay for it to be fixed up here.

The garage is saying most warranties don't cover wear and tear items, including clutches, even from Mr T from new. I'm going to speak with the supplying dealer, even if it's not covered by any warranty, in that I paid almost £10k for a car, and didn't expect to need £2k of repairs in the first few months of ownership.

[local hero]

SCV's were covered, but they wouldn't pay for it to be fixed up here.

The garage is saying most warranties don't cover wear and tear items, including clutches, even from Mr T from new. I'm going to speak with the supplying dealer, even if it's not covered by any warranty, in that I paid almost £10k for a car, and didn't expect to need £2k of repairs in the first few months of ownership.

John, sorry to prolongue this only trying to help, did you buy your Rav from a Toyota dealer + is this a Toyota extended warranty, because this fair wear + tare nonesence is the biggest get out clause usually associated with aftermarket warranties, and the main reason i haven't taken one out, but toyota should be above this which is why they are more costly, Have they taken the clutch out? if so is it worn out? my thinking is once they get to the clutch they will probably tell you it needs a DMF as well, You say the scv,s were covered, but "they" wouldnt pay for it to be fixed up here Whats that about? your in Aberdeen not Alaska Stew

[GS John]

I'd naively hoped that as I was paying Mr T over a £100 a week for his extended warranty that big bill shocks wouldn't be in the viewfinder, silly me!

If the dealer up here takes it apart and it's wear & tear then it'll be all out of my pocket. Speaking with the dealer near to Lancashire, there seems to be some possibility of them sharing the bill :) So the only sensible option I can see (please note Mr Bank Manager) is to get it down there, so if it is worn, then I'll not take the full hit. If it's something else, and is "broken" then I'd hope the warranty will pay. Possibly in the supplying dealers interest to get some help from Mr T too.

But it then makes me wonder if there's a little clip in the gearbox that wears out, and stops me changing gear and it needs the gearbox replacing, will that be coverered, I'm suspecting not now

Car was bught from a Toyota dealer but not under Toyotas approved used cars, I'm being obtuse as I can't afford to give the name of the dealer / town / trade name of the company, but the paperwork from just over 3 months ago is all Mr T's.

[GS John]

An update, the supplying dealer has made an offer that I can't afford to refuse so if you see a Rav4 going south on Friday, give me a wave

[Cyker]

How's the bite point? Does it feel like it's biting right high up, but feels fine once engaged?

Mine felt like it had worn down while I was engaging it, but once engaged I could floor it in 1st and wheel spin the car which is a sure sign the clutch isn't worn.

In my case the clutch's diaphragm spring was smegged up (flattened, fingers uneven) and the plate was not pressing flat against the flywheel so only part of it was .

If you have a tendency to wait at the lights/junctions/etc. with the clutch pressed in all the time, there is a good chance you have a similar issue.

However, it still requires the clutch to be taken out to fix it so you may as well get the whole lot changed.

Toyota (And most main dealers in my experience) are not competitive for clutch changes because they have very high charges for mechanic time and doing a proper job on the clutch can take best part of a day. :S

[bothwell_buyer]

the guys I use can get my clutch replaced in double quick time... but them I'm running the 3sgte engine rather than a diesel.

However the clutch and associated bits should last 60,000 unless you are using the car for sprints like wot I do in which case they don't last quite that long.

[GS John]

How's the bite point? Does it feel like it's biting right high up, but feels fine once engaged?

Mine felt like it had worn down while I was engaging it, but once engaged I could floor it in 1st and wheel spin the car which is a sure sign the clutch isn't worn.

In my case the clutch's diaphragm spring was smegged up (flattened, fingers uneven) and the plate was not pressing flat against the flywheel so only part of it was .

If you have a tendency to wait at the lights/junctions/etc. with the clutch pressed in all the time, there is a good chance you have a similar issue.

No slip at all, it just feels like it's not disengaging 100%, and initially the only way to get 1st or reverse was to stop the engine, engage the gear, start the engine etc etc which made getting out of the car park a bit of a faff. It seems to be slightly better so less worn after 10 miles of driving

One of my pet hates is people not using the handbrake, so either riding the clutch or blinding me with their brake lights when stopped on hills. But did the previous owner? I don't know, which is why I took out the extended warranty ....

[Cyker]

No slip at all, it just feels like it's not disengaging 100%, and initially the only way to get 1st or reverse was to stop the engine, engage the gear, start the engine etc etc which made getting out of the car park a bit of a faff. It seems to be slightly better so less worn after 10 miles of driving

Hmm... that sounds more like the hydraulics... maybe the slave cylinder is a bit dodgy or there is a tiny air bubble in the line somewhere?

Well I guess we'll find out tomorrow! :D

Keep us posted!

One of my pet hates is people not using the handbrake, so either riding the clutch or blinding me with their brake lights when stopped on hills. But did the previous owner? I don't know, which is why I took out the extended warranty ....

Yeah, I hate that too, esp. at night!

I can shut my eyes and still see the bright glow with some cars!

[GS John]

An update, the car's back together again after some "issues" with the garage carrying it out

I haven't seen the report myself from the Mr T warranty man, but apparently my claim has been declined as it was a pre-existing fault that was there at the time of purchase, something to do with the clutch springs.

I feel that now is the tiem for some legal advice

[Parts-King]

The garage is saying most warranties don't cover wear and tear items, including clutches, even from Mr T from new.

Not most but ALL warranty companies DO NOT cover anything that is worn out. If the car was like this from the day you bought it then I suggest it was inherrantly faulty and NOT down to you to pay for or towards in any way. If that is the case stand your ground and dont pay anything towards the cost. The phrase "Inherrantly faulty" should be the one to use, write to the selling garage, state that you want the clutch to be paid for by them, its not down to you if you bought it like that!

Kingo

[GS John]

The garage is saying most warranties don't cover wear and tear items, including clutches, even from Mr T from new.

Not most but ALL warranty companies DO NOT cover anything that is worn out. If the car was like this from the day you bought it then I suggest it was inherrantly faulty and NOT down to you to pay for or towards in any way. If that is the case stand your ground and dont pay anything towards the cost. The phrase "Inherrantly faulty" should be the one to use, write to the selling garage, state that you want the clutch to be paid for by them, its not down to you if you bought it like that!

Kingo

I need the car back, but will be paying by credit card, and once I have the report .....

Firstly though I will ask the supplying dealership if they have read the report (leading question time ;) ) and ask them for the comments on the cars status when I bought it, and mention "fit for use", again

[Parts-King]

Fit for use is an old fashioned term, if it needed a clutch (and the report said it was an existing condition??) then it did no "Conform to contract" Goods must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality IE NOT inherrantly faulty at the time of the sale

You can read more about the sale of goods act HERE You did not buy the vehicle new so there are allowed to be minor defects and imperfections, but it MUST conform to contract and not be inherrantly faulty

Kingo

[GS John]

The report from the warranty people, fault was caused by a faulty clutch pressure plate. They note the vehicle is recently on cover (a month ) and "in my opinion the first causes of the current failure may have been present at the time of purchase but without showing signs of any failure".

Dealership keep on quoting it's a wear item :ffs:

So, if you're going to need a warranty job, make sure you take out the warranty well before the failure

Have to decide now on whether I'm so pi55ed off with the dealership, that I take this any further.

[Parts-King]

Look its quite simple, if the car had a pre-existing condition, ie, the fault was there when you bought it then regardless of your dealer saying its wear and tear, you are entitled to have it put right

Go and see the Dealer Principle, explain they sold a car with a faulty clutch (show the report that says the fault may have been present at sale) and ask for his view. Explain (without getting shirty or shouting at him) that goods should be free from defect at the time of the sale and yours were clearly not, if he is stupid enough not to put it right then you will need to take the matter further. Put everything in writing and send it to the DP by recorded delivery and tell him he has 10 days to put the matter right or you will take futher action..............simples!

Kingo

[GS John]

Thanks Kingo

Has to be worth a letter, and I've got the bits too.

[Big Kev]

Look its quite simple, if the car had a pre-existing condition, ie, the fault was there when you bought it then regardless of your dealer saying its wear and tear, you are entitled to have it put right

Go and see the Dealer Principle, explain they sold a car with a faulty clutch (show the report that says the fault may have been present at sale) and ask for his view. Explain (without getting shirty or shouting at him) that goods should be free from defect at the time of the sale and yours were clearly not, if he is stupid enough not to put it right then you will need to take the matter further. Put everything in writing and send it to the DP by recorded delivery and tell him he has 10 days to put the matter right or you will take futher action..............simples!

Kingo

Respectfulness....