Torque Vs Bhp

[Jonny_c]

I had test drives in both 1.8 Petrol and 2.0 Diesel Avensis Tourers (t27) last week.

The 1.8 petrol felt very underpowered, having to rev the "granny" out of it to make decent progress. Whereas the 2.0 diesel just had so much more oomph.

I know it's a torque thing for diesels, but when would you feel the advantage of the extra few BHP of the petrol engine?

Has anyone driven both the 2.0 and 2.2 diesels - Is there really much difference?

Thanks

Jonny

[farhanali89]

Its pretty much flat out on the petrol, At its peak power so up top in the rev range.

The diesel has an advantage as torque is pulling power, So the diesel can pull its weight better than the petrol can. I would go for the diesel variant as more than likely the extra torque will make for a comfortable drive day to day. You will very rarely see the extra BHP unless you put them both on a drag strip.

[headhurts]

I have the 2010 2ltr diesel manual but did have a 2.2 auto on loan, my 2ltr felt more responsive from standstill but I would imagine the 2.2 would have the legs on it midrange but although I had the 2.2 for a week I only used it on country roads so could not really use it as I would have liked.

Beautiful auto box on the 2.2 but I could not really say it felt much quicker.

[T Sport 1978]

From having the Corolla T Sport which had very little torque until you hit maximum rev (6200rpm for max torque/7600rpm for max power) I have learnt that it is much too much hard work for everyday driving to have no torque available, so diesel is generally a better choice for easy/lazy driving.

You will notice power difference if you use maximum speed, but when do you really need to do that? Autobahn/track day perhaps...

In my opinion in gear acceleration is much more useful in everyday driving, therefore torque is your real friend, not power.

Just to give you an example:-

I know that i can out accelerate in gear in my Auris to my old Corolla T Sport even though the T Sport has higher power output, but eventually the Corolla will have a higher top speed (140 vs 130 mph) but when am i ever going to do 130mph? I much prefer the easy acceleration due to superior torque in the Auris... saying that i still miss the noise of the T Sport :)

As for 2.0 vs 2.2. I have driven both. 2.0 is indeed more responsive at low rpm, but when the grunt comes in the 2.2 (above 2000rpm) it is a lot more aggressive and mid range is very very quick.

[Druid Boy]

No competition here - 2.2 diesel all the way. It pulls like stink when you want it to and it cruises so easily and economically because it isn't working hard at all. My employer insists on giving us small petrol hire cars instead of bigger diesels. I always use more petrol than I would diesel and drive just the same....well sometimes. Anyway, the diesels were always always going to win the pulling competition here, they are bigger and have the benefit of a turbo.

[RAV4Len]

2.2 Diesel all the way :)

[Sam29]

If you are after speed and want to race, then go for petrol, more power on higher RPM. (if you want to race on autobahn ;)

) Due to lack of turbo, it takes time to reach to its max. power but good for racing / high speed driving (not for Uk though).

However if you want smoother ride, and better pulling power, Diesel wins.

2.0 Vs 2.2

Many others replied already. I would say if your MPG concious and after better MPG, go for 2.0, however if you are after towing something and need more agressive car, then 2.2 would do the job

Cheers.

[Daveyonthemove]

Torque is the diesel cars secret weapon. A diesel car with a lower BHP figure can often out pace a higher powered petrol car while they are moving.

I remember reading about the Fabia vRS on wikipedia and seeing that it was faster between certain speeds than a BMW M3!

Having owned one of them, i can confirm that it was surprisingly fast car, although from a standing start it wasn't due to the gearing and low rev's a diesel engine has.

The reason the 2.0 is a bit more responsive is probably due to a smaller turbo, meaning it will spool up a bit faster and provide the engine with the power that little bit faster.

[reidy]

You drive torque and race horsepower

[Cyker]

Torque abuse ftw :D

Do the 2.0/2.2 D4D not have variable turbos like the 1.4's btw?

[Stuman]

I had a 2007 2.2 diesel (150hp version) and run a 2010 2.0 diesel now and I can't say I've noticed much difference in engine performance, though I do tend to drive relatively gently. The latest 2.2 has the same power as the 2007 model, but about 10% more peak torque, so that might be evident in a back to back comparison of both the latest models. I suspect the difference would become more apparent above 2500rpm.

My wife has an Aygo (1 litre petrol) - now that is like chalk and cheese in comparison - but good fun to drive.

[Stuman]

I'm pretty sure the turbos use variable inlet vanes to improve response at varying revs.

[T Sport 1978]

The 2.2 in my T180 may have variable vane turbo, but it still lag like cr@p at low revs.

German turbos seems to be better setup, so impressed with VAG/Audi TDis with little lag.

But once on song my Auris is quite an aggressive animal, it just wakes up slowly.

[Cyker]

It does seem like Toyota have dampened down things on their newer cars, setting them up for economy more than power. I'm not sure if it's ECU tweaks or lengthening of gear ratios tho'.

I know the 90bhp 1.4 D4D in the 6-speed Mk2 Yaris doesn't actually feel much more powerful than the 74bhp in my Mk1, apparently due to the gears. May be the weight too (The Mk2 is 100kg heavier than the Mk1 IIRC?)

I had the opposite experience to you in VW Passat and Audi A3 tho'; Felt very sluggish until the turbo kicked in then suddenly I'm breaking the speed limit!

These were quite old cars with fixed turbos tho' (And they redlined over 1k rpm less than my Yaris )

One thing I love about my Yaris' 1.4 D4D is that the torque curve is very flat; it's just a wonderfully constant pull all the way :D

There is an extra surge as it goes over the magic 1800-2000rpm line where the turbo properly spins up and it doesn't tail off until you go past 3k :)

I took it up to 5k once and it still felt surprisingly willing, but the engine did sound and feel like it was about to shake itself to bits, and that was on V-Power!

(The vibration at 4k is even worse on normal diesel )

Never done it again as it drinks fuel (and oil!) like crazy when you start abusing the turbo, but it's reassuring to know what it can do.

Just staying below 2k rpm is like, 20mpg difference in this car, but it's easy to do when you have such a high torque-weight ratio :)

My brother's Corolla is the 2.0 D4D and it has the same constant pull, but with even more torque (You could tow a train with that thing! ).

I have trouble driving it smoothly because of that, and because the clutch feels like it came off giddlepin's truck

[bestseany]

I know my 2.0 petrol Avensis felt really slow after my old Mondeo TDCi 130bhp.

I've made a vow never to own another diesel though, so petrol it is.

I drove my aunty's 1.8 Avensis, and it felt very underpowered compared to my 2.0.