Time To Get Rid Of My 2009 Avensis Tourer

[Tynesider]

As pensioners now we bought our new Avensis Tourer 2.0 TR Diesel in June 2009 hoping it will last us for some time and for reliability and just standard servicing costs.

We called our local Toyota dealer for a 20.000 mile service price, normally they said £250 but we have a 'special offer' on at £207.

We booked the car in for the agreed £207.00, then we had a call saying they needed to change the brake fluid + £46, then another call the two back tyres need replacing + £122.00 Each, then ten minutes later another call the rear discs need changing + £100! We had to replace the front tyres in December (£140 each) so that means we have spent £877.00 in three weks and the cars only done 21.000 miles!

We checked when we got back our last Nissan X-Trail cost us £516.00 for 'BOTH' the 24.000 & 36.000 mile service at the local Nissan dealer and did not need replace the tyres until 41.000 mile, and never needed brake fluid changing or discs.

We do not sit at home! our average mileage per year is near 14.000, plus the car has never done more than 46mpg even on long haul trips, thats not what it says on the tin!

Sorry Toyota you are for the rich or the gullable, me thinks it's time to get rid of the car as at this rate we simply can not afford to keep it, or will go bankrupt!

I assume all Avensis owners have the same problem!

Mike

[headhurts]

Having just spent that much I would keep it.

Would the discs not have been a warranty job at that sort of mileage?

When I purchased mine it included 3 years servicing so too early for me to say much about costs as yet.

[T Sport 1978]

I think your dealer had taken you for a fool or that you just nodded your head to everything that they said was wrong.

When my dealer said i needed new brake pads and discs all round i asked for a second opinion and ended up getting another 10000 miles out of what was left.

It is your car and your money, you didnt have to pay it and should have made sure it was necessary and not regret it afterward.

If all of the above were really necessary then i would make issue with Toyota GB about how such a new car needed so much work.

Personally I have found Toyota cheap to own and service and repair.

[Heidfirst]

On Friday I booked my Avensis for it's 40,000 service next Friday - at least on my model this is the biggest service & hence should be the most expensive.

After calling 4 different Toyota dealers for quotes these ranged from £418 including consumables to £200 if I supply my own oil - guess where it's going (particularly as I picked up 6L of correct grade Mobil semi-synth for £13 on clearance before Xmas)?

That's a huge variation & 2 of those dealers are branches of the same company ~10 miles apart & their prices varied by £50!

If they'll let you it's usually well worth supplying your own oil (as long as it's appropriate grade) as thatalone can save you £40-50.

(btw iirc the 30000 service came to ~£120 plus me supplying 6L of oil - that didn't strike me as expensive for a main dealer).

Haven't replaced the rears yet but the fronts have been ~25000.

Interesting that the tyres have gone down £18 a corner in a few weeks but did the dealer say why the rears needed replacing now?

High wear due to under/over inflation, cuts or more likely in my experience "they won't make it to the next service" (in which case you wait until they need replacing & probably get another good few 1000 miles out of them)?

A 4wd like an X-trail should be easier on tyres than a fwd like a diesel Avensis especially as they'll probably have been a higher profile.

I'm expecting the dealer to advise me that mine needs new pads/discs but this seems to be more common on all brands since the move to non-asbestos friction materials.

& I've already started pricing alternatives for that eventuality.

It is considered good practice to change brake fluid every 2 years so unless your annual mileage has changed greatly you could actually argue that your Nissan dealer was negligent if they never changed it over 41,000 miles (3 years?)...

[Pat2u]

Mines a 57 plate sailed through all service and its first MOT, its in now for not pullimg EGR suspected, i think your garage has pulled a fast one on you. We too are pensioners and i think its got a good few years left before we decide to change.

[Fitter]

As pensioners now we bought our new Avensis Tourer 2.0 TR Diesel in June 2009 hoping it will last us for some time and for reliability and just standard servicing costs.

We called our local Toyota dealer for a 20.000 mile service price, normally they said £250 but we have a 'special offer' on at £207.

We booked the car in for the agreed £207.00, then we had a call saying they needed to change the brake fluid + £46, then another call the two back tyres need replacing + £122.00 Each, then ten minutes later another call the rear discs need changing + £100! We had to replace the front tyres in December (£140 each) so that means we have spent £877.00 in three weks and the cars only done 21.000 miles!

We checked when we got back our last Nissan X-Trail cost us £516.00 for 'BOTH' the 24.000 & 36.000 mile service at the local Nissan dealer and did not need replace the tyres until 41.000 mile, and never needed brake fluid changing or discs.

We do not sit at home! our average mileage per year is near 14.000, plus the car has never done more than 46mpg even on long haul trips, thats not what it says on the tin!

Sorry Toyota you are for the rich or the gullable, me thinks it's time to get rid of the car as at this rate we simply can not afford to keep it, or will go bankrupt!

I assume all Avensis owners have the same problem!

Mike

There seems to be something wrong with the pricing here. Two rear discs cannot be bought for £100 never mind the labour. I believe that it is the pads that they have changed. Brake fluid used to need changing bi-annually because it aborbed water, these days with DOT4 fluid it can go much longer and only requires the boiling point to be checked. I had a Citroen with the same fluid in it for over five years and it was still ok. My 2007 Avensis has its original fluid. When you put a car in for service, tell them to carry out the agreed service and advise you of any further work needed.

Fitter

[KenMavor]

Agreed with other posts. Garage has pulled you in. I never agree to work that is "extra" over the phone. Very often is doesn't actually need doing and/or

there is a cheaper way of getting it done. At that year of car, at that mileage I would be asking the question of Toyota as to why it needs all that

work done on it so soon. Go into the garage, make a fuss, and don't take no for an answer.

[Jamesbelfast]

Come into my parlour sais the spider to the fly - I'm sure you've heard that expression.

It is a well known ploy in the motor trade to offer reduced service costs just to get your car into their garage - then they start to fleece you.

Unless it is an obvioius safety issue never agree to additional work over the phone. Let the garage proceed with the agreed service and then present ou with a written list of additional faults stating clearly the reasons as to why such additional work is necessary.

Such a list should give the evidence as to why they believe such work is required.

For example - tyres worn beyond the legal limit - the list should state what the current tread depth actually is - after all they should have neasured them.

Changing brake fluid - is it in accordance with recommended service intervals - if so what is the recommended period.

Any decent garage will have no qualms about giving such evidence. Also it gives you the opportunity to seek a second opinion either from another dealer or independent source

I appreciate not all car owners have the necessary skills or knowledge to know the true condition of their car but in my experience many garages exploit this aspect when it comes to making money. What really angers me is they do tend to exploit the most vulnerable. Take a stand - don't be afraid to ask for pertinent information - they'll soon get the message you ain't a pushover.:)

Edit:- - when seeking a second opinion don't mention any previous findings

[Tynesider]

Hi James

Sorry I may have not put things clear, I am getting old but this pensioner did not fall off the last boat from China!

I did obviously pay for the service, but, did not tell them to do anything else and I will get a second opinion, my main point is I do not expect a list like this for a car that's eighteen months old and has done only 21.000 miles.

The Avensis is not exactly a cheap car and I had hoped for just your normal servicing, while I expected less miles before needing to change the tyres due to front wheel drive, I did not expect to do it at 21.000 miles.

My X Trail had four wheel drive but still give acceptable tyre wear, nor did the brakes need replacing nor did it need brake fluid changing at 21.000 miles, not to mention servicing was every 12.000 miles.

We like the Avensis and it drives well and It's a pity and maybe it is just me, but the car will never need a 40.000 mile service while we own it and sadley I would never recommend it to anyone due to servicing and running costs.

Mike

[Heidfirst]

My X Trail had four wheel drive but still give acceptable tyre wear,

it should give less wear on the driven wheels than an equivalent fwd (even before considering that it probably used higher profile tyres) which apparently it did.

You should expect higher wear on the driven wheels of a 2wd versus a 4wd - imo ~20,000 on the fronts wouldn't be unusual (of course some will be before & some will be after).

However, again imo getting only 21000 on the rears of a fwd car is unusual which is why I asked if they gave a suggestion as to possible cause (wear due to over/under inflation, cuts etc. or merely that they wouldn't make it to the next service).

If you do move on from the Avensis shortly (& you'll lose more in initial depreciation on your new car than servicing on the Avensis will cost) I think that you will find the situation replicated with other modern cars - the grass isn't always greener.

I don't know how rural you are but is there an other Toyota dealer that you can try?

[Druid Boy]

£46 for a brake fluid change seems reasonable but the tyres are pricey. My local toyota dealer (who gives me great prices major service less than £125 with my own oil) has recently started offering tyres and they recommend changing them when they go below 3mm of tread. People often just accept the advice and pay full price. They have offered me tyres twice now, guess what? I haven't bought any but we have haggled the price down on a set of 4 when I need them. As for brakes - disc or pads - these should not need replacing at 21,000 miles. With the exception of the brake fluid, your garage has some explaining to do - especially given the youth rather than age of your car.

[FROSTYBALLS]

About 15 months ago, when we had the front tyres replaced on our Mazda 2 (at 10,800 miles due toa tracking problem since new), I was chatting to the manager of the independent tyre factor we were using. He has one of the latest Mondeo turbo diesels, and cannot get more than 8,000 out of his front tyres. He said the days of high mileage tyres are gone. So around 14,000 for front tyres on a similar sized front wheel drive vehicle isn't bad.

However, it does sound like your dealer has (successfully) tried it on with you. Did they say what the tread depth was on the rear tyres??

[Druid Boy]

25,000 miles out of my tyres and they are still going strong! rotated front to back etc at about 15,000 miles. They can be made to last if you take a bit of care through the corners.

[Daveyonthemove]

I had a Peugeot dealer try a similar trick on me once.

Phoned me up while the car was being serviced to advise me that my front tyres were low on tread, and would need changing soon as there was only 2.5mm left on them. I had only changed them 6 months earlier and new they weren't that bad, so i told them not to change them despite their 'Warnings'.

When i got back to the garage i checked the tyres and could see that the tread wasn't even on the 1.6mm tread bar, so i got the manager to come out and measure the depth with me. Apparently the 'technician' had measured the depth left to the bar, as that was their 'policy' so i complained about how it was incorrect and that i would report them, and was suddenly offered a free service at the next interval. I got him to write me a voucher and sign it there and then, and then i proceeded to tear it up in front of him and hand it back.

There is no way i would trust that dealer again, and i never went back.

Now i ALWAYS top up screen wash, check bulbs and tyre depth the day it goes for a service so i can't be charged for anything that doesn't need doing, or be conned into paying for parts that have not needed replacing.

[Jamesbelfast]

Hi James

Sorry I may have not put things clear, I am getting old but this pensioner did not fall off the last boat from China!

I did obviously pay for the service, but, did not tell them to do anything else and I will get a second opinion, my main point is I do not expect a list like this for a car that's eighteen months old and has done only 21.000 miles.

The Avensis is not exactly a cheap car and I had hoped for just your normal servicing, while I expected less miles before needing to change the tyres due to front wheel drive, I did not expect to do it at 21.000 miles.

My X Trail had four wheel drive but still give acceptable tyre wear, nor did the brakes need replacing nor did it need brake fluid changing at 21.000 miles, not to mention servicing was every 12.000 miles.

We like the Avensis and it drives well and It's a pity and maybe it is just me, but the car will never need a 40.000 mile service while we own it and sadley I would never recommend it to anyone due to servicing and running costs.

Mike

[/quote

I didn't intend to cause any offence and if I did so I apologise.:)

Did the garage give any supporting evidence for their rcommendations?

A large mini-cab compny in my area always swore by using the Avensis as their fleet (300+) model but they too have found wear and tear regarding brakes and tyres on the newer models isn't as good as the older models.

Guess what they now started buying Skoda Octavias - not only are they cheaper to buy but cheaper to run and as they share many spares similar to VW spares are cheaper too.:)

[carinfront]

Well I am glad you did not pay for all the extras!

As mentioned before, any garage worth their beans should provide full details of whats wrong and why its wrong.

I was always under the impression that brake fluid was part of scheduled services, so unless there is a problem with it, which of course they chould tell you, it would not need replacing until the appropriate service interval.

Tyres vary wildly depending on brands and personal driving and so on, so again I would make sure the dealer gave you details of treads across the 4 tyres. I feel confident that a search on mytyres.co.uk or blackcircles.com would yield a much cheaper alternative to Mr T.

In these financial times of hardship, i look to cut costs where possible, but without compromising on quality. Most of my parts for services are oringinal Mr T parts, sourced courtesy of Parts_King on this forum, he delivers next day in most cases and is ALWAYS cheaper than any of my Toyota dealers I call to check prices. Tyres off the web, oil by shopping around and so on. I have found the Avensis to be very keenly priced for servicing. Sorry to see the dealer going down this road. I was given duff info on parts that needed replacing, and when taken for a second opinion, found out all was well. Needless to say they never saw my business again.

Having said that, I have found that the overall cost of my Toyota is getting more expensive, thanks due to the cost of fuel, for the most part, but also the CO2 levels and insurance costs are higher now comapored to alot of new cars on the market.

I am now down to my last few weeks of Toyota ownership, collecting a brand new Seat Ibiza 1.2 TSi Auto Sport in March.

Good luck in driving those costs down!

Mike

[Tynesider]

Hi James

I was repling to you last post and it disappeared??

No offence taken mate.

The garage service report on the tyres said:

Quote

Rear Left : inner 4 Middle 3 outer 2

Rear Right: inner 5 Middle 4 outer 3

Tyres have flat spots below 1.6

Unquote:

The two front Tyres I had to replace in December so are new.

They said when we picked up the car that they had re-checked the brake fluid and it would be ok until the next service.

They said the rear pads were 80% worn and recommended replacing them, so how long does the 20% last?? (I am no mechanic but would have thought the front pads would wear first).

Well I am glad you did not pay for all the extras!Quote)

No we have only paid for the service at present,what has annoyed me most is that all these bits for a car thats done only 21.000 miles,the worst part was we have had two Xtrails previously and not retired we went for the Avensis to 'save' on economy and downsize slightly, me thinks we should have had another X-Trail

Anyhow we are forwarned and thanks to all the replies for when we take it in for the 30.000 mile service (if it survives that long) :) .

Mike

[Heidfirst]

The garage service report on the tyres said:

Quote

Rear Left : inner 4 Middle 3 outer 2

Rear Right: inner 5 Middle 4 outer 3

Tyres have flat spots below 1.6

Unquote:

<SNIP>

They said the rear pads were 80% worn and recommended replacing them, so how long does the 20% last?? (I am no mechanic but would have thought the front pads would wear first).

I'm no qualified mechanic either but I'm with you on expecting the front pads to wear more & I'm wondering if the rear tyre wear & flatspots & the rear pad wear are related?

[Fluffmeister]

The Tyre prices where a rip off, I recently replaced all 4 tyres on my Wifes car, buying from Blackcircles, Yokohama A Drive's 17" £206 fitted ...... for 4 Tyres. I just put 4 x Toyo Proxes T1R's on my MX-5 (ok, only 195 - 50 - 15's) for £107 + £26 fitting from Camskill.

[Parts-King]

It's always a difficult call when pads are say 80% worn, pads are approx 10mm thick, if there are 2mm left how long will that last? the answer is nobody knows because we all drive differently in different conditions. 2mm might last me 2 years, but a rep who flies around the country might get 6 weeks As we only see customers once a year these days, it is often seen as overkill to report things that are worn, but if your pads failed 6 months later and you had to come back again for an unscheduled visit, you would not be happy. It is a best judgement call, at least you have the option to say yes or no, they didnt say they needed doing right now

Kingo

[Fluffmeister]

I blame the banning of asbestos :)

Disks are almost classed as a consumable now because pads are more abrasive in their composition to make up for the lack of asbestos. On my old (new at the time) Subaru, the disks where classed as service items and needed replacing after 12k (Front disks)

The tyre question leaves me a bit puzzled though, prior to the toyota I was running a 2.5 V6 Tdi Skoda Superb, with some minor tweaks and a custom remap and I still got 20k out of the front Pirelli P6000's. Was the tyre wear over the entire surface of the tyre, or is it a geo problem and the camber / alignment is out?

Cars based around the golf 5 platform (Mk2 Octavia, Audi A3, Mk 2SEAT Leon) do have a geometry problem that VAG won't own up to and they can be really heavy on rear tyres, with them wearing out on the inside.

In any case, I think the OP was stiffed, certainly on the tyres

[Parts-King]

I blame the banning of asbestos :)

Disks are almost classed as a consumable now because pads are more abrasive in their composition to make up for the lack of asbestos. On my old (new at the time) Subaru, the disks where classed as service items and needed replacing after 12k (Front disks)

True enough, I'm with you on that one

Toyota will not replace worn discs or pads now after 20K or 18 months, even with a 5 year warranty, they wont cover warped/worn discs/pads

Kingo

[headhurts]

the brake fluid change is a recommendation at 2 yrs so the service centre was correct to bring this to your attention.

tyres these days do not seem to have the wear rate as of yesteryear but they do grip and stop far better also cars are more powerful and faster so the wear rate would not be as it used to be.

My previous car a Jaguar used to eat tyres and some on the forum were only seeing around 10,000 miles or even less in some cases.

now i would not usually take the side of the service centre but they are damned if they do and damned if they dont.

should they have failed to bring these things to your attention you may have been railing against them should something have occured.

i do feel for you though as prices seem to be galloping well ahead of any money coming in and any money from investments but overall the toyota reputation for reliability and customer service is ahead of most, changing the car may well be far more expensive in the long run so unless you have fell out of love with the car may be worth keeping it and changing your dealership if you are not happy.

whatever you do i wish you well but lets hope you stay with toyota and this forum.

[Tynesider]

Looking on the web I found Avon ZV3 Tyres to fit the car at £113.76 each (fitted)at Blackcircle and a local dealer.

There are of course cheaper tyres like Marangoli who I have never heard of, has anyone fitted/experiance of Avon Z3 tyres before as they have a good write up for a reasonable cost?,but forwarned is forarmed!

Thanks guys

Mike

[Heidfirst]

what size/rating tyres do you need?

17" tyres as on my car are notably more than 16" & yet when I replaced mine I could get Continentals, Goodyears etc. fitted for ~£125 (& Toyota dealers were surprisingly competitive with Kwikfit, blackcircles etc.).