If Anyone Doubts The Longevity Of The Prius - Show Them This!

[Ancient Nerd]

Ancient, i can understand your comments on the warranty, however you did buy the car knowing the terms that you were buying it under.

I spent nearly 1000 pounds on a flat screen freeview tv some years ago, now they are available for a third of that price....

I spent 3000 on a holiday which, had i waited i could have got far cheaper...

I'm sorry mate, in this world you pays your money and takes your choice, sad sometimes but that's the way of the world, sometimes you win, sometimes you don't and in this case you didn't

J&T,

I cannot disagree more. The car market and the consumer electronic markets are totally different, with totally different expectations by both consumers and suppliers.

Consumer electronics have a (relatively) short life. Prices decrease rapidly over time. They improve rapidly. Most consumer electronic devices have one owner, who dumps it, typically long before it stops working. There is no established used equipment market. Secondhand prices are minimal after a short time.

Cars are expected to stay in use for a long time. They are expensive and prices increase over time. There is relatively little change from one car to the next, just a gradual improvement. During the lifetime of a typical car it will have several owners. There is a thriving market in used cars. It's value will decrease progressively during the life of the car.

Toyota have severely distorted that market by changing the warranty terms in very dubious circumstances. You may be all right jack, I am most definitely not. I expect Toyota to correct the distortion they have caused, and will make as much noise, and cause them as much inconvenience and bad PR, and take whatever legal action may be necessary to correct the problem they have caused.

It's also his choice never to purchase another Toyota!

The crappy warranty for those who purchased a Toyota before they messed things up will affect resale values and it wouldn't cost Toyota much (but would pay dividends in good will) to offer the higher warranty to the handful of customers affected.

To be honest, I didn't realise Toyota had reduced the hybrid warranty on the gen3 Prius until I joined this forum. It only affects a couple thousand gen3 Prius owners between August 2009 and March 2010. Or maybe Toyota know something we don't!?!?

Unfortunately, I like the Prius. What I don't like is the rubbish coming out of Toyota GB on the subject of the Weasel Warranties (and SatNav, winter tyres, oil grades, brake programming and anything else they can turn into a pig's ear.

As you say, Toyota GB seem determined to turn the good will of early buyers into bad PR. I don't know how much Toyota will actually make from the near 1000 GBP per car for the extended warranties needed to top up the weasel versions, but I doubt it is enough to offset the damage.

And yes, it's frustrating that I see the hybrid warranty on Gen IIs lasting 3 years/40,000 miles longer than mine. I really worry that this is a result of the more power/ more capacity/ lower weight of the hybrid power train. I'm not sure that Toyota has confidence that they haven't overdone it and there is going to be a higher failure rate.

Indeed Grumpy it is his choice. I agree, i didn't know either about the warranty problems/differences either... I suspect a high-up bean counter somewhere has committed hari kiri which is why he is no longer around to change things

I wish, but I doubt any seppuku has occurred. This problem is mostly local to Toyota GB, who don't seem to understand the Japanese ethic and won't do anything until they see their sales dropping.

There was an interesting response from Toyota GB on the weasel warranty issue some while back. I'll start a new thread sometime soon on that subject, as it merits some analysis of what it really means.

[Ancient Nerd]

To be honest, I didn't realise Toyota had reduced the hybrid warranty on the gen3 Prius until I joined this forum. It only affects a couple thousand gen3 Prius owners between August 2009 and March 2010. Or maybe Toyota know something we don't!?!?

Although there have been at least 2 price hikes since the 3 year warranty Prius so you could say that new buyers are paying for the extended warranty in the purchase price. Plus Toyota needed to chuck in some sweeteners to tempt buyers after all the recalls.

It looks that way doesn't it.

However, don't forget that the Prius is built in Japan, so a large part of the price is incured in Japan. And while the price of the Prius has increased in terms of GB Pounds, It has dropped significantly in terms of Japanese Yen. If you assume that 75% of the cost is incurred in Japan for manufacturing and shipping, and 25% in the UK for marketing, then the price was unchanged.

So the price increase, as I see it, was just to restore the status quo and absolutely nothing to do with the cost of providing a proper warranty.

[Red diesel]

Two things which may help regarding battery life.

• My last Gen II Prius is still in the family, and is now coming up to three years and 90,000 miles. There is no sign of any fall off in battery performance or capacity. MPG is also as good as ever - I would expect this to drop off if battery capacity were reduced.
  
• On the Toyota GB website, they are quoting a price of around 750 GBP (from memory), presumably plus VAT, so a bit under 1000 GBP for a replacement battery. I can't see the fitting cost being too high, as the battery looks reasonably accessible. The last diesel I had with a cambelt (Renault Laguna) needed the cambelt replacing every 70,000 miles or so at a cost North of 1000 GBP. This makes the Prius look pretty good by comparison.
  

Now if only Toyota had the faith to give us early Gen III buyers a proper warranty instead of the Weasel Warranty, I will no longer feel the need to give them the worst PR I can manage.

Presumably that was 750 GBP fitted (excluding Vat) if so thats a very good price, and of course youve none of the reliability issues of modern diesels to worry

about. Regarding the warranty - you would indeed think Toyota would offer the extra generous terms that appearently later Prius gen 3s have to owners of early

examples. Having said that - is it possible that if something were to go wrong within the time and mileage limits of the more generous warranty

on a Gen 3 with the less generous warranty terms - that maybe Toyota would sort things out on a goodwill basis.

Red diesel

[Grumpy Cabbie]

You're right that Toyota will often honour or make significant payments towards items that have failed after warranty (so long as you have been loyal and had the vehicle fully serviced by Toyota). However, this is nice in theory and I can see them being very helpful if you were unlucky enough to have a HV Battery failure at 70k miles. I would be getting a little nervous if I had a similar failure at 95k miles as this is 25k miles past my warranty, though well in the old and the newer warranty. We're caught between a rock and a hard place I think.

As I am on a hp finance deal I'd just had the car back as I would be well past the 'half payment, hand it back no questions asked' point by then. Still can't forsee a problem - it is a Toyota after all.

Anyhoo, by the time I get to 60k miles it will be towards the end of this year and I'll be planning whether to trade my Prius for either the new 7 seater Prius V (or whatever it'll be called in Europe) or the plugin Prius - both of which should be available early next year. Oh decisions decisions

[Ancient Nerd]

Presumably that was 750 GBP fitted (excluding Vat) if so thats a very good price, and of course youve none of the reliability issues of modern diesels to worry

about. Regarding the warranty - you would indeed think Toyota would offer the extra generous terms that appearently later Prius gen 3s have to owners of early

examples. Having said that - is it possible that if something were to go wrong within the time and mileage limits of the more generous warranty

on a Gen 3 with the less generous warranty terms - that maybe Toyota would sort things out on a goodwill basis.

Red diesel

I've had a search through the Toyota blog. The quoted cost for a replacement HV Battery is £736.38 plus VAT and fitting.

You are describing what I think is referred to as goodwill. However, this is totally at the discretion of Toyota, and is unlikely to apply to whoever I sell the car to. Thus it will do nothing to offset the likely heavy resale price drop compared with slightly later cars.

Also, you have to trust Toyota GB. I did once, but I no longer have any faith in their integrity. So their goodwill is worth no more than the paper it is printed on.

You're right that Toyota will often honour or make significant payments towards items that have failed after warranty (so long as you have been loyal and had the vehicle fully serviced by Toyota). However, this is nice in theory and I can see them being very helpful if you were unlucky enough to have a HV battery failure at 70k miles. I would be getting a little nervous if I had a similar failure at 95k miles as this is 25k miles past my warranty, though well in the old and the newer warranty. We're caught between a rock and a hard place I think.

As I am on a hp finance deal I'd just had the car back as I would be well past the 'half payment, hand it back no questions asked' point by then. Still can't forsee a problem - it is a Toyota after all.

Anyhoo, by the time I get to 60k miles it will be towards the end of this year and I'll be planning whether to trade my Prius for either the new 7 seater Prius V (or whatever it'll be called in Europe) or the plugin Prius - both of which should be available early next year. Oh decisions decisions

Don't forget Grumpy, if you hock the car in for a replacement at 60,000 when the weasel warranty has died, the dealer will have to provide a warranty when he resells the car - which he will not need to do for a slightly more recent model (with 40,000 miles left). The cost of that will come out of the price you get.

And if you sell privately, expect the price to have a cliff edge that reflects the lack of warranty. I certainly wouldn't buy one unless the seller had bought a 2-year extended warranty (or a 1-year at a lower price).

[Grumpy Cabbie]

aha, you're not thinking about the 'hand it back half way thru the hp' finance agreement that I have. This type of finance is no secret as it's already been discussed on here before, but some hp finance agreements allow you to hand the car back, no questions asked, halfway through so long as you've made all the payments on time.

You've got to get another finance agreement for the new car - along with a deposit, which shouldn't be too much of a problem as they'll want to sell you another car. I personally only class it as a 'get out of jail free card' if I get stuck with a useless car. So far the Prius is holding up well and I doubt I'll have to hand it back in this way - but it's always an option should I need to

Anyway, I'm sure the dealers will be falling over backwards to get another of their latest hybrids out in the area. They tell me they're one of the largest Prius sellers outside of the London/SE area. I must pass a dozen or more other Prii on the road in town every day.

(I also wonder if any of the members on here have passed me whilst I'm working?)

[Dizzo]

Hi Grumpy Cabbie

What an interesting Video. Just goes to show that Toyota can be a reliable if looked after and serviced regularly. Had my 57reg Prius now for one year, very happy with it. Just wish I could fine a good reliable warranty pack. Cheers.

Wonder how many water pumps those cabs get through! I've had my 2007 Prius a year now and its on its 3rd!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Because there'll always be a Friday afternoon car. Thing is, some manufacturers seem to have a whole working week of Friday afternoons and some other manufacturers have a Friday afternoon once in a blue moon.

Still not convinced? Why do most cab drivers (minicabs in London) have Toyota's? Hmmm I wonder!

(you don't see many Alfa Romeos, Fiats or Citroens as cabs now do you ;) )

[Dizzo]

Because there'll always be a Friday afternoon car. Thing is, some manufacturers seem to have a whole working week of Friday afternoons and some other manufacturers have a Friday afternoon once in a blue moon.

Still not convinced? Why do most cab drivers (minicabs in London) have Toyota's? Hmmm I wonder!

(you don't see many Alfa Romeos, Fiats or Citroens as cabs now do you ;) )

Spose you're right! I just hope the dealer's being straight! I'm gonna need 4 new tyres soon as well - any suggestions? I had Dunlop SP01s on a previous car which I liked, might try those instead of the standard fit Bridgestone Turanza ER300s.

[revmotors]

Just put a set of Michelin Energy Savers on mine. Bought new on eBay and had them fitted locally, so not bad value.

[Jan&tone]

Still not convinced? Why do most cab drivers (minicabs in London) have Toyota's? Hmmm I wonder!

(you don't see many Alfa Romeos, Fiats or Citroens as cabs now do you ;) )

Sorry to tell you Grumpie but locally they haven't got the message, they're all driving Skoda's, not a Toyota amongst them, mini-cabs are mostly Mondeo diesels - 3 to 5 years old with the occasional renault (sorry for swearing) megane for the extra seating...

Shame, but there you go!

[Dizzo]

Still not convinced? Why do most cab drivers (minicabs in London) have Toyota's? Hmmm I wonder!

(you don't see many Alfa Romeos, Fiats or Citroens as cabs now do you ;) )

Sorry to tell you Grumpie but locally they haven't got the message, they're all driving Skoda's, not a Toyota amongst them, mini-cabs are mostly Mondeo diesels - 3 to 5 years old with the occasional renault (sorry for swearing) megane for the extra seating...

Shame, but there you go!

Saw a lot of Prius mini-cabs in Madrid!

[johalareewi]

Spose you're right! I just hope the dealer's being straight! I'm gonna need 4 new tyres soon as well - any suggestions? I had Dunlop SP01s on a previous car which I liked, might try those instead of the standard fit Bridgestone Turanza ER300s.

Make sure you get low rolling resistance tyres to keep the mpgs up. Am looking at switching to Michelin Energy savers for the summer.

[Thrawn60]

Just incase you, your friends or family have any doubts about the longevity of the Prius, show them the video on this link!!!

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110125/bc_olsen_prius_reliability_110125/20110125?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

Just to convert for you. The mpg figures quoted are for US gallons - 40 mpg US is about 48 mpg UK. Also, 700,000 km is 434,000 miles and 1,000,000 km is 621,000 miles! So when Toyota say the battery will last the life of the car - they mean it.

Nice, if there is one thing that can convince me to change to the Prius (Already waiting to sign the order) is that a taxi driver can drive it and be happy.. if they can sit in the car can drive all those Km with out any problems, so can I :) and if it does not require more service than another taxi, then it's for me.