Avensis Starter

[thatch]

Hi...i have a 2002 avensis d4d. This last wile when i start it, it starts with what can only be described as a thud or thump...I have had the starter reconditioned twice...183k on the car. I also notice as a friend has one also that they are quite lazy to start at the best of times and takes a few turns before starting. Does this sound like a starter problem? and if so can another starter be put in other than the one recommended? to make it quicker to start. Thanks for any help...

[Big Kev]

Thatch,

Try turning over / starting with clutch fully depressed and report. If thud goes away, you may have a dragging clutch problem I had years ago, or God forbid, a flywheel problem at that mileage....?

Big Kev

[thatch]

Thatch,

Try turning over / starting with clutch fully depressed and report. If thud goes away, you may have a dragging clutch problem I had years ago, or God forbid, a flywheel problem at that mileage....?

Big Kev

Kev,

Tried that but its the same clutch pressed or not. The clutch was changed at 140k and replaced with a solid flywheel and clutch kit. To sit in the car you would actually think the engine was shaking before she starts. The car starts but for want of a better word it just seems a bit violent to start!

Paddy...

[igormus]

Hi...i have a 2002 avensis d4d. This last wile when i start it, it starts with what can only be described as a thud or thump...I have had the starter reconditioned twice...183k on the car. I also notice as a friend has one also that they are quite lazy to start at the best of times and takes a few turns before starting. Does this sound like a starter problem? and if so can another starter be put in other than the one recommended? to make it quicker to start. Thanks for any help...

hello mate

i'd consider you'd check with all four glow plugs first. Secondly -- check with compression in each cylinder.

Now it's too early to consider starter as guilty -- you'd to investigate what goes wrong from all sides. Such sound described by you is normal result of over fueling in the cylinder when one/two glow plugs are out of order. IN oder words the injectors does his job but the plug does not. Check and revert with outcome. Cheers/Igor

[thatch]

Hi...i have a 2002 avensis d4d. This last wile when i start it, it starts with what can only be described as a thud or thump...I have had the starter reconditioned twice...183k on the car. I also notice as a friend has one also that they are quite lazy to start at the best of times and takes a few turns before starting. Does this sound like a starter problem? and if so can another starter be put in other than the one recommended? to make it quicker to start. Thanks for any help...

hello mate

i'd consider you'd check with all four glow plugs first. Secondly -- check with compression in each cylinder.

Now it's too early to consider starter as guilty -- you'd to investigate what goes wrong from all sides. Such sound described by you is normal result of over fueling in the cylinder when one/two glow plugs are out of order. IN oder words the injectors does his job but the plug does not. Check and revert with outcome. Cheers/Igor

Thanks Igor... I will get this checked. Do i have to get the car put on a computer to check them?

[Big Kev]

I think my Big Mate in The Ukraine has a good point here, Thatch......too much diesel not being ignited in one or two cylinders could cause your "violent shake" on starting.

Big Kev.

[igormus]

Hi...i have a 2002 avensis d4d. This last wile when i start it, it starts with what can only be described as a thud or thump...I have had the starter reconditioned twice...183k on the car. I also notice as a friend has one also that they are quite lazy to start at the best of times and takes a few turns before starting. Does this sound like a starter problem? and if so can another starter be put in other than the one recommended? to make it quicker to start. Thanks for any help...

hello mate

i'd consider you'd check with all four glow plugs first. Secondly -- check with compression in each cylinder.

Now it's too early to consider starter as guilty -- you'd to investigate what goes wrong from all sides. Such sound described by you is normal result of over fueling in the cylinder when one/two glow plugs are out of order. IN oder words the injectors does his job but the plug does not. Check and revert with outcome. Cheers/Igor

Thanks Igor... I will get this checked. Do i have to get the car put on a computer to check them?

I do not consider the PC will show you overfueling issue but can only show a problem with glow plugs (i presume).

cheers/Igor

[thatch]

Hi...i have a 2002 avensis d4d. This last wile when i start it, it starts with what can only be described as a thud or thump...I have had the starter reconditioned twice...183k on the car. I also notice as a friend has one also that they are quite lazy to start at the best of times and takes a few turns before starting. Does this sound like a starter problem? and if so can another starter be put in other than the one recommended? to make it quicker to start. Thanks for any help...

hello mate

i'd consider you'd check with all four glow plugs first. Secondly -- check with compression in each cylinder.

Now it's too early to consider starter as guilty -- you'd to investigate what goes wrong from all sides. Such sound described by you is normal result of over fueling in the cylinder when one/two glow plugs are out of order. IN oder words the injectors does his job but the plug does not. Check and revert with outcome. Cheers/Igor

Thanks Igor... I will get this checked. Do i have to get the car put on a computer to check them?

I do not consider the PC will show you overfueling issue but can only show a problem with glow plugs (i presume).

cheers/Igor

Hi guys

Just to update today the car sometimes would'nt start at all and then leave it a wile and it would start but lazy to start. Starter was checked and its fine. Turns out it was the ignition switch at the end of the ignition barrel which toyota tell me is a common enough problem. Thankfully its sorted now so thanks guys for all your help...

Paddy...

[thatch]

Hi...i have a 2002 avensis d4d. This last wile when i start it, it starts with what can only be described as a thud or thump...I have had the starter reconditioned twice...183k on the car. I also notice as a friend has one also that they are quite lazy to start at the best of times and takes a few turns before starting. Does this sound like a starter problem? and if so can another starter be put in other than the one recommended? to make it quicker to start. Thanks for any help...

hello mate

i'd consider you'd check with all four glow plugs first. Secondly -- check with compression in each cylinder.

Now it's too early to consider starter as guilty -- you'd to investigate what goes wrong from all sides. Such sound described by you is normal result of over fueling in the cylinder when one/two glow plugs are out of order. IN oder words the injectors does his job but the plug does not. Check and revert with outcome. Cheers/Igor

Thanks Igor... I will get this checked. Do i have to get the car put on a computer to check them?

I do not consider the PC will show you overfueling issue but can only show a problem with glow plugs (i presume).

cheers/Igor

Hi guys

Just to update today the car sometimes would'nt start at all and then leave it a wile and it would start but lazy to start. Starter was checked and its fine. Turns out it was the ignition switch at the end of the ignition barrel which toyota tell me is a common enough problem. Thankfully its sorted now so thanks guys for all your help...

Paddy...

Hi guys

A further up date and the problem is still there. Today the car was starting perfect (im a taxi driver so the car is stopped and started quite a lot)i stopped for 5 mins and then it just wouldnt start no matter how many times i switched it on and off. I eventually gave it a push start and away it went and has being going good since but until i gave it the push start it wasnt going to start. I took it to a starter specialist and he says the starter is good and strong so its not it and i had it on a computer and that showed nothing. I just wish it would stop completley instaed of this as i will get stuck somehwere i cant push it! Not sure what to do at this stage...againg any help is much appreciated...also when staring it doesnt start with a thud anymore just normal.

Paddy...

[t-spiritpete]

Hi Paddy,

over time there has been a lot of talk on this forum from owners with your problem, many times the end result to solve it has been to fit a new starter motor. I'm not sure exactly why this is, maybe the starter motor is drawing to much current which takes vital voltage away from other things like solenoid valves etc which then can't operate fully to let the car start. Get someone to check how low the Battery voltage drops with a multimeter when the car refuses to start, if the Battery drops below 10 vdc then this may be the problem. I would be investigating the Battery and starter motor situation due to the fact that it starts with a push says everything to me. For a diesel engine to start it needs the pistons to compress the fuel/air ratio very quickly so if the starter or battery is suspect this won't happen.

Your problem can be explained by system developed to help petrol cars start years ago, this was the ballast resistor which worked along with the ignition coil. Basically the car had a 9 volt coil with a resistor in the 12 volt supply to drop the volts down to 9 volts for normal running but when you turned the key to the start position the resistor was bypassed giving 12 volts to the coil so if the battery volts dropped by 2 volts whilst cranking the coil still got a really good supply as it only really needed 9 volts and gave a strong spark to the plugs if you catch my meaning. Now I know your car is diesel but the components around the engine need a good 12 volts to work correctly therefore if the starter or battery is at fault the same rules apply as my explanation, sorry for the long winded reply but it is the only way I can try to explain a possible answer for you.

Regards Pete.

[acetip]

Hi Paddy,

over time there has been a lot of talk on this forum from owners with your problem, many times the end result to solve it has been to fit a new starter motor. I'm not sure exactly why this is, maybe the starter motor is drawing to much current which takes vital voltage away from other things like solenoid valves etc which then can't operate fully to let the car start. Get someone to check how low the battery voltage drops with a multimeter when the car refuses to start, if the battery drops below 10 vdc then this may be the problem. I would be investigating the battery and starter motor situation due to the fact that it starts with a push says everything to me. For a diesel engine to start it needs the pistons to compress the fuel/air ratio very quickly so if the starter or battery is suspect this won't happen.

Your problem can be explained by system developed to help petrol cars start years ago, this was the ballast resistor which worked along with the ignition coil. Basically the car had a 9 volt coil with a resistor in the 12 volt supply to drop the volts down to 9 volts for normal running but when you turned the key to the start position the resistor was bypassed giving 12 volts to the coil so if the battery volts dropped by 2 volts whilst cranking the coil still got a really good supply as it only really needed 9 volts and gave a strong spark to the plugs if you catch my meaning. Now I know your car is diesel but the components around the engine need a good 12 volts to work correctly therefore if the starter or battery is at fault the same rules apply as my explanation, sorry for the long winded reply but it is the only way I can try to explain a possible answer for you.

Regards Pete.

your electrian would i am sure have checked this but is the earth cable earthed ok.is the earth cable to the engine

at both ends nice and tight.is there any signs of the corroding on the earth cable from the Battery to the chassis & engine to the chassis.

[t-spiritpete]

Hi Paddy,

over time there has been a lot of talk on this forum from owners with your problem, many times the end result to solve it has been to fit a new starter motor. I'm not sure exactly why this is, maybe the starter motor is drawing to much current which takes vital voltage away from other things like solenoid valves etc which then can't operate fully to let the car start. Get someone to check how low the battery voltage drops with a multimeter when the car refuses to start, if the battery drops below 10 vdc then this may be the problem. I would be investigating the battery and starter motor situation due to the fact that it starts with a push says everything to me. For a diesel engine to start it needs the pistons to compress the fuel/air ratio very quickly so if the starter or battery is suspect this won't happen.

Your problem can be explained by system developed to help petrol cars start years ago, this was the ballast resistor which worked along with the ignition coil. Basically the car had a 9 volt coil with a resistor in the 12 volt supply to drop the volts down to 9 volts for normal running but when you turned the key to the start position the resistor was bypassed giving 12 volts to the coil so if the battery volts dropped by 2 volts whilst cranking the coil still got a really good supply as it only really needed 9 volts and gave a strong spark to the plugs if you catch my meaning. Now I know your car is diesel but the components around the engine need a good 12 volts to work correctly therefore if the starter or battery is at fault the same rules apply as my explanation, sorry for the long winded reply but it is the only way I can try to explain a possible answer for you.

Regards Pete.

your electrian would i am sure have checked this but is the earth cable earthed ok.is the earth cable to the engine

at both ends nice and tight.is there any signs of the corroding on the earth cable from the Battery to the chassis & engine to the chassis.

Acetip, whilst I agree about the earth cable don't you think then and according to your comments that the autoelectrician would have checked that then!

Question ...... why is it when people like me on here try to give advice that you have to disagree, after 40 years of working on vehicles I do know just a little bit about them!

[thatch]

Hi Paddy,

over time there has been a lot of talk on this forum from owners with your problem, many times the end result to solve it has been to fit a new starter motor. I'm not sure exactly why this is, maybe the starter motor is drawing to much current which takes vital voltage away from other things like solenoid valves etc which then can't operate fully to let the car start. Get someone to check how low the battery voltage drops with a multimeter when the car refuses to start, if the battery drops below 10 vdc then this may be the problem. I would be investigating the battery and starter motor situation due to the fact that it starts with a push says everything to me. For a diesel engine to start it needs the pistons to compress the fuel/air ratio very quickly so if the starter or battery is suspect this won't happen.

Your problem can be explained by system developed to help petrol cars start years ago, this was the ballast resistor which worked along with the ignition coil. Basically the car had a 9 volt coil with a resistor in the 12 volt supply to drop the volts down to 9 volts for normal running but when you turned the key to the start position the resistor was bypassed giving 12 volts to the coil so if the battery volts dropped by 2 volts whilst cranking the coil still got a really good supply as it only really needed 9 volts and gave a strong spark to the plugs if you catch my meaning. Now I know your car is diesel but the components around the engine need a good 12 volts to work correctly therefore if the starter or battery is at fault the same rules apply as my explanation, sorry for the long winded reply but it is the only way I can try to explain a possible answer for you.

Regards Pete.

your electrian would i am sure have checked this but is the earth cable earthed ok.is the earth cable to the engine

at both ends nice and tight.is there any signs of the corroding on the earth cable from the Battery to the chassis & engine to the chassis.

Acetip, whilst I agree about the earth cable don't you think then and according to your comments that the autoelectrician would have checked that then!

Question ...... why is it when people like me on here try to give advice that you have to disagree, after 40 years of working on vehicles I do know just a little bit about them!

Thanks guys...

I have not had the chance to get the car tested by an auto electrician yet. My mechanic originally thought it was the starter. It only does it when its warm and never first thing in the morning. The Battery is strong so im going to get the starter tested tomorrow. If it is the starter can it be reconditioned or does it have to be a new one?

Paddy..

[igormus]

Hi Paddy,

over time there has been a lot of talk on this forum from owners with your problem, many times the end result to solve it has been to fit a new starter motor. I'm not sure exactly why this is, maybe the starter motor is drawing to much current which takes vital voltage away from other things like solenoid valves etc which then can't operate fully to let the car start. Get someone to check how low the battery voltage drops with a multimeter when the car refuses to start, if the battery drops below 10 vdc then this may be the problem. I would be investigating the battery and starter motor situation due to the fact that it starts with a push says everything to me. For a diesel engine to start it needs the pistons to compress the fuel/air ratio very quickly so if the starter or battery is suspect this won't happen.

Your problem can be explained by system developed to help petrol cars start years ago, this was the ballast resistor which worked along with the ignition coil. Basically the car had a 9 volt coil with a resistor in the 12 volt supply to drop the volts down to 9 volts for normal running but when you turned the key to the start position the resistor was bypassed giving 12 volts to the coil so if the battery volts dropped by 2 volts whilst cranking the coil still got a really good supply as it only really needed 9 volts and gave a strong spark to the plugs if you catch my meaning. Now I know your car is diesel but the components around the engine need a good 12 volts to work correctly therefore if the starter or battery is at fault the same rules apply as my explanation, sorry for the long winded reply but it is the only way I can try to explain a possible answer for you.

Regards Pete.

your electrian would i am sure have checked this but is the earth cable earthed ok.is the earth cable to the engine

at both ends nice and tight.is there any signs of the corroding on the earth cable from the Battery to the chassis & engine to the chassis.

Acetip, whilst I agree about the earth cable don't you think then and according to your comments that the autoelectrician would have checked that then!

Question ...... why is it when people like me on here try to give advice that you have to disagree, after 40 years of working on vehicles I do know just a little bit about them!

Thanks guys...

I have not had the chance to get the car tested by an auto electrician yet. My mechanic originally thought it was the starter. It only does it when its warm and never first thing in the morning. The Battery is strong so im going to get the starter tested tomorrow. If it is the starter can it be reconditioned or does it have to be a new one?

Paddy..

sure

the starter reconditioning is normal practice.

So, leave this job for electrical shop/electrisian

cheers/Igor

[pajjy]

Hi Paddy,

over time there has been a lot of talk on this forum from owners with your problem, many times the end result to solve it has been to fit a new starter motor. I'm not sure exactly why this is, maybe the starter motor is drawing to much current which takes vital voltage away from other things like solenoid valves etc which then can't operate fully to let the car start. Get someone to check how low the battery voltage drops with a multimeter when the car refuses to start, if the battery drops below 10 vdc then this may be the problem. I would be investigating the battery and starter motor situation due to the fact that it starts with a push says everything to me. For a diesel engine to start it needs the pistons to compress the fuel/air ratio very quickly so if the starter or battery is suspect this won't happen.

Your problem can be explained by system developed to help petrol cars start years ago, this was the ballast resistor which worked along with the ignition coil. Basically the car had a 9 volt coil with a resistor in the 12 volt supply to drop the volts down to 9 volts for normal running but when you turned the key to the start position the resistor was bypassed giving 12 volts to the coil so if the battery volts dropped by 2 volts whilst cranking the coil still got a really good supply as it only really needed 9 volts and gave a strong spark to the plugs if you catch my meaning. Now I know your car is diesel but the components around the engine need a good 12 volts to work correctly therefore if the starter or battery is at fault the same rules apply as my explanation, sorry for the long winded reply but it is the only way I can try to explain a possible answer for you.

Regards Pete.

your electrian would i am sure have checked this but is the earth cable earthed ok.is the earth cable to the engine

at both ends nice and tight.is there any signs of the corroding on the earth cable from the Battery to the chassis & engine to the chassis.

Acetip, whilst I agree about the earth cable don't you think then and according to your comments that the autoelectrician would have checked that then!

Question ...... why is it when people like me on here try to give advice that you have to disagree, after 40 years of working on vehicles I do know just a little bit about them!

[acetip]

hi pete,

sorry that ive just noticed your post,also sorry if you think i had disagreed with you cos i dont.just the opposite.

like yourself have worked on vehicles for many years. in my case 54 years.glad i am retired, as they are so much more complicated than they used to be.life was so much simpler when i started out.

[t-spiritpete]

hi pete,

sorry that ive just noticed your post,also sorry if you think i had disagreed with you cos i dont.just the opposite.

like yourself have worked on vehicles for many years. in my case 54 years.glad i am retired, as they are so much more complicated than they used to be.life was so much simpler when i started out.

Hello Acetip, We are all entitled so our opinion that's what the forum is for and how it works so if I read your reply in the wrong way then fair enough I apologise.

I would just like to add that trying to fault find a members car sat in a chair on at PC is not an easy task, I can't see or hear the car in question, I can't talk to the person who drives the car.

I have to look back at my time in the trade and try to give the best advice I can from past experience so unless it a straight forward black and white question the reply I give has to be as near as I can get with the information given and as clear as possible, now here another problem arises ..... I don't know how much the person knows about cars so I could insult them giving simple advice, so I try to avoid the obvious which may not cover what you wanted to say.

Pete.

[acetip]

hi pete,

sorry that ive just noticed your post,also sorry if you think i had disagreed with you cos i dont.just the opposite.

like yourself have worked on vehicles for many years. in my case 54 years.glad i am retired, as they are so much more complicated than they used to be.life was so much simpler when i started out.

Hello Acetip, We are all entitled so our opinion that's what the forum is for and how it works so if I read your reply in the wrong way then fair enough I apologise.

I would just like to add that trying to fault find a members car sat in a chair on at PC is not an easy task, I can't see or hear the car in question, I can't talk to the person who drives the car.

I have to look back at my time in the trade and try to give the best advice I can from past experience so unless it a straight forward black and white question the reply I give has to be as near as I can get with the information given and as clear as possible, now here another problem arises ..... I don't know how much the person knows about cars so I could insult them giving simple advice, so I try to avoid the obvious which may not cover what you wanted to say.

Pete.

hi again

your correct,the is no substetuts for hands on when fault finding.though at times when you have problem and think about it away from the job something clicks and you have the answer.

[thatch]

hi pete,

sorry that ive just noticed your post,also sorry if you think i had disagreed with you cos i dont.just the opposite.

like yourself have worked on vehicles for many years. in my case 54 years.glad i am retired, as they are so much more complicated than they used to be.life was so much simpler when i started out.

Hello Acetip, We are all entitled so our opinion that's what the forum is for and how it works so if I read your reply in the wrong way then fair enough I apologise.

I would just like to add that trying to fault find a members car sat in a chair on at PC is not an easy task, I can't see or hear the car in question, I can't talk to the person who drives the car.

I have to look back at my time in the trade and try to give the best advice I can from past experience so unless it a straight forward black and white question the reply I give has to be as near as I can get with the information given and as clear as possible, now here another problem arises ..... I don't know how much the person knows about cars so I could insult them giving simple advice, so I try to avoid the obvious which may not cover what you wanted to say.

Pete.

hi again

your correct,the is no substetuts for hands on when fault finding.though at times when you have problem and think about it away from the job something clicks and you have the answer.

Hi guys

Finally got it sorterd! It was the starter...you were spot on pete thanks! I got the starter reconditioned and the car is staring better than ever...thanks everyone for your help...once again this website has been great...

Paddy...