Keyless Entry Not So Smart.

[monya]

Says in the Sunday Times motoring section p4-5 that naughty people have found a way around the security of keyless entry fobs using about £30 of electronics. Apparently once the engine is running, the fob doesn't need to be present. Seems you can protect your fob by putting it in a metal container, presumably made of kryptonite. However, this might just defeat the purpose.. Oh well, there you go or not, if the cars' gone. Priuses were mentioned as one was used to demo. the technique.

[acetip]

Says in the Sunday Times motoring section p4-5 that naughty people have found a way around the security of keyless entry fobs using about £30 of electronics. Apparently once the engine is running, the fob doesn't need to be present. Seems you can protect your fob by putting it in a metal container, presumably made of kryptonite. However, this might just defeat the purpose.. Oh well, there you go or not, if the cars' gone. Priuses were mentioned as one was used to demo. the technique.

my auris is keyless.

noticed you can get out with engine running and walk well out of range of any signal from the key (thats in my pocket)you get a couple of warning buzzes when you first get out,but thats it.

when first got car being so quiete got out and left engine running while messing around in garage.

but is push button start any real advantage over using key.only thing is you dont have to find a keys up before using car as the fobs always in my pocket.

[Opifex]

Hi Monya,

The motoring section in our thin French edition of Sunday Times (costing about £4-50!!) only carries Jeremy’s car review so can you give us a bit more detail please. Where does the metal container come into it?

[monya]

Hi Monya,

The motoring section in our thin French edition of Sunday Times (costing about £4-50!!) only carries Jeremy’s car review so can you give us a bit more detail please. Where does the metal container come into it?

For the theft to work, someone has to obtain wireless communication with the fob so if you can shield it, there shouldn't be a problem. Apparently the fobs work off the same frequencies as chips built into passports etc so there are already some shields on the market eg Ogon RFID wallet from clickshop.com. Metal acts as a shield apparently. Toyota claims its not aware of any of its cars being stolen using this scam which should make you feel heaps better.

[strawberry]

I've tried to leave the following comment on the 'New Prius ,Everything you need to know ' site, but site suspiciously not allowing any access . Hmmmm

What are Toyota GB s comments in regards to the article in the Sunday Times , entitled Open, sesame the magic car thieves . Which outlines the undetectable approach car thieves adopted to stealing a new Prius is a few minutes .

Seems the same protection as the Ogon is available from an empty tin of 90p Altoids , presumably which you need to have to hand just in case your car is stolen and you give yourself a sore throat swearing

[stompe]

I've tried to leave the following comment on the 'New Prius ,Everything you need to know ' site, but site suspiciously not allowing any access . Hmmmm

What are Toyota GB s comments in regards to the article in the Sunday Times , entitled Open, sesame the magic car thieves . Which outlines the undetectable approach car thieves adopted to stealing a new Prius is a few minutes .

Seems the same protection as the Ogon is available from an empty tin of 90p Altoids , presumably which you need to have to hand just in case your car is stolen and you give yourself a sore throat swearing

They dont like it up em! Strawberry :D

[Doesn'tExist]

Hi Monya,

The motoring section in our thin French edition of Sunday Times (costing about £4-50!!) only carries Jeremy's car review so can you give us a bit more detail please. Where does the metal container come into it?

For the theft to work, someone has to obtain wireless communication with the fob so if you can shield it, there shouldn't be a problem. Apparently the fobs work off the same frequencies as chips built into passports etc so there are already some shields on the market eg Ogon RFID wallet from clickshop.com. Metal acts as a shield apparently. Toyota claims its not aware of any of its cars being stolen using this scam which should make you feel heaps better.

But if you shield it it won't work as keyless entry? Also RFID is a very short range technology and the rolling codes so someone to intercept what is going on, and everything can be cracked, I know I do it for a living in an ethical way. It seems to be a bit far fetched to be a serious thread. Same stories happened with the RF systems and the irDA before that.

This afternoon our Prius shutdown when I walked away. My wife was driving but I had the keys in my pocket and walked out to the cashpoint, our prius shutdown when I got out of range. I even heard the beep when I was doing it.

[monya]

Hi Monya,

The motoring section in our thin French edition of Sunday Times (costing about £4-50!!) only carries Jeremy's car review so can you give us a bit more detail please. Where does the metal container come into it?

For the theft to work, someone has to obtain wireless communication with the fob so if you can shield it, there shouldn't be a problem. Apparently the fobs work off the same frequencies as chips built into passports etc so there are already some shields on the market eg Ogon RFID wallet from clickshop.com. Metal acts as a shield apparently. Toyota claims its not aware of any of its cars being stolen using this scam which should make you feel heaps better.

But if you shield it it won't work as keyless entry? Also RFID is a very short range technology and the rolling codes so someone to intercept what is going on, and everything can be cracked, I know I do it for a living in an ethical way. It seems to be a bit far fetched to be a serious thread. Same stories happened with the RF systems and the irDA before that.

This afternoon our Prius shutdown when I walked away. My wife was driving but I had the keys in my pocket and walked out to the cashpoint, our prius shutdown when I got out of range. I even heard the beep when I was doing it.

I don't know if it's far fetched - just flagging up the article from the motoring section. No need to shoot the messenger

[Opifex]

But if you shield it it won't work as keyless entry? ......... It seems to be a bit far fetched to be a serious thread. Same stories happened with the RF systems and the irDA before that.

Hmmm, I had the same feelings about the shield and whether the story had been hyped up by the journalist. I have just been reading a book by Ben Goldacre which is devoted to exposing the mistakes that journalists make when reporting science stories, sometimes with the deliberate aim of creating another scare story. After all, a story around "Prius security can't be broken" wouldn't sell many papers.

Though I do find that there is one problem with the system. My last two cars both had the habit of sometimes leaving one or more doors unlocked, so I got into the habit of walking round the car and trying them all before leaving it. With the Prius, of course, I can't do this because the front doors will open as long as I have the key. Does this worry anyone else? In Decmber I did have one door that failed to unlock one morning but was alright after lunch and has been OK since.

[Seamaster73]

We had all this years ago with scare stories about "code grabbers" cloning alarm fobs. Theoretically possible. In practice, given that the villain would have to be as close to the car as you to pull it off, unlikely.

Nothing new under the sun, and all that.

[Doesn'tExist]

I don't know if it's far fetched - just flagging up the article from the motoring section. No need to shoot the messenger

I wasn't shooting anyone you sensitive one

[Doesn'tExist]

Though I do find that there is one problem with the system. My last two cars both had the habit of sometimes leaving one or more doors unlocked, so I got into the habit of walking round the car and trying them all before leaving it. With the Prius, of course, I can't do this because the front doors will open as long as I have the key. Does this worry anyone else? In Decmber I did have one door that failed to unlock one morning but was alright after lunch and has been OK since.

What I find is that the car makes a noise when a door is not closed and you try and lock it. But also just after you pressed your thumb on the system you can just yank the door handle to check whether it is closed without opening it again. And of course with the rear passenger doors you can do that at any time.

[RobMagpie]

I always check the rear passenger door but remember if you have locked the doors when driving to unlock them all first or the rear passenger door will be locked but the drivers door may not.

[strawberry]

I managed to get this reply from Toyota today .

Damian Pang says:

February 7, 2011 at 11:27

All models in the Toyota range exceed the highest security rating set by Thatcham (The Motor Insurance Repair Research Centre).

As mentioned in the article, we are not aware of any cases affecting our customers in the UK. Toyota GB continues to work with independent security experts, the police and insurance industry to ensure we gain the fullest possible awareness of trends and techniques, feeding all learning’s directly back into product design to ensure we miminise the risk of theft on all our vehicles.

Reply

[woody1]

I read this too and it is clear that is is a real threat.

[kithmo]

I read this too and it is clear that is is a real threat.

It's no more of a threat than someone hijacking the signal from any remote locking fob on any car and it's only a threat if you leave valuables in the car. They can't start the car without the fob inside the car.

[Opifex]

It's no more of a threat than someone hijacking the signal from any remote locking fob on any car and it's only a threat if you leave valuables in the car. They can't start the car without the fob inside the car.

I would suggest you don't leave anything on view not just valuables. We had a car broken into because the kids bags had been left on the back seats. It was a company car so they took care of the repairs to the car and the monetary value of the bags and contents was only £30, but there was an awful lot of stress caused to the family and time wasted covering the broken window with polythene to get us home from holiday.

[Doesn'tExist]

I always check the rear passenger door but remember if you have locked the doors when driving to unlock them all first or the rear passenger door will be locked but the drivers door may not.

Why if you lock from the drivers door in that circumstance it is not like it locks the drivers door and unlocks the rest of the doors. Those old fashioned mechanical systems have been gone for decades now. The system is a lot cleverer than that.

[Jan&tone]

It's no more of a threat than someone hijacking the signal from any remote locking fob on any car and it's only a threat if you leave valuables in the car. They can't start the car without the fob inside the car.

I would suggest you don't leave anything on view not just valuables. We had a car broken into because the kids bags had been left on the back seats. It was a company car so they took care of the repairs to the car and the monetary value of the bags and contents was only £30, but there was an awful lot of stress caused to the family and time wasted covering the broken window with polythene to get us home from holiday.

absolutely agree, NOTHING should be left on view, whether it is valuable or not. The scroats will break in to a vehicle at the drop of a hat, you should do nothing to encourage them!

[acetip]

the keylees entry on auris may or may not be the same in all instances as a prius.

but as i mentioned on a earlier post,once the engine is running,you can walk as far away as like and it will still be running,after a couple of warning buzzes.

althoug the range for the fob is within a few feet of the car.if the lock/unlock buttons on the fob are used they have very large range.my car can be in the garage and i stand outside the other end of the house,making 4 walls between the fob and the car,i can still operate the cars door locks.

[Doesn'tExist]

the keylees entry on auris may or may not be the same in all instances as a prius.

but as i mentioned on a earlier post,once the engine is running,you can walk as far away as like and it will still be running,after a couple of warning buzzes.

althoug the range for the fob is within a few feet of the car.if the lock/unlock buttons on the fob are used they have very large range.my car can be in the garage and i stand outside the other end of the house,making 4 walls between the fob and the car,i can still operate the cars door locks.

that is very similar, although our Prius switches off when walking away from it. for the rest you are describing the exact characteristics of NFC and RF which are the respective technologies used.

[kithmo]

the keylees entry on auris may or may not be the same in all instances as a prius.

but as i mentioned on a earlier post,once the engine is running,you can walk as far away as like and it will still be running,after a couple of warning buzzes.

althoug the range for the fob is within a few feet of the car.if the lock/unlock buttons on the fob are used they have very large range.my car can be in the garage and i stand outside the other end of the house,making 4 walls between the fob and the car,i can still operate the cars door locks.

that is very similar, although our Prius switches off when walking away from it. for the rest you are describing the exact characteristics of NFC and RF which are the respective technologies used.

My Prius doesn't switch off after you walk away, it just beeps 3 times to let me know it's still switched on. Once you've started the car anyone can drive off in it without the key, they won't be able to re-start it after they've switched it off but they can go as far as they want from the key. Also you can't lock it if it's still switched on.

Acetip, do you have X-ray vision you can see through 4 walls ?

[acetip]

the keylees entry on auris may or may not be the same in all instances as a prius.

but as i mentioned on a earlier post,once the engine is running,you can walk as far away as like and it will still be running,after a couple of warning buzzes.

althoug the range for the fob is within a few feet of the car.if the lock/unlock buttons on the fob are used they have very large range.my car can be in the garage and i stand outside the other end of the house,making 4 walls between the fob and the car,i can still operate the cars door locks.

that is very similar, although our Prius switches off when walking away from it. for the rest you are describing the exact characteristics of NFC and RF which are the respective technologies used.

My Prius doesn't switch off after you walk away, it just beeps 3 times to let me know it's still switched on. Once you've started the car anyone can drive off in it without the key, they won't be able to re-start it after they've switched it off but they can go as far as they want from the key. Also you can't lock it if it's still switched on.

Acetip, do you have X-ray vision you can see through 4 walls ?

no i am sorry to say i dont have x ray viision,could find it handy though.

but i have a wife who can watch the cars indicators flashing when the car locks/unlocks whilst i am behind the four walls pressing buttons.