D4D Timing

[muddy90]

Hi, Does anyone know what the engine timing should be on a 2004 1.4 D4D yaris engine (T2). It wont stop smoking tickover is all over the place, it lacks power on acceleration and going up hills ( as i live in sheffild its all hills). I have done the usual new air filter, oil & filter, fuel filter , replaced the EGR valve , had the injectors tested , had it on two different diagnostic machines says its running fine,had an auto electrician check the wiring loom and ecu, Checked all the hoses, talked to the toyota main dealer who couldn't help "because they never go wrong" (not helpfull at all). I'm all out of ideas if its not the timing. not to mention out of money. Any help on this would be appreciated . Many thanks.

[siray123]

ignition timing?

[muddy90]

ignition timing?

Yes please, no one seems to know how many degrees btdc. or they're not telling me.

[Madasafish]

Hmm.

The engine is controlled by the ECU and that takes signals from the crankshaft sensor to tell it where the engine is in its rotation cycle. The timing cannot be altered in any other way except by the ECU.

Since it has been tested to show no electrical faults...then we have zero chance of finding out what is wrong.

Is the smoke white or black? Does it happen all the time?

If you talk to Toyota and not pay them money they are hardly likely to help you for nowt....

Whose diagnostic machines tested it? Proper diesel experts with experience of Toyota diesels?

How were the injectors tested? By removing and testing on a test bed?

When you changed the fuel filter, did you bleed the fuel system?

What is the service history? How many miles has it done? What state is the exhaust system? A blocked catalyst could give your symptoms...

I'm struggling here as your story is incomplete..

[siray123]

They only way you could monitor it is via an OBD2 reader, i have torque for my android phone and its great using a cheap bluetooth OBD2 dongle (£20, app £2). TBH i don't know a lot about diesels, mainly petrols. I bet its around 5deg on idle.

[muddy90]

Hmm.

The engine is controlled by the ECU and that takes signals from the crankshaft sensor to tell it where the engine is in its rotation cycle. The timing cannot be altered in any other way except by the ECU.

Since it has been tested to show no electrical faults...then we have zero chance of finding out what is wrong.

Is the smoke white or black? Does it happen all the time?

If you talk to Toyota and not pay them money they are hardly likely to help you for nowt....

Whose diagnostic machines tested it? Proper diesel experts with experience of Toyota diesels?

How were the injectors tested? By removing and testing on a test bed?

When you changed the fuel filter, did you bleed the fuel system?

What is the service history? How many miles has it done? What state is the exhaust system? A blocked catalyst could give your symptoms...

I'm struggling here as your story is incomplete..

well for the full story it would be like reading war and peace. the injectors were tested by Hoggs of sheffield that are Bosch injector specialist removed and tested on a test bed. the diagnostics were done by Paul Craig diesel specialists and North Midland auto electricians ( i didn't just stick a pin in the yellow pages) and when i went to toyota i was paying them for a new EGR valve and i paid for the tech spec web page and the technicians i talked to said none of them had worked on a D4D they also told me there was no torque settings on a injector clamp but there is 26nm so i dont really trust them too much. when i changed the fuel filter yes the system was bled. It smokes nearly all the time too varying degrees below 2500 revs its mainly white after that its black, fuel mpg is about 38 at the minute. i have taken it for runs on the motorway with various injector cleaners (cataclean , Forte and redex) and it still smokes all the time during and after, tick over is always lumpy . Ithink at some time in the past someone has played with it because i changed the thermostat and the core was missing also there are paint markers all over the engine, it does tally with the numbers on the log book. The thing i'm looking at is everyone these days is computer happy and just because the ECU isnt reading a problem doesn't mean there isn't one, this as i said is last chance saloon i've tried everything i can think of i've put other posts on the forum asking about the smoking but it seems i have the only malfunctioning D4D in existance . I can't afford to keep throwing money at it.Thanks for any info

[Madasafish]

Ahh thanks for that . White smoke suggests fuelling.

If the engine has been rebuilt it is possible that the cam timing has been reassembled one cog out. I would think that is a last resort..

Much more likely: Mass Air Flow Meter. Dirty. Or knackered. Does not come up in diagnostics. Clean carefully with carb cleaner... (It's on engine side of air filter with wires attached..) Obvious first step , easy to do and cheap. Symptons are poor idle....and poor fuel consumption (you should get at least 50mpg) and loss of power. You may need a new sensor.. see eBay..

Engine temperature sensor if faulty would mean the engine always gets a rich mixture. Check outputs when cold and hot with a multimeter. I would expect diagnostics would have showed any fault.

Try Mass Air Flow Meter cleaning first. Be very careful. The heated wire is very easy to damage...Carb cleaner and a cotton bud and a light touch...

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[muddy90]

Ahh thanks for that . White smoke suggests fuelling.

If the engine has been rebuilt it is possible that the cam timing has been reassembled one cog out. I would think that is a last resort..

Much more likely: Mass Air Flow Meter. Dirty. Or knackered. Does not come up in diagnostics. Clean carefully with carb cleaner... (It's on engine side of air filter with wires attached..) Obvious first step , easy to do and cheap. Symptons are poor idle....and poor fuel consumption (you should get at least 50mpg) and loss of power. You may need a new sensor.. see ebay..

Engine temperature sensor if faulty would mean the engine always gets a rich mixture. Check outputs when cold and hot with a multimeter. I would expect diagnostics would have showed any fault.

Try Mass Air Flow Meter cleaning first. Be very careful. The heated wire is very easy to damage...Carb cleaner and a cotton bud and a light touch...

|

Cheers for that, i should have put down that i'd done the air mass meter but as you say if its knackered i wont know untill its replaced.I'd have thought like you say that if it had been re-assembled one cog out one of the mechanics would have noticed. Still onwards and upwards.

[acetip]

you say the EGR has been replaced,how bad was it.if pretty sooted up,then so will the inlet manifold be.

not saying this is your problem though, but a clean out would do no harm.

[johnan]

ignition timing?

Yes please, no one seems to know how many degrees btdc. or they're not telling me.

Diesels do not have "ignition" as in a petrol engine, so there is no btdc figure to be quoted!

The fuel/air mixture in a diesel is ignited by compression causing spontaneous combustion of the mixture, or by fuel being injected into hot compressed air.

The amount of fuel and the timing of the injection is controlled by the ecu.

[acetip]

ignition timing?

Yes please, no one seems to know how many degrees btdc. or they're not telling me.

Diesels do not have "ignition" as in a petrol engine, so there is no btdc figure to be quoted!

The fuel/air mixture in a diesel is ignited by compression causing spontaneous combustion of the mixture, or by fuel being injected into hot compressed air.

The amount of fuel and the timing of the injection is controlled by the ecu.

as you say timing is controled by the ecu.

but on early diesels there was injection timing,if the timing marks were missing.you would use whats called spill timing.but you would need to know the BTC before doing it.

[muddy90]

you say the EGR has been replaced,how bad was it.if pretty sooted up,then so will the inlet manifold be.

not saying this is your problem though, but a clean out would do no harm.

i thought of that but on the exploded diagram and having had a look, the inlet manifold is cast with the head so its an expensive check. To be honest i don't think it was the EGR valve as i have the same problem with the new one and the old one didn't seem that bad and when i had the valve off i had a look inside the inlet and it didn't look coked up, i tried cleaning it with a home made poker but it seemed ok. . Sorry i did say the full story was an epic and i have done things to it i have forgotten about to try and fix it. Cheers

[muddy90]

ignition timing?

Yes please, no one seems to know how many degrees btdc. or they're not telling me.

Diesels do not have "ignition" as in a petrol engine, so there is no btdc figure to be quoted!

The fuel/air mixture in a diesel is ignited by compression causing spontaneous combustion of the mixture, or by fuel being injected into hot compressed air.

The amount of fuel and the timing of the injection is controlled by the ecu.

Yes it is as you say but surely there must be a check to see if the the engine was re-assembled and the mechanic put it one cog out without taking it to bits and the technical data available on this engine is minimal. As i say i cannot afford to keep throwing money at this thing. This is grasping at straws but i'm running out of ideas. Cheers