Compressor Syncro Problem

[Rob1980]

As some of you may be aware, I bought my Compressor from a Nissan dealer a few weeks ago. I noticed that there was a slight crunch when changing from 2nd to 3rd but this does not happen with any other gear. People on here have suggested that the syncro was on the way out.

I arranged for the Nissan dealer to take it back and repair the syncro, I dropped it off today. Anyway they have just called me to say that they have noticed the slight crunch but the technition thinks its nothing to worry about so please come and collect the car. I have said to them that no other car I have ever owned has done it and that I am not happy with it. He is going to talk to the technition again and call me back.

When he calls back do you think that I should mention that I have asked questions on here and been told it IS something to worry about and that I want it fixed under their warranty or just put up with it so just go and collect the car?

[mr-p]

dont have it!!!! nothing wrong if there was nothing wrong there would be no sound!!! main dealers get me soooo mad!!! if its only from 2nd to 3rd and there is no other issues like heavy pedal or a stiff gear change then its most likely the syncro on its way, the only real way to tell is take the gearbox out!! make them fix it mate

[Rob1980]

dont have it!!!! nothing wrong if there was nothing wrong there would be no sound!!! main dealers get me soooo mad!!! if its only from 2nd to 3rd and there is no other issues like heavy pedal or a stiff gear change then its most likely the syncro on its way, the only real way to tell is take the gearbox out!! make them fix it mate

I think I will do mate. Not only can you hear a slight crunch but you can feel it through the gear stick too. At first they tried to say that it was not doing it! It happens all the time, not just from cold! From what I can gather this is a common fault and does need fixing...

[mr-p]

yep should be a nice change, no vibration in the gear stick at all just a nice flowing gear change, i defiantly wouldn't have it, just some tech that probably dont know what a gearbox is! as most main dealers will send it to a specialist

[Rob1980]

Right they have just called me back and said that the Tech refuses to fault it and he only deems it to be a bit notchy. I said nothy is one thing but a clear crunch from second to 3rd is another! I have mentioned the Syncros and they are saying that they will strip the gearbox but if no fault is found then I will have to pay! Im not sure how to go about this as all I want is the crunch to go away and thats what I have told them. Its not correct and needs fixing. Im worried that they will strip it and say there is no fault, I mean I cant say 100% that it is the syncro. Also how could I prove otherwise if they sneakly repaired it?? Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

The manager is going to call me now... Wonder what he will say.

[mr-p]

:censor: tell them you want you money back and you will take your hard earned money elsewhere they will soon fix it! there should be no sound at all ! nothing ! im a veh tech and a gearbox should not crunch, if it was anything to do with the clutch it would do it in every gear ! you shouldn't have to pay for them to investigate it after all the customer is always right! that what you have a warrenty for, money grabbin :ffs:

[mr-p]

this is taken from the celica 2zz ge toyota workshop manual but am sure its the same gear box, there is like 40 pages on diagnosing and removing/replacing the gearbox!

TROUBLESHOOTING

PROBLEM SYMPTOMS TABLE "

Use the table below to help you find the cause of the problem. The numbers indicate the priority of the likely cause of the problem. Check each part in order. If necessary, replace parts.

Symptom

noise

1. Oil (Level low)

2. Oil (Wrong)

3. Gear (Worn or damaged)

4. Bearing (Worn or damaged)

oil leakage

1 . Oil (Level too high)

2. Gasket (Damaged)

3. Oil seal (Worn or damaged)

4. 0-Ring (Worn or damaged)

hard to shift, will not shift

1. Control cable (Faulty)

2. Synchronizer ring (Worn or damaged)

3. Shifting key spring (Damaged)

jumps out of gear

1 . Locking ball spring (Damaged)

2. Gear shift fork (Worn)

3. Gear (Worn or damaged)

4. Bearing (Worn or damaged)

[Rob1980]

this is taken from the celica 2zz ge toyota workshop manual but am sure its the same gear box, there is like 40 pages on diagnosing and removing/replacing the gearbox!

TROUBLESHOOTING

PROBLEM SYMPTOMS TABLE "

Use the table below to help you find the cause of the problem. The numbers indicate the priority of the likely cause of the problem. Check each part in order. If necessary, replace parts.

Symptom

noise

1. Oil (Level low)

2. Oil (Wrong)

3. Gear (Worn or damaged)

4. Bearing (Worn or damaged)

oil leakage

1 . Oil (Level too high)

2. Gasket (Damaged)

3. Oil seal (Worn or damaged)

4. 0-Ring (Worn or damaged)

hard to shift, will not shift

1. Control cable (Faulty)

2. Synchronizer ring (Worn or damaged)

3. Shifting key spring (Damaged)

jumps out of gear

1 . Locking ball spring (Damaged)

2. Gear shift fork (Worn)

3. Gear (Worn or damaged)

4. Bearing (Worn or damaged)

So going by this as what I am hearing/feeling it would fall in the hard to shift category?

This table is really helpful, thank you.

[mr-p]

no probs i will try and upload the whole file a bit later

[ricc]

as said earlier on, if your unhappy with the car and it has a fault, tell them to fix it or you want a full refund.

not surprised the tech is claiming no issue, gearbox diagnostics/rebuilds are very heavy on 'job hours'.

id be tempted to drive to toyota, go to the service department and ask if one of their techs or senior chaps can take a sit in your car and see if they feel the issue. they would be in a much better position to know having actually worked with the corollas on a regular basis. then depending on their opinion, go back and talk to the nissan garage and advise them that its the belief of a toyota tech there IS an issue.

If you dont feel your getting the support you deserve from nissan, go up the ladder through the management until someone is able to satisfy your concerns.t

[Rob1980]

as said earlier on, if your unhappy with the car and it has a fault, tell them to fix it or you want a full refund.

not surprised the tech is claiming no issue, gearbox diagnostics/rebuilds are very heavy on 'job hours'.

id be tempted to drive to toyota, go to the service department and ask if one of their techs or senior chaps can take a sit in your car and see if they feel the issue. they would be in a much better position to know having actually worked with the corollas on a regular basis. then depending on their opinion, go back and talk to the nissan garage and advise them that its the belief of a toyota tech there IS an issue.

If you dont feel your getting the support you deserve from nissan, go up the ladder through the management until someone is able to satisfy your concerns.t

Thanks for the advice, its very helpful.

I have a feeling that I will have a fight on my hands. The manager is now dealing with it and he is getting it looked at. Not sure by who as I assume it will still be the same people, his techs! I am going to say either fix it or refund me, I dont think that taking it to Toyota is worth it as I will have to pick it up unfixed, pay to take it too Toyota then take it back again once proved. The Nissan Dealer is 60 miles from me as well. its a shame as other than the gearbox fault it is a lovely car.

[ricc]

in that case, id suggest talking to the manager at nissan first thing in the morning. politely advise him that you do not feel the car IS fault free and that if the situation were not to be resolved to your satisfaction, you would be looking into returning the vehicle.

however, it may be prudent to investigate as much as possible this evening, the laws etc that apply to refunds and vehicle faults. the general forum on here may well be the beter option, theres a lot of knowledgable people on here that could potentially be able to fill you in on what your rights are. at present im in the mind that without concrete proof that the car does or does not have a fault, you might not have the rights to demand a refund. its one of those situations where its not undriveable, its not constantly breaking down, its not throwing error messages here there and everywhere, so as far as the garage is concerned it is fit for purpose. .... but as i said, not exactly 100% on the rights you have at this stage.

it may be that your only right is to have it put into writing that the gearbox will be warranted for a longer period or something. but who knows. ask the clever peoples :D

[Rob1980]

Yeah that all makes sense. I seem to remember that by the law you have to give them the chance to fix the problem, you cant just take it back. In this instance though they are refusing to accept that there is a fault so in their eyes there is nothing to fix! Maybe I should suggest to the manager that I will take it to Toyota and if they deem that there is a fault that he refunds me the cost of going to Toyota and then repairs it. that way I am making him realise that there is a fault and I will give him the chance to rectify it.

[215 compressor]

The answer that ricc gave regarding that the car is still doing the job it was designed to do has hit the nail on the head.i had the same fault with my compressor gear box and toyota changed 3rd gear and syhcro it was better but ended up just the same after a while took it back and was told they had done all they could do. contacted toyota customer serbiced and like ricc said if its not breaking down and you can still drive it theres not a lot they can do.basicly what it means is toyota havent made a modified syvhro to rectify this problem.the other thing worth a try is to try changing gearbox oil which may improve it but i doubt will cure it.

[Rob1980]

The answer that ricc gave regarding that the car is still doing the job it was designed to do has hit the nail on the head.i had the same fault with my compressor gear box and toyota changed 3rd gear and syhcro it was better but ended up just the same after a while took it back and was told they had done all they could do. contacted toyota customer serbiced and like ricc said if its not breaking down and you can still drive it theres not a lot they can do.basicly what it means is toyota havent made a modified syvhro to rectify this problem.the other thing worth a try is to try changing gearbox oil which may improve it but i doubt will cure it.

So you are saying that this gearbox requires rebuilding with a new syncro every so often through out its life and I will just have to live with it? Thats poo!

[rallyfan1986]

I would take it to toyota, pay £40 for a half hour diagnostic (one of toyotas guys will come out for a drive with you)

If they say there is a fault, its £40 well spent, take it to nissan and tell them there is a fault - youve had it diagnosed by toyota.

If toyota say its fine, then youve got nothing to worry about

[leepulsar]

if u just bought the car and it will have a 12 months used car warranty on it im pretty sure u can take the car to any garage u like to get repaired inc a toyota dealer plus rather a toyota dealer did the repair

[tccom]

The answer that ricc gave regarding that the car is still doing the job it was designed to do has hit the nail on the head.i had the same fault with my compressor gear box and toyota changed 3rd gear and syhcro it was better but ended up just the same after a while took it back and was told they had done all they could do. contacted toyota customer serbiced and like ricc said if its not breaking down and you can still drive it theres not a lot they can do.basicly what it means is toyota havent made a modified syvhro to rectify this problem.the other thing worth a try is to try changing gearbox oil which may improve it but i doubt will cure it.

So you are saying that this gearbox requires rebuilding with a new syncro every so often through out its life and I will just have to live with it? Thats poo!

this is why compressors go through many owners in a short amount of time,i was the 4th owner of my last one on a 56 plate and i had it 2.5 years.

[blutto]

2nd to 3rd used to have a little clunck on my T Sport every now and then not a grind not audible just could feel it thruogh the gear stick, was never a problem. The Comp dose exactley the same but again dose'nt seem to be a problem, for now at least.

[farhanali89]

C64 Gearbox is rubbish, they dont last very long 3rd gear is the most likely to go and cause problems, Cant blame the dealers as its not bad enough to replace them. One of the big problems with these cars is that.

[ricc]

thats a bit of a broad and misleading statement! the gearbox is far from rubbish. (6th gear cruising rpm aside!)

the inherent problem with forums is that they only tend to be aware of the issues, not the cars out there running without the faults people highlight.

[farhanali89]

Its true...lotus and celica guys use the same box go onto a lotus forum and see how many gearbox rebuilds there are. The common 3rd gear syncro always goes.

3rd gear syncro is the size of an oreo....for a car pushing 190bhp its not going to last

[mr-p]

i agree with ricc its a very good gearbox plenty strong enough, the main reason syncros go is because people change gear to fast after booting it in second not letting the clutch and engine speeds match to get a good gear change! Because lets be honest second and third are the best gears!

[hertsnminds]

If you feel it is too bad to drive the car then stop driving it. Take it back to the dealer tell them the fault makes it un-drivable and you will collect the car when it is fixed. If you keep using it the garage can claim there might be a fault but it is not so bad that you can't use the car.

[Parts-King]

I have never seen so many conflicting things on what to do....this IS a problem with forums

This is what you should do

1. You need to establish is there a fault? You say yes, the dealer says no

2. Get an independant report by one of the motoring organisations, making them aware of the specific fault. YOU will have to pay for the report. OR Pay your local Toyota dealer to do the same thing, either way you will have to pay. You could ask the Nissan dealer to pay this for you, he might, but if not you could sue him later for the cost

3. If it comes back as the gearbox is faulty, then inform your Nissan dealer IN WRITING the results. Give him a time period, say 28 days to put the car right, if he does not, then you would have grounds to reject the car but this is to be avoided if at all possible.

Keep calm, try and work with the dealer, be reasonable, its easy to get all worked up, DONT, if you have an independant report that says the gearbox is faulty then they dont have a lot of choice. Remind them of your costs incurred and that you will want this refunding. Rejecting the car is a stressful hassle you could do without and is not as easy with a used car. Get everything in writing and sent by recorded delivery but do it sooner rather than later, keep any correspondance and make a note of dates and times of phone calls or visits to the dealer. This all needs doing SOONER rather than later

Kingo