Spongy Brake Pedal Rav 4

[Pietra12]

Bit of a question, does the brake pedal on your Rav 4 feel a little long, or spongy? We bought our 2003 Rav 4 about a month ago and the brakes are Ok, but I just get the impression they could be better. The garage tested them and said that they were fine (but then they would, wouldn't they) I think they could do with bleeding. I may bleed the system and see if that helps, anything I should watch out for when bleeding the system?

[IanXT4]

Before bleeding I would just check around the callipers for any sign of brake fluid leaks. Also check basic brake operation, with the engine off, after a few pumps on the pedal it should feel rock hard. If you then keep your foot on the pedal and switch on the engine the pedal should go down.

If your car has not had a brake fluid change in the last two years, bleeding is also a good opportunity to change the fluid. I use a suitably trained wife on the pedal and 1 litre of brake fluid.

Very straight forward, just be very careful you keep the reservoir topped up. I found out the hard way that the fluid intake point is very near the low mark :ffs:

I also always put a thick yellow pages (1 inch) between the floor and the brake pedal. I remember somewhere reading that this help stops damage to the seals in the master cylinder. (Stops the piston going way past its normal end point)

If you have the time when you bleed the brakes I have found its a good idea to remove the pads, clean everything and re-grease:

Sliding pins etc

There are a couple of great brake DIY's for the 4.2 RAV in the pinned technical section.

[Big Kev]

Some good stuff from Ian XT4, AND THE YELLOW PAGES ONE IS A CRACKER...one for the memory.

Our resident brakes guru hereon, Anchorman, explained to me at great length the idiosyncrasies of the Rav's braking system, which I also thought was a wee bit on the negative/spongy side. It has come to pass, however, that he is right....these brakes would stand the car on its nose when pushed hard...!

After the winter we've all just had, with melting snow and megapuddles full of diluted spilled engine oil and diesel, it would not surprise me if your pads are absolutely bowfin'(not in the Oxford Dictionary....?) and in need of either a good clean and dry as suggested, or indeed replacement.

After 18 months I have come to trust that slight spongy feeling as being the norm, but I took some verbal and practical convincing.

Big Kev

[bothwell_buyer]

Some good stuff from Ian XT4, AND THE YELLOW PAGES ONE IS A CRACKER...one for the memory.

Our resident brakes guru hereon, Anchorman, explained to me at great length the idiosyncrasies of the Rav's braking system, which I also thought was a wee bit on the negative/spongy side. It has come to pass, however, that he is right....these brakes would stand the car on its nose when pushed hard...!

After the winter we've all just had, with melting snow and megapuddles full of diluted spilled engine oil and diesel, it would not surprise me if your pads are absolutely bowfin'(not in the Oxford Dictionary....?) and in need of either a good clean and dry as suggested, or indeed replacement.

After 18 months I have come to trust that slight spongy feeling as being the norm, but I took some verbal and practical convincing.

Big Kev

So thats what happened to a neighbours stone wall then!

[Pietra12]

Thanks folks, very usefull. I'm with you on the convincing Kev... in the words of 'Commissario Montalbano'... " Non mi faccio persuaso" (not in the Italian dictionary!

'Bowfin'not heard that in a while, I used to run into the railway works in Glasgow on every Sunday for about 4 years with spare bits for trains... I bet its closed now. Then into Caberboard in Stirling for a load home (ish) the chip shop there was my first experience of deep fried pizza..

[Salixarbour]

My wifes 10 year old RAV4 (2005 model) had been suffering from the classic spongy brakes syndrome: With the ignition off, the brake pedal would feel solid, and the same after the ignition key was turned to the first position. However, the very instant the engine was started, the brake pedal would sink halfway to the floor, and give the feeling that the system had air in it; pumping the pedal would bring it back to the top, but only for a few seconds.

After finding a one-liner solution on another blog, I decided to re-post the fix, the simple work I did, and confirm that it had worked. The brakes are now 100% solid and efficient again! My wife is very impressed!

The problem had been going on for several months, and even after a couple of visits to the local garage, the problem persisted.

Getting straight to the point, the problem is caused by corrosion of the calliper pins. These are relatively easily removed, cleaned and replaced.

If, like myself, youre happy to change the front pads, and feel competent to undertake this task, then just the one further step is required; that being to remove any rusted and obstinate calliper pins. There are two on each side, and in my case, it was the lower one on both sides which had seized.

Important, dont forget to crack open the top of your brake fluid reservoir before starting, and to place an old towel etc., underneath to catch any fluid which may overspill during pushing the pistons back in.

My wifes RAV4 has the floating calliper design something fairly ordinary, but something which Id failed to appreciate. The calliper component which you remove to change the pads actually floats on greased moving pins. You may not realise this at first I didnt. These pins arent visible or totally obvious, but once the two small calliper securing bolts (two on each side) have been removed and the initial calliper part removed allowing you full access to change the pads for example, youll notice there are two hex bolt-heads remaining. These are the pins! Each head has a threaded hole in it, which you can only see by sticking your head right into the wheel-well and looking back at the inside aspect of the brake assembly. The smaller bolts (already removed) had been screwed into this larger threaded bolt-head (the floating pins).

In my case, the top pins on either side were sliding fine, and by using a 17mm ring spanner and wiggling them clockwise/anti-clockwise, I was able to pull them out, just for a practice run. Theyre a good tight fit, should be laced in grease, and offer some suction resistance when removing and replacing. The little rubber seals are no problem, just make sure theyre reseated properly.

The lower pins however, were seized solid! To remove these, I had to spray WD40 under the rubber seals, then wiggle them back and fro with that 17mm ring spanner. I had to repeat this process for a good 20 minutes on each pin to remove them. In fact, on one side, I had to ask my wife to do the wiggle :-) whilst I gently tapped (with hammer and screw driver) the seized pin out from its location.

Once out, I cleaned each pins surface rust away by a bit of gentle filing, re-greased the pin shafts, and re-inserted them back into their holes. They will go in fairly easily, although I did have to wiggle and push again with that 17mm ring spanner.

And thats it! All that remains is the normal re-assembly of the rest of the brake components yknow, filing down lugs, copper-slip here and there, faffing with shims etc. :-(

Just to add, in my case, the inside brake pads (piston side) were completely worn almost to the metal, whilst the outside pads still virtually retained their original thickness! This is the result of the floating calliper not actually floating, because of seized pins! Its a clever design which allows the single piston to both push the inner pad onto the disk, whilst pulling the outside pad onto the disk with equal force. It only works of course if those pins arent seized.

Hope this helps.