You Might Want To Read This

[stompe]

My response about my complaints from Toyota GB only after writing to Chief Executive of Toyota GB.

Stompe

letter.pdf

[Chris Dance]

You have satisfaction over the Sat/Nav update Stompe so that is good.

Sadly it looks as if the warranty issue will not be resolved.

Please let me know what version of map they update your Sat/nav to.

When I ordered the new Gen 3 the salesman did not know the Sat/Nav could be updated by them. That is why I need to check the latest Sat/Nav maps etc are installed when the car is delivered at the end of the month. The dealer seemed to be in the "dark" about the Sat Nav.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

You call that a response? Could have done better myself. I bet nothing changes and they'll carry on as before. From that blase response it sounds like they couldn't care less about the Sat Nav updates. Hey they update them frequently once a year! My TomTom gets updated 4 times a year for about £30 and I only paid £120 for the SatNav, not £1,000.

Don't get me started on their sh*te response regarding lowering and then increasing the hybrid warranty on their earliest gen3's. "Customers with vehicles registered between 1- August 2009 and 30 June 2010 have the option, via a Toyota Centre, to upgrade their Hybrid Battery Warranty to Byrs / 100k for £195" but we'll keep our gob shut about it so most of them won't realise. How about a good will gesture to show faith in their flagship model? No, you'll have to fork out £200 if you ever decide to contact your dealer. The "if you don't like it you can always go get stuffed" is a great attitude!

You'd have thought that Toyota would have learnt lessons from last years recall debarkle but it appears blase, couldn't care less attitude goes to the very top. Shame really. All those brainy designers and engineers in Japan being let down by a p*** poor attitude at certain Countries head offices. Sure there are worse companies than Toyota, but I'm sure there are a few more who are better.

Looks like a quality product such as the Prius is holding up a shower of <the spuds of lurrrrvve> jugglers - which is Toyota UK's headoffice.

[Ancient Nerd]

You call that a response? Could have done better myself. I bet nothing changes and they'll carry on as before. From that blase response it sounds like they couldn't care less about the Sat Nav updates. Hey they update them frequently once a year! My TomTom gets updated 4 times a year for about £30 and I only paid £120 for the SatNav, not £1,000.

Don't get me started on their sh*te response regarding lowering and then increasing the hybrid warranty on their earliest gen3's. "Customers with vehicles registered between 1- August 2009 and 30 June 2010 have the option, via a Toyota Centre, to upgrade their Hybrid Battery Warranty to Byrs / 100k for £195" but we'll keep our gob shut about it so most of them won't realise. How about a good will gesture to show faith in their flagship model? No, you'll have to fork out £200 if you ever decide to contact your dealer. The "if you don't like it you can always go get stuffed" is a great attitude!

You'd have thought that Toyota would have learnt lessons from last years recall debarkle but it appears blase, couldn't care less attitude goes to the very top. Shame really. All those brainy designers and engineers in Japan being let down by a p*** poor attitude at certain Countries head offices. Sure there are worse companies than Toyota, but I'm sure there are a few more who are better.

Looks like a quality product such as the Prius is holding up a shower of <the spuds of lurrrrvve> jugglers - which is Toyota UK's headoffice.

I have to agree with you about the regards in which Toyota GB holds its customers. If you want to make your feelings felt, the writer of the letter is jenny DOT shipley AT tgb.toyota.uk. I have also been discussing the issue of the Toyota Weasel Warranty with her, and was expecting a reply. I will remind her.

I also have to follow up a case of the Toyota Weasel Extended Warranty. It looks as though the advertised feature of the extended warranty to apply from the end of the standard 3 year warranty (for a Gen II, not the Gen III weasel version), regardless of mileage, is another Toyota scam. The one year extended warranty extended the standard warranty from 60,000 miles to a few days over three years, not four years as advertised on all the Toyota literature. As soon as I've got the paperwork from the family member who now owns it, I will advise him on small claims court procedures.

[stompe]

This is not the last of it guys I just want to get my SatNav updated first and then I will proceed with the warranty. Could be a small claim court issue like Ancient Nerd. Will keep you posted

Chris I will post the SatNav update on here tomorrow for you and others.

Stompe

[Seamaster73]

That's a pretty shabby response.

In fairness, as a prospective Prius customer, my interactions with Toyota GB have been good. It will be very disappointing if their attitude is subsequently one of "we've had your money, now f*** off". Especially given my experience of four years of Mercedes ownership — the aftersales experience with them has been, at times, astounding.

[Ancient Nerd]

This is not the last of it guys I just want to get my SatNav updated first and then I will proceed with the warranty. Could be a small claim court issue like Ancient Nerd. Will keep you posted

Chris I will post the SatNav update on here tomorrow for you and others.

Stompe

Hi Stompe,

The small claims track at the County Court looks like the best option if Toyota continue to follow the same approach as they have followed with the various recalls. In my case this happens later this year when I hit 60,000 miles.

However, it is probably worth writing to your supplying dealer warning him that you require the same warranty as current cars. And that you will take whatever action is necessary to achieve this. Very short very much to the point, Two sentences max.

Then include a second letter, very boldly labelled "Without Prejudice", and possibly watermarked with it as well. This is a negotiating letter that can't be used in court - if it comes to that. Tell them what you will settle for. This probably is a two year extended warranty, plus Battery warranty both at no charge. If appropriate, feel free to apologize for doing this as it is Toyota GB who are behaving like idiots, but your contract is with the dealer, so it is the dealer you must deal with. Be sympathetic. This really isn't the dealer's fault, other than in selling Toyota cars!

I have used this approach a very few times, always where I have been in the right, with 100% success. It is not something to use lightly, because it is very expensive for a company to defend, so they won't defend if they think they are likely to lose.

Otherwise, keep posting, anywhere and eveywhere. Tell people what a rubbish company is behind the scenes, and how much they care for their customers. Complete the AutoExpress and What Car questionnaires, there isn't likely to be much more drop in residuals, and they could well improve if Toyota realises what it has been doing (flying pigs?)

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I like your style Mr Nerd.

Being a lazy, erm I mean busy cabbie could you let me know some letter wordings I could use?

I'm assuming it would cost the Toyota more than £200 to go to court and as such in their favour to give you the warranty?

[Ancient Nerd]

I like your style Mr Nerd.

Being a lazy, erm I mean busy cabbie could you let me know some letter wordings I could use?

I'm assuming it would cost the Toyota more than £200 to go to court and as such in their favour to give you the warranty?

Hi GC,

This weasel warranty is making me think I should become Grumpy Old Nerd.

There was some discussion about these issues on the Parkers Forum (of Parker's Guide). They became the leaders on Renaiult issues, when Renault were having real problems with just about everything, but especially turbo failures on their diesels. Those that know were suggesting that the likely cost of defending a small claims action was around £2000 (and probably rather more now as a result of inflation). I think it was as the result of a few threats of action that Renault eventually extended the turbo warranty to five years (from three), and were replacing both engines and turbos as a result. They realised that it made no sense to keep defending unwinnable court cases. They also realised that fleet buyers were less than impressed at dropping residuals, and had to take some action to avoid fleet buyers not touching Renault Lagunas with the proverbial bargepole.

I've found a pair of letters I used in a previous problem. I'll anonymise and post them. It may be a day or two.

Also most Trading Standards departments have a website that gives you very good outline letters. Just fill in the specifics.

[cbcdesign]

This is not the last of it guys I just want to get my SatNav updated first and then I will proceed with the warranty. Could be a small claim court issue like Ancient Nerd. Will keep you posted

Chris I will post the SatNav update on here tomorrow for you and others.

Stompe

Hi Stompe,

The small claims track at the County Court looks like the best option if Toyota continue to follow the same approach as they have followed with the various recalls. In my case this happens later this year when I hit 60,000 miles.

However, it is probably worth writing to your supplying dealer warning him that you require the same warranty as current cars. And that you will take whatever action is necessary to achieve this. Very short very much to the point, Two sentences max.

I don't think a person would get far with a small claims court unless Toyota sold a vehicle with a particular warranty then retrospectively replaced their warranty with a lesser one. The fact that they chose to extend the warranty beyond a certain date is irrelevant. They can do so if they so choose and it has no effect on any previous warranties or offers they made.

The success or failure of any such claim would depend if Stompe was misled or miss-sold the car. If so, a claim may well be worth pursuing but if a customer is aware of the terms and conditions that apply at the time a sale is made, the customer cannot retrospectively claim that the sale or warranty on offer at that time was unfair just because new offers are available on new sales at a later date.

You can try causing a stink but the risk is that the might of Toyota decides that actions taken are or have damaged their business and you find yourself on the end of a law suit.

I would be very careful and seek some free advice from a solicitor before embarking on any form of litigation against Toyota or one of their dealers, if only to make sure you are aware of the potential consequences or where you stand in law.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

And I suppose the warranty is irrelavent as its a Toyota and they have a 150k mile warranty in the USA.

If mine starts to play up after warranty I'll try the dealers first and if they don't play ball I'll just hand the car back under the HP agreement.

Not expecting any issues but still not keen on Toyotas blase attitude. Maybe this is why I'm grumpy! lol

[hertsnminds]

In fairness, as a prospective Prius customer, my interactions with Toyota GB have been good

And that is the big difference before you buy something you deal with the sales team and all they have to do is convince you to buy the product. Once you have made the purchase you are dealing with a completely different and less well paid team of people. Compare the sales and marketing budgets of most companies with the service and support budgets then spot the difference.

I have found you will get more response from a marketing department to a complaint than a service department. If the PR machine thinks they are going to get some bad press they have the bucks to do something about it.

[kithmo]

This is not the last of it guys I just want to get my SatNav updated first and then I will proceed with the warranty. Could be a small claim court issue like Ancient Nerd. Will keep you posted

Chris I will post the SatNav update on here tomorrow for you and others.

Stompe

Stompe, did you not have the offer of 3 years free servicing with your 3 years warranty ?

I bought my T-spirit in May 2010, 3 weeks before the 5 year warranty became standard and I was offered 5 years warranty or 3 years warranty & 3 years free servicing, I opted to take the latter. The only thing I don't understand is why, prior to 1st June 2010, they only gave 5 years on the Hybrid system when the Gen 2 was 8 years.

[stompe]

This is not the last of it guys I just want to get my SatNav updated first and then I will proceed with the warranty. Could be a small claim court issue like Ancient Nerd. Will keep you posted

Chris I will post the SatNav update on here tomorrow for you and others.

Stompe

Stompe, did you not have the offer of 3 years free servicing with your 3 years warranty ?

I bought my T-spirit in May 2010, 3 weeks before the 5 year warranty became standard and I was offered 5 years warranty or 3 years warranty & 3 years free servicing, I opted to take the latter. The only thing I don't understand is why, prior to 1st June 2010, they only gave 5 years on the Hybrid system when the Gen 2 was 8 years.

Hi Kithmo

No I did not get that offer but I got two years free servicing, superguard paint protection and interior protection. At no time was there an offer of a 5 year warranty. I naturally assumed when they extended the warranty period, they would backdate it to when I bought the car in October 2009 to no avail. I still feel cheated and Toyota GB Customer Service is not what it used to be. Bearing in mind all of the aggravation we have had with the Gen 3 Prius , i.e. oil, brakes, warranty, sat nav, you would have thought they might have been more amenable but ha ho seems now they are not bothered about Customer Service only about selling.

Stompe

[stompe]

You have satisfaction over the Sat/Nav update Stompe so that is good.

Sadly it looks as if the warranty issue will not be resolved.

Please let me know what version of map they update your Sat/nav to.

When I ordered the new Gen 3 the salesman did not know the Sat/Nav could be updated by them. That is why I need to check the latest Sat/Nav maps etc are installed when the car is delivered at the end of the month. The dealer seemed to be in the "dark" about the Sat Nav.

Hi Chris

I have just had the Sat Nav updated and the information is as follows:

2010-2011 Ver 1

Gracenote Ver. 02421

Stompe

[Chris Dance]

Thanks Stompe, your reply much appreciated. I will check what Sat/Nav is supplied with the new car when it arrives. I hope it will be the latest one.

[cbcdesign]

This is not the last of it guys I just want to get my SatNav updated first and then I will proceed with the warranty. Could be a small claim court issue like Ancient Nerd. Will keep you posted

Chris I will post the SatNav update on here tomorrow for you and others.

Stompe

Stompe, did you not have the offer of 3 years free servicing with your 3 years warranty ?

I bought my T-spirit in May 2010, 3 weeks before the 5 year warranty became standard and I was offered 5 years warranty or 3 years warranty & 3 years free servicing, I opted to take the latter. The only thing I don't understand is why, prior to 1st June 2010, they only gave 5 years on the Hybrid system when the Gen 2 was 8 years.

Hi Kithmo

No I did not get that offer but I got two years free servicing, superguard paint protection and interior protection. At no time was there an offer of a 5 year warranty. I naturally assumed when they extended the warranty period, they would backdate it to when I bought the car in October 2009 to no avail. I still feel cheated and Toyota GB Customer Service is not what it used to be. Bearing in mind all of the aggravation we have had with the Gen 3 Prius , i.e. oil, brakes, warranty, sat nav, you would have thought they might have been more amenable but ha ho seems now they are not bothered about Customer Service only about selling.

Stompe

I am afraid backdating an offer is a very rare event indeed for most companies. On the plus side, I think the track record for the Battery in the prius coupled with the way in which they very carefully manage it makes it highly unlikely that you will have a problem with it. They seem to be very reliable which makes one wonder why they reduced the warranty in the first place. They have scored an own goal in that respect I think.

[Wirelad]

Hi all,

First post after taking delivery of new Prius T Spirit last Friday. Loving the car so far and am starting to get used to it (I think)

Just thought it was worth confirming that the Sat Nav is same version as that Stompe has posted today so anyone taking delivery in near future should have that version at least.

Cheers

[Red diesel]

Unfortunately Ms i don't give a :censor: about the customers even though im in customer relations Jenny has a point

regarding how you were (appearently) happy to buy the car with the crap standard 3 year 60 000 mile warranty. Toyota in their misguided

wisdom will say that you were sold the car with the crap warranty and you bought it - so tough luck.

In saying that its a stupid attitude for Toyota to take - especially seeing that they had to call back early Gen 3s to fix the brakes, they

should have offered the 5 year warranty at that time to all Gen 3 customers seeing that the cars were all in warranty and everything.

Had to laugh about the Laguna comments though - lol, thats the job take manufacturer to court each time and soon its cheaper and easier to fix

the cars lol. Tell you something wierd though - theres a surprising amount of 01 and 02 Lagunas around my area lol, id have thought with their

reliability records that theyd have being all scrapped by now lol. In saying that however - on another forum i browse on (but not a member on)

one of the members appearently has a Laguna II (the really troublesome ones) that hes appearently owned from new with 240 000 miles plus on

the clock and it hasn't given a bit of trouble (it was a petrol though).

Red diesel

[Ancient Nerd]

Unfortunately Ms i don't give a :censor: about the customers even though im in customer relations Jenny has a point

regarding how you were (appearently) happy to buy the car with the crap standard 3 year 60 000 mile warranty. Toyota in their misguided

wisdom will say that you were sold the car with the crap warranty and you bought it - so tough luck.

In saying that its a stupid attitude for Toyota to take - especially seeing that they had to call back early Gen 3s to fix the brakes, they

should have offered the 5 year warranty at that time to all Gen 3 customers seeing that the cars were all in warranty and everything.

Had to laugh about the Laguna comments though - lol, thats the job take manufacturer to court each time and soon its cheaper and easier to fix

the cars lol. Tell you something wierd though - theres a surprising amount of 01 and 02 Lagunas around my area lol, id have thought with their

reliability records that theyd have being all scrapped by now lol. In saying that however - on another forum i browse on (but not a member on)

one of the members appearently has a Laguna II (the really troublesome ones) that hes appearently owned from new with 240 000 miles plus on

the clock and it hasn't given a bit of trouble (it was a petrol though).

Red diesel

Hi Red D.

The interesting thing with the Laguna (and yes, it was a Laguna II). All the problems were diesel related apart from the Satnav. The Satnav issues were resolved once Renault realised owners weren't backing down. The turbo would have been covered by the eventually extended warranty. However, the dual mass flywheel was going to collapse soon at 7O,000 miles. Other than that, it was a great car with nothing like the number of faults I had with the 06 Honda Civic that replaced it.

However, I think the real reason that Renault started replacing dead turbos, after initially burying their heads in the sand, was because they realised that fleet buyers weren't happy with dropping residuals.

[Red diesel]

Unfortunately Ms i don't give a :censor: about the customers even though im in customer relations Jenny has a point

regarding how you were (appearently) happy to buy the car with the crap standard 3 year 60 000 mile warranty. Toyota in their misguided

wisdom will say that you were sold the car with the crap warranty and you bought it - so tough luck.

In saying that its a stupid attitude for Toyota to take - especially seeing that they had to call back early Gen 3s to fix the brakes, they

should have offered the 5 year warranty at that time to all Gen 3 customers seeing that the cars were all in warranty and everything.

Had to laugh about the Laguna comments though - lol, thats the job take manufacturer to court each time and soon its cheaper and easier to fix

the cars lol. Tell you something wierd though - theres a surprising amount of 01 and 02 Lagunas around my area lol, id have thought with their

reliability records that theyd have being all scrapped by now lol. In saying that however - on another forum i browse on (but not a member on)

one of the members appearently has a Laguna II (the really troublesome ones) that hes appearently owned from new with 240 000 miles plus on

the clock and it hasn't given a bit of trouble (it was a petrol though).

Red diesel

Hi Red D.

The interesting thing with the Laguna (and yes, it was a Laguna II). All the problems were diesel related apart from the Satnav. The Satnav issues were resolved once Renault realised owners weren't backing down. The turbo would have been covered by the eventually extended warranty. However, the dual mass flywheel was going to collapse soon at 7O,000 miles. Other than that, it was a great car with nothing like the number of faults I had with the 06 Honda Civic that replaced it.

However, I think the real reason that Renault started replacing dead turbos, after initially burying their heads in the sand, was because they realised that fleet buyers weren't happy with dropping residuals.

Sorry to go off topic here (its a prius forum not a Laguna one lol) but am i right in my interpratation of what you are saying - that it was the diesel Laguna IIs

that gave most of the bother and that therefore the petrols are okay(ish). If it makes any difference to your answer - ive often thought about the buy an immaculate

Laguna II petrol (have always known that the 1.9 Dcis are a pile of poo) for 500 quid because everyone thinks they are poo (because of their reputation) scenario.

On the basis that if a 01 Laguna has lasted this long - chances are it was a decent example - especially if the owners had it for ages.

Thank you very much and sorry for taking the thread of topic

Red diesel

Red diesel

[Ancient Nerd]

Sorry to go off topic here (its a prius forum not a Laguna one lol) but am i right in my interpratation of what you are saying - that it was the diesel Laguna IIs

that gave most of the bother and that therefore the petrols are okay(ish). If it makes any difference to your answer - ive often thought about the buy an immaculate

Laguna II petrol (have always known that the 1.9 Dcis are a pile of poo) for 500 quid because everyone thinks they are poo (because of their reputation) scenario.

On the basis that if a 01 Laguna has lasted this long - chances are it was a decent example - especially if the owners had it for ages.

I think the petrol ones were OK, except for the biggest engine - can't remember what size it was, but around 3 litres and I think they were dying off fast long ago, so there probably aren't any left now - that was actually worse than the diesels. SatNav was OK once Renault admitted that the reason the advertised traffic info was unavailable was because they economised by not paying the licence fee to ITIS. No problems with the electrics, and do I miss the electrically operated and heated leather seats with position memory. Their Customer Services were pretty bad, if slightly better than Toyota appear to be.

If you want more information try the Parkers Forum. They became the best source of information on Renault problems (and solutions) by far. I think it may be time to try them soon on the Toyota Weasel Warranty issue.

And I think we'd better end this OT here, although I don't think 01 Laguna petrols represent any threat to Toyota hybrids. The biggest threat seems to be Toyota GB itself!

[Seamaster73]

SatNav was OK once Renault admitted that the reason the advertised traffic info was unavailable was because they economised by not paying the licence fee to ITIS.

Had exactly the same issue with my MG ZT.

It's yet another reason why aftermarket satnavs from the likes of Tomtom or Garmin are always going to be a much better bet than OEM — you're in control of the traffic subscription, map updates, etc.