Warped Discs On 4.3 Xt5

[Big Kev]

.....but being of such an honest Scottish non-Presbyterian upbringing, I would not wish to sin my soul by saying I have a brake judder, coz I don't have....YET. The dealer may well react to Toyota GB instruction and invite me in and let them drive.

So it seems I must wait until I have done more than the stipulated 18k miles they condescend to allow, although I think I am already time barred, get the judders, write to Toyota GB, subsequently see dealer to be told about time bar and wear and tear.....?

Not ideal, but ah think it's time to pull their chucking fain !!!! Excuse spoonerised profanity,ladies, but this has grated me long enough, no pun intended. The miles I did in company cars, and not a brake disc worn in 34.7 years.

Big Moan

[anchorman]

You canny (thats scotlandish) claim for summat that isn't bust.

DTV (disc thickness variation) occurs when depositing (transfer of pad material to disc) causes uneven wear of the disc. The transfer is completely random and in some cases quite even. For that reason you may never get judder or it may take a very long time. When a court examines a case of fitness for purpose or merchntable quality they will apply a test of reasonableness. I believe that TGB will recognise what is reasonable and for those that have the problem at a low mileage they will do the proper thing and honour the warranty (even beyond the normal 3 years).

However, you can't expect them to fix a vehicle either inside or outside the warranty period if it is OK. Following what I believe was largely the fault of the dealers that were skimming or replacing discs at the slightest hint of "normal" wear, TGB imposed some restrictions on how long they would accept claims against wear. It seems that some of the dealers are a little hard of thinking because they now apply that restriction to any kind of brake fault without even consulting TGB. If TGB are informed that the claim is in respect of FAULTY BRAKES and not NORMAL WEAR they have without exception rectified the problem. The trouble is that unless you make this clear to them they cannot action anything. So; you have to either impress upon the dealer just what it is you are complaining about and let them approach TGB on your behalf or better still, write to TGB informing them yourself (and labouring the unsafe condition point) then they will instruct the dealer to contact you. I have done this on several occasions for owners and they have never yet failed to be entirely reasonable - it is a galoot at the dealer that is insulating you from them by not grasping the nature of the complaint. I can't keep doing this for owners but owners can do it for themselves. I will do it for those I have already promised - you know who you are.

As for TGB, I think they are acting no differently than I would do. All they need is the right information.

[benxt5]

All done now, and for a bargain price. £128 front discs and pads, supplied and fitted. I actually haven't paid yet, they delivered the car to the house, posted the keys and receipt through the letterbox and said to drop the money in when I can. Gotta love your local garage!!!

[pjtynan]

You canny (thats scotlandish) claim for summat that isn't bust.

DTV (disc thickness variation) occurs when depositing (transfer of pad material to disc) causes uneven wear of the disc. The transfer is completely random and in some cases quite even. For that reason you may never get judder or it may take a very long time. When a court examines a case of fitness for purpose or merchntable quality they will apply a test of reasonableness. I believe that TGB will recognise what is reasonable and for those that have the problem at a low mileage they will do the proper thing and honour the warranty (even beyond the normal 3 years).

However, you can't expect them to fix a vehicle either inside or outside the warranty period if it is OK. Following what I believe was largely the fault of the dealers that were skimming or replacing discs at the slightest hint of "normal" wear, TGB imposed some restrictions on how long they would accept claims against wear. It seems that some of the dealers are a little hard of thinking because they now apply that restriction to any kind of brake fault without even consulting TGB. If TGB are informed that the claim is in respect of FAULTY BRAKES and not NORMAL WEAR they have without exception rectified the problem. The trouble is that unless you make this clear to them they cannot action anything. So; you have to either impress upon the dealer just what it is you are complaining about and let them approach TGB on your behalf or better still, write to TGB informing them yourself (and labouring the unsafe condition point) then they will instruct the dealer to contact you. I have done this on several occasions for owners and they have never yet failed to be entirely reasonable - it is a galoot at the dealer that is insulating you from them by not grasping the nature of the complaint. I can't keep doing this for owners but owners can do it for themselves. I will do it for those I have already promised - you know who you are.

As for TGB, I think they are acting no differently than I would do. All they need is the right information.

Hi, anchorman

With all due respect to your point regarding TGB,I have been in contact with Toyota about a couple of items that were notified to my local dealer while still in warranty, and are still there, but I was told that if a dealer did not log a problem then Toyota would not consider any claim for that specific problem after the warranty had expired even if it got worse.

Regards pjtynan

[Davrav]

You canny (thats scotlandish) claim for summat that isn't bust.

DTV (disc thickness variation) occurs when depositing (transfer of pad material to disc) causes uneven wear of the disc. The transfer is completely random and in some cases quite even. For that reason you may never get judder or it may take a very long time. When a court examines a case of fitness for purpose or merchntable quality they will apply a test of reasonableness. I believe that TGB will recognise what is reasonable and for those that have the problem at a low mileage they will do the proper thing and honour the warranty (even beyond the normal 3 years).

However, you can't expect them to fix a vehicle either inside or outside the warranty period if it is OK. Following what I believe was largely the fault of the dealers that were skimming or replacing discs at the slightest hint of "normal" wear, TGB imposed some restrictions on how long they would accept claims against wear. It seems that some of the dealers are a little hard of thinking because they now apply that restriction to any kind of brake fault without even consulting TGB. If TGB are informed that the claim is in respect of FAULTY BRAKES and not NORMAL WEAR they have without exception rectified the problem. The trouble is that unless you make this clear to them they cannot action anything. So; you have to either impress upon the dealer just what it is you are complaining about and let them approach TGB on your behalf or better still, write to TGB informing them yourself (and labouring the unsafe condition point) then they will instruct the dealer to contact you. I have done this on several occasions for owners and they have never yet failed to be entirely reasonable - it is a galoot at the dealer that is insulating you from them by not grasping the nature of the complaint. I can't keep doing this for owners but owners can do it for themselves. I will do it for those I have already promised - you know who you are.

As for TGB, I think they are acting no differently than I would do. All they need is the right information.

Hi, anchorman

With all due respect to your point regarding TGB,I have been in contact with Toyota about a couple of items that were notified to my local dealer while still in warranty, and are still there, but I was told that if a dealer did not log a problem then Toyota would not consider any claim for that specific problem after the warranty had expired even if it got worse.

Regards pjtynan

If you have proof that you notified the dealer and the dealer did nothing the dealer is at fault and you need to be taking this issue up with the dealer principal with copies of everything in writing to both the principal and Toyota GB.

In my experience Toyota dealers are very reluctant to put anything in writing or divulge information as to work carried out under warranty. some also seem to be experts in playing dumb when it suits - again, in my experience.

[anchorman]

You canny (thats scotlandish) claim for summat that isn't bust.

DTV (disc thickness variation) occurs when depositing (transfer of pad material to disc) causes uneven wear of the disc. The transfer is completely random and in some cases quite even. For that reason you may never get judder or it may take a very long time. When a court examines a case of fitness for purpose or merchntable quality they will apply a test of reasonableness. I believe that TGB will recognise what is reasonable and for those that have the problem at a low mileage they will do the proper thing and honour the warranty (even beyond the normal 3 years).

However, you can't expect them to fix a vehicle either inside or outside the warranty period if it is OK. Following what I believe was largely the fault of the dealers that were skimming or replacing discs at the slightest hint of "normal" wear, TGB imposed some restrictions on how long they would accept claims against wear. It seems that some of the dealers are a little hard of thinking because they now apply that restriction to any kind of brake fault without even consulting TGB. If TGB are informed that the claim is in respect of FAULTY BRAKES and not NORMAL WEAR they have without exception rectified the problem. The trouble is that unless you make this clear to them they cannot action anything. So; you have to either impress upon the dealer just what it is you are complaining about and let them approach TGB on your behalf or better still, write to TGB informing them yourself (and labouring the unsafe condition point) then they will instruct the dealer to contact you. I have done this on several occasions for owners and they have never yet failed to be entirely reasonable - it is a galoot at the dealer that is insulating you from them by not grasping the nature of the complaint. I can't keep doing this for owners but owners can do it for themselves. I will do it for those I have already promised - you know who you are.

As for TGB, I think they are acting no differently than I would do. All they need is the right information.

Hi, anchorman

With all due respect to your point regarding TGB,I have been in contact with Toyota about a couple of items that were notified to my local dealer while still in warranty, and are still there, but I was told that if a dealer did not log a problem then Toyota would not consider any claim for that specific problem after the warranty had expired even if it got worse.

Regards pjtynan

You mean TGB are aware of it or your dealer says they have told TGB about it?

I can absolutely assure you that they do indeed address issues outside of the warranty period but you have to choose your words. Do you mind me asking what the issues were???

[bothwell_buyer]

One thing I have learned about dealers is that you must put/ confirm any problems and issues in writing to them otherwise they may deny that you told tham at all. Verbal notification is not worth the air it occupies.

Either write your issues down and hand a copy to them whilst getting them to sign your copy that they have received it, or send it Special delivery - the £5 fee is worth it, and you can access the signature of whoever accepted it if your too shy to ask the folk to sign your copy.

Once thats done, you have the evidence that allows you to take things forward. By the way, emails are not worth relying on... paper !!

[pjtynan]

You canny (thats scotlandish) claim for summat that isn't bust.

DTV (disc thickness variation) occurs when depositing (transfer of pad material to disc) causes uneven wear of the disc. The transfer is completely random and in some cases quite even. For that reason you may never get judder or it may take a very long time. When a court examines a case of fitness for purpose or merchntable quality they will apply a test of reasonableness. I believe that TGB will recognise what is reasonable and for those that have the problem at a low mileage they will do the proper thing and honour the warranty (even beyond the normal 3 years).

However, you can't expect them to fix a vehicle either inside or outside the warranty period if it is OK. Following what I believe was largely the fault of the dealers that were skimming or replacing discs at the slightest hint of "normal" wear, TGB imposed some restrictions on how long they would accept claims against wear. It seems that some of the dealers are a little hard of thinking because they now apply that restriction to any kind of brake fault without even consulting TGB. If TGB are informed that the claim is in respect of FAULTY BRAKES and not NORMAL WEAR they have without exception rectified the problem. The trouble is that unless you make this clear to them they cannot action anything. So; you have to either impress upon the dealer just what it is you are complaining about and let them approach TGB on your behalf or better still, write to TGB informing them yourself (and labouring the unsafe condition point) then they will instruct the dealer to contact you. I have done this on several occasions for owners and they have never yet failed to be entirely reasonable - it is a galoot at the dealer that is insulating you from them by not grasping the nature of the complaint. I can't keep doing this for owners but owners can do it for themselves. I will do it for those I have already promised - you know who you are.

As for TGB, I think they are acting no differently than I would do. All they need is the right information.

Hi, anchorman

With all due respect to your point regarding TGB,I have been in contact with Toyota about a couple of items that were notified to my local dealer while still in warranty, and are still there, but I was told that if a dealer did not log a problem then Toyota would not consider any claim for that specific problem after the warranty had expired even if it got worse.

Regards pjtynan

You mean TGB are aware of it or your dealer says they have told TGB about it?

I can absolutely assure you that they do indeed address issues outside of the warranty period but you have to choose your words. Do you mind me asking what the issues were???

Hi anchorman

Thanks for your comments and the issues that I told TGB about were: 1/ metallic resonating noise from the exhaust (not the usual throaty exhaust note that appears to be designed into the exhaust)and 2/ a turbo like whistling noise that started about 6 months before the warranty period expired. This noise is there when setting off in first gear and gets gradually louder until the car changes up in to 2nd. The car is a petrol automatic.

As a follow on to my original comment regarding brake discs, I have had both front discs replaced today because the juddering was that bad the car was terrible to drive. The discs were not just corroded they were potholed in places.The pads were only half worn but I decided to have them changed also.

I have just contacted TGB and they told me that under no circumstances would they pay for replacement discs after 18 months unless they had actually cracked or broken, anything else being wear and tear. They were just not interested at all. I have seen the various points regarding how to notify dealers but it is too late now for me.

Thanks again for all your comments pjtynan

[anchorman]

Sorry pjt but I'm not convinced you understand my point. Before any work is undertaken you have to approach TGB - you have approached the dealer. The moment you mention brakes even TGB will reject the claim on the grounds of wear and tear. At that stage you have to counter argue that the claim is a safety related issue due to the fault of judder and dig in. Once you have the fault rectified they will never accept a claim retrospectively.

[pjtynan]

Sorry pjt but I'm not convinced you understand my point. Before any work is undertaken you have to approach TGB - you have approached the dealer. The moment you mention brakes even TGB will reject the claim on the grounds of wear and tear. At that stage you have to counter argue that the claim is a safety related issue due to the fault of judder and dig in. Once you have the fault rectified they will never accept a claim retrospectively.

Hi,

Thanks for the info.anchorman but as I said earlier its too late for me to do anything now.

Regards pjtynan

[bothwell_buyer]

crumbs - it seems we need a pinned topic on the front brakes, which can be identified cos it lights up in 86 point itallics on the forum section page.

Unfortunately many dealers of all different car manufacturers have seen the opportunity of raising wages by advising the discs need replaced. Its the dealers at fault and not the manufacturer. If you don't alert the manufacturer of the issue before work is done, they can hardly do anything unless you requested the worn parts.

I always like to see the worn parts, and the guys at the garage are always happy to oblige.

Discs have a cast minimum thickness and any garage can check the disc using simple measuring tools. More customers need to question whether a disc actually needs replaced. Ancs is by far the most knowledgeable expert I have come across in the braking field and I'd go with whatever he suggests.

My experience has been that the crap thrown up from our roads can have a tendency to get in amongst the caliper pistons and cause them to jam... so if they jam on and don't retract then the pads will overheat with the disc and pad material transfer will occur - especially if you hold the car stationary at traffic lights by using the foot brake.

I don' think we are tring to apportion blame to anyone - just trying to make the point that if yer kettle blows up, then theres no point going to say Comet - you go to the manufacturer for their guarantee and help. As has been said to me by PCWorld, "we just sell boxes". If you want warranty support you need to contact the manufacturer direct.

Its becoming the procedure in the UK, so do everything in writing; keep a copy of everything you say to yer garage and any other contact. The same goes for all cars. All trucks.

Your comments about the turbo and the metallic noise indicate to me that the turbo fans may be disintegrating.

Pardon me for not recapping the entire thread - I'm a bit tired after my father collapsed at the weekend (he stays with us) and he's been attention seeking ever since. Why can't he make his own coffee? Just becos he's 92 is not an excuse. Ah mean,... ahm nearly 60 in a few years and ah get ma ain whisky!!

[pjtynan]

crumbs - it seems we need a pinned topic on the front brakes, which can be identified cos it lights up in 86 point itallics on the forum section page.

Unfortunately many dealers of all different car manufacturers have seen the opportunity of raising wages by advising the discs need replaced. Its the dealers at fault and not the manufacturer. If you don't alert the manufacturer of the issue before work is done, they can hardly do anything unless you requested the worn parts.

I always like to see the worn parts, and the guys at the garage are always happy to oblige.

Discs have a cast minimum thickness and any garage can check the disc using simple measuring tools. More customers need to question whether a disc actually needs replaced. Ancs is by far the most knowledgeable expert I have come across in the braking field and I'd go with whatever he suggests.

My experience has been that the crap thrown up from our roads can have a tendency to get in amongst the caliper pistons and cause them to jam... so if they jam on and don't retract then the pads will overheat with the disc and pad material transfer will occur - especially if you hold the car stationary at traffic lights by using the foot brake.

I don' think we are tring to apportion blame to anyone - just trying to make the point that if yer kettle blows up, then theres no point going to say Comet - you go to the manufacturer for their guarantee and help. As has been said to me by PCWorld, "we just sell boxes". If you want warranty support you need to contact the manufacturer direct.

Its becoming the procedure in the UK, so do everything in writing; keep a copy of everything you say to yer garage and any other contact. The same goes for all cars. All trucks.

Your comments about the turbo and the metallic noise indicate to me that the turbo fans may be disintegrating.

Pardon me for not recapping the entire thread - I'm a bit tired after my father collapsed at the weekend (he stays with us) and he's been attention seeking ever since. Why can't he make his own coffee? Just becos he's 92 is not an excuse. Ah mean,... ahm nearly 60 in a few years and ah get ma ain whisky!!

Thanks for your comments and I hope your father is ok. regards pjtynan

[DesG]

Does anyone have any recommendations for replacement disks and pads for the 4.3 d4d?

I need to do mine now.

EBC do replacement front discs for £111.13 a pair and green pads for £62 for the front. Anyone put them on theirs before?

Cheers, Des.

[jedi134]

EBC are good pads, I would use them myself.

[Mistermena]

Does anyone have any recommendations for replacement disks and pads for the 4.3 d4d?

I need to do mine now.

EBC do replacement front discs for £111.13 a pair and green pads for £62 for the front. Anyone put them on theirs before?

Cheers, Des.

Take a look at the MTEC site. I've got the black drilled and groved on my Avensis T-180 estate and my Vw Polo TDi and they look the dogs and stop the cars on a penny!

[bothwell_buyer]

Does anyone have any recommendations for replacement disks and pads for the 4.3 d4d?

I need to do mine now.

EBC do replacement front discs for £111.13 a pair and green pads for £62 for the front. Anyone put them on theirs before?

Cheers, Des.

I've used the EBC discs and pads and they were a waste of time... but then I'm an aggressive driver looking to hit the brakes as soon as the car lands You can get grooved/drilled and other fancy discs but if yer calipers aren't working right, they will still get ruined just the same.

[DesG]

Thanks everyone for the input!

Take a look at the MTEC site. I've got the black drilled and groved on my Avensis T-180 estate and my Vw Polo TDi and they look the dogs and stop the cars on a penny!

Are you using the MTEC pads also, looks like they don't have any pads for the 4.3 rav4, discs seem nice though, not sure I would bother paying extra for the black if it wears off though :)

Cheers, Des.

[Mistermena]

Thanks everyone for the input!

Take a look at the MTEC site. I've got the black drilled and groved on my Avensis T-180 estate and my Vw Polo TDi and they look the dogs and stop the cars on a penny!

Are you using the MTEC pads also, looks like they don't have any pads for the 4.3 rav4, discs seem nice though, not sure I would bother paying extra for the black if it wears off though :)

Cheers, Des.

MTEC supply Mintex pads with there discs. But I'd go for Ferodo pads if I were you as they are (in my view) the best on the market. I went for the black addition because the hubs on my original Bosch discs went really rusty and looked awful and stopped the car even worse! If you give the lovely Claire a ring at MTEC and tell her you heard about them through this site you maywell get a discount on them. I bought 2 sets off them and they knocked me a good deal. She will be able to get the pads for the discs if you talk to her. Very helful company and a great set of discs/pads.

The black paint only comes off the discs in use. But the hubs/outer rim remain painted..

[bothwell_buyer]

Perhaps you should try attaching a black shoe polish applicator to the calipers so that the black remains nice and shiny ? :D

[Parts-King]

I don' think we are tring to apportion blame to anyone - just trying to make the point that if yer kettle blows up, then theres no point going to say Comet - you go to the manufacturer for their guarantee and help. As has been said to me by PCWorld, "we just sell boxes". If you want warranty support you need to contact the manufacturer direct.

That might be what they tell you B_B but that statement is a pile of poo and I'm not giving you a dig here

If you buy a product from any retailer, it is the retailer you have a contract with, not the manufacturer of the product. If the product goes faulty, it is the retailers problem. When the product runs out of warranty, then the retailer/customer can contact the manufacturer, to see if they are prepared to contribute

If anybody ever tells you "we just sell boxes" then stand firm and point them in the direction of the Sale Of Goods Act which clearly states, return the faulty goods to the TRADER, NOT the manufacturer. The manufacturer may have an arrangement with the retailer to send a computer or whatever back for a repair but it is still the RETAILERS responsibility

Sorry but it is one of my pet hates, people in retail who try and fob you off because they have no idea of the law

Kingo

[Mike JD]

If anybody ever tells you "we just sell boxes" then stand firm and point them in the direction of the Sale Of Goods Act which clearly states, return the faulty goods to the TRADER, NOT the manufacturer. The manufacturer may have an arrangement with the retailer to send a computer or whatever back for a repair but it is still the RETAILERS responsibility

Sorry but it is one of my pet hates, people in retail who try and fob you off because they have no idea of the law

Kingo

Totally correct, Kingo, and a pet hate of mine too but it is very charitable of you to ascribe ignorance of the law to the perpetrators. Most of them know full well what their responsibilities are - that is why they try so hard to evade them. GRRRRRRRRRRR

The sad thing is that it is a false economy on their part. There is NO better way to earn a customers respect that by fixing an issue as it the best opportunity to show that the retailer offers a really good service. Fockups happen - It is the good guys that put them right and who I return to with confidence.

Cheers m'dears

Mike D

PS Yur Bothers'n'Kevva - can thee do zummat bout the wevver in your neck of the woods. I'm invading Scroteland soon and the Met Office reckon I will need water wings or a

[Big Kev]

If anybody ever tells you "we just sell boxes" then stand firm and point them in the direction of the Sale Of Goods Act which clearly states, return the faulty goods to the TRADER, NOT the manufacturer. The manufacturer may have an arrangement with the retailer to send a computer or whatever back for a repair but it is still the RETAILERS responsibility

Sorry but it is one of my pet hates, people in retail who try and fob you off because they have no idea of the law

Kingo

Totally correct, Kingo, and a pet hate of mine too but it is very charitable of you to ascribe ignorance of the law to the perpetrators. Most of them know full well what their responsibilities are - that is why they try so hard to evade them. GRRRRRRRRRRR

The sad thing is that it is a false economy on their part. There is NO better way to earn a customers respect that by fixing an issue as it the best opportunity to show that the retailer offers a really good service. Fockups happen - It is the good guys that put them right and who I return to with confidence.

Cheers m'dears

Mike D

PS Yur Bothers'n'Kevva - can thee do zummat bout the wevver in your neck of the woods. I'm invading Scroteland soon and the Met Office reckon I will need water wings or a

....and I quote "some of the showers may merge to give longer spells of rain....." what a shot of lite....last couple of days we have been rounding up animals two by two.....Aberdonian nymphomaniacs....? Good luck wiff weather, Mikey, it will either be nice or no sa nice. Remember yer Durex waterproofs (condom into buying them last time he was here....)

Big Kev

[bothwell_buyer]

I'm looking oot ma window in ma cell the morn, and the sun is beating doon. Some clouds racing by, and windy. Which way are you travelling as I have just put up the tolls on the M74 at my bit. However by paying in advance you could save a few English pounds.

And as for the above comments on selling boxes, I used to use PeeCee World Business for our computer buys until they told me the same....(we just buy boxes) so after losing the argument we switched wur purchasing to a more pleasant company and told a few hundred others tae dae the same. Jist waiting noo fur Dicksons group tae go bust.

[anchorman]

Don't go mad on the marketing hype of these pads and discs. Some will sell you green stuff or black stuff or whatever. The main thing is that unless it is a competition pad they are all much of a muchness that meet the same Regulation 90 standard for braking. The original 4.3 pads could cause problems but that has been resolved now - I can't say if that applies to the replacement pads.

I wouldn't bother with any fancy discs, just plain old grey cast iron will do and I pay about £35+VAT for those. Kingo's discs will be of a very high standard. Somebody mentioned Ferodo. They are OK as long as you get the PREMIER range but they also do a second line called SL (service line). They are sourced all over the place, some from reputable sites and some not but the trouble is you won't know and for that reason I wouldn't buy them. You can make pads cheap if you skimp on the production process and from what I've seen with very low mileage and uneven wear I wouldn't take the risk. As far as other brands are concerned, you can also paint them gold but all that glitters..........

I use Apec pads and they have been consistently good. I would expect to pad and disc the front of a RAV for not much more than £100+VAT. In fact I'll be replacing the pads on my old red RAV this weekend so I might post pics of the rears for the pinned section.