Camry Sludge Question

[ceglinton]

I own a 1998 Toyota Camry V6 - I purchased it used. It now has 127,000 miles on it. Today, out of curiosity and because I'm worried about the engine sludge issue, I removed the cap to make a visual inspection of the oil. Inside I found a thick black substance (similar to the black stuff you scrape off a BBQ grill). It's accumulated just inside the opening. Just two weeks ago, I had the car at the dealership and spent $140 for an engine flush....shouldn't they have noticed this? Anyway, is anyone familiar with how the "sludge" looks or is this some other serious problem?

[dswift743]

I purchased a 98 Camry V6 this fall. Since I too was quite concerned about the sludge issue, I did quite a bit of research. I too was quite alarmed at what appeared to be sludge under the oil cap, and around the throat leading up to the oil cap. My car only has 67k miles, but this really looked bad--so at odds with the dipstick, which looked brand new, that I became convinced that the dealer had slipped in a new dip stick to cover up a sludger. In my case, at least, this turned out not to be true. I was told in some e-mail queries, on Bob the Oil Guy's site, among others, that that ugly black stuff under the oil cap is not a reliable indicator of sludging in the engine. This was borne out in my case. I had the valve cover removed, and the mechanic who did it reported that the valve train looks clean enough to eat off of. I've only driven it through one three thousand mile oil change interval, but the oil still looked clean at the end of it, so I find that convincing and comforting as well. As for that ugly black stuff under the cap, I'm told that that's caused by vapors accumulating there especially when the car is at idle.

If you really want to know where your engine is regarding sludge, again I've concluded the only way to know is to have the valve cover removed and to get a good look at the valves. My Toyota dealer only charged me $60, but I've heard other quotes much higher.

Hope this helps.

Doug

[gecko]

the only way to know for sure is to have the front valve cover removed. they shouldn't charge you more than a half hour to do it, and it really only takes about 2 minutes.

ceglinton it sounds like you might be in a bit of trouble though. there are a couple things that you can do yourself as an initial check. look at the underside of the oil filler cap. some sludged engines will have a heavy buildup on the bottom of the cap. remove the dipstick and look at it for darkish brown varnish buildup. remove the pcv valve from the bank 1 valve cover (the vale cover near the firewall). the pcv valve can be seen just under the upper plenum if you are looking at it from the right strut tower. the valve itself will be black or grey and it just pulls upward. look at the bottom of the valve. if it has a heavy sludge buildup on it or it does not make any noise when you shake it the engine is probably sludged. sludged cars will usually also blow blue smoke on a cold start. cold start meaning after sitting all night.

unfortunately if your engine is sludged your best bet would be to get a junkyard engine (500-1000 dollars and about 500-1000 in labor to have it installed). the reason i don't suggest an attempted rebuild is that a dealer would charge you about 15-20 hours to remove the heads completely disassemble and clean them and install new valve seals, inspection of the cylinder bores for vertical scratches, removal of the sub oil pan for cleaning of the pan and replacement of the oil pump strainer. now that sounds all fine and dandy and that you would have a nearly new engine after all that. but if there are vertical scratches in the cylinders you would need a short block since the 1MZ engines cannot be bored and it is recommended by toyota that they only be replaced. so basically it comes down to how lucky you feel. but that would be a pretty expensive gamble.

[nglitz]

The oil cap is probably the first palce to sludge up on almost any car because it's the coldest part of the oil system. Gunk condenses there first & washes off last. FIRST make sure your PVC valve is working. It should suck all kinds of air at idle. Next a flush, but you already did that. Then an oil change, probably got one with the flush (my duh).

I can't imagine paying someone to do so simple a job as taking off a valve cover for a look see. It's simple. Spend the money on a decent set of metric socket wrenches instead. 3/8" drive with sockets from 8 to 17 will do 95% of the jobs you'll need. Unplug & unclip all the wires & hoses and then just unscrew the bolts that hold the valve cover on. Give it a tug & if it resists, look for that sneaky bolt you missed. Be careful with the gasket & you won't need a new one. Don't drop anything inside the engine while you're looking around. Wipe off any sludge & gunk inside the valve cover & screw it back on. Light torque, just wrist pressure. Look it up if you're paranoid.

It's easy to do, you'll feel better about yourself & your engine and you'll have a nice, new, shiny set of wrenches instad of a bill.

Norm