Saga Continues On Mystery Sluggish Starting

[RonnieRoo22]

Hi Guys

I asked for your help some weeks ago, as I had just bought a Avensis 2L D4D 2003. It was slow to start,and was assured by the seller it was the starter motor. So after buying a brand new starter, still happened so changed the heater plugs & Battery. On your advice - I changed the fuel filter and then went off to Mr T - who informed me I had two blocked injectors. Hundreds of pounds lighter, they have just fitted the new injectors and cleaned the other ultrasonically.

The injectors are now perfect and the car still will not start, it takes 6-10 seconds every time warm or cold.

I already know I have bought a pup, but cannot afford to walk away. PLEASE can you help?????

Thanks Ronnie Roo (girl)

[igormus]

Hi Guys

I asked for your help some weeks ago, as I had just bought a Avensis 2L D4D 2003. It was slow to start,and was assured by the seller it was the starter motor. So after buying a brand new starter, still happened so changed the heater plugs & Battery. On your advice - I changed the fuel filter and then went off to Mr T - who informed me I had two blocked injectors. Hundreds of pounds lighter, they have just fitted the new injectors and cleaned the other ultrasonically.

The injectors are now perfect and the car still will not start, it takes 6-10 seconds every time warm or cold.

I already know I have bought a pup, but cannot afford to walk away. PLEASE can you help?????

Thanks Ronnie Roo (girl)

hello Ronnie

6-10 seconds -- of cranking before starting up or having sparks and detones ?

cheers/Igor

[Legionaru']

Did you check valve SCV?

It is located on injection pump.

[Lupidog]

Ronnie

It is very difficult to diagnose problems from a distance. You will get asked a million and one questions and may still not find what could be a simple issue.

An alternative may be to find some small local garages, run by an a single person who will have a wider range of experience from seeing many types of vehicles and problems, than a main dealer or non specific dealer. Just go in ask tell them the problem and usually they will give you free advice as to what they think it may be.

I will try as I had a RAV4 with the D4D engine. None of the following is meant to be insulting to anyones intelligence. But without any other information you have to start with the basics.

Is this your first diesel? They do tend to turn over longer than modern petrol engines before starting, but 6-10 seconds is a bit long. My ML320cdi takes about 3 seconds and my RAV4 T180 takes 2-3 seconds.

Is part of your delay silent or is the engine cranking from the start? Some cars have a built in automatic delay from the ignition to allow the glow plugs to heat up. Some cars you have to do this manually by turning the ignition to on and waiting 3-4 seconds for the glow plugs to work before turning the key to start. If yours does not have an automatic system then you should wait to see the glow plug light on the dash extinguish before cranking the engine.

Are you keeping your foot off the accelerator when starting the car?

What is your stationary idle speed?

Does the car run well when started and driving?

Does the car accelerate smoothly?

Is your fuel consumption as expected?

Do you get any emissions from the exhaust on start up of driving, if so what colour and how much? (you can check this by getting someone to drive behind you and look)

This is not much to start with but just an overview to get a feel of the car and engine...

Just a couple of things to check initially:

Have you checked the air filter? Try removing it and see how the car starts.

Try turning the ignition to the on position, waiting 4 second and then turning it to start the engine. There is always a chance you glow plugs light on the dash has failed.

You have changed the heater plugs, but is there actually current going to the plugs on start-up? Check to see if there is a fuse blown.

[RonnieRoo22]

Thanks guys

Yes this our 4th diesel from Astra 1.8 - Rover 75 2.0L (BMW engine) Alfa Romeo 1.9JTD.(started in a heartbeat)

We have tried everything recommended on the starting of it.

Turn the key on & off and on again.

Do not use the accelerator

Do use the accelerator and hold down.

Wait 10 seconds to warm up the heater plugs.

You name it we done it.

There is NO smoke from the rear on starting or revving.

The tick over is normal,500 - 800(cold) but just before we put in the garage it revved VERY slightly at lights. Say not more than 600. Only thing is fuel MPG dropped from 55 to 48 in 2 weeks on the same run with same weather.

The car would crank, from the get go. Sounded like it was out of fuel, but then would catch.

So when the injectors where called into play, I thought this makes sense. Nothing!!!! worse than ever

I limped it back to the garage that diagnosed and fitted the parts. Now it has died all together and sits abandoned on a the forecourt. He is the small local garage with 23 years experience that all the other garages say to use if you cannot solve it.

So NOT a happy bunny!!! Have bit the bullet and booked it in to MR T for Tuesday so 3rd week of not being on the road. AA said to check SCV and pump....more than I ever wanted to know as a woman. So not offended - VERY grateful to all who give advice.

Does anyone out there like messing with Toyota's in their spare time and fancy a challenge????? Let me know!!!!

Ronnie (girl)

[Druid Boy]

Hi Ronnie

Just cos you have it booked into toyota does not mean that you have to let them do the repair. you can simply instruct them to diagnose the fault - and you can tell them how much money/time you are prepared to invest in the diagnosis. (My bike went into a Suzuki dealer for a diagnosis & they would have kept checking forever unless I told them 1 hour only.) get their diagnosis and then decide whether you want them to do the repair.

[t-spiritpete]

Thanks guys

Yes this our 4th diesel from Astra 1.8 - Rover 75 2.0L (BMW engine) Alfa Romeo 1.9JTD.(started in a heartbeat)

We have tried everything recommended on the starting of it.

Turn the key on & off and on again.

Do not use the accelerator

Do use the accelerator and hold down.

Wait 10 seconds to warm up the heater plugs.

You name it we done it.

There is NO smoke from the rear on starting or revving.

The tick over is normal,500 - 800(cold) but just before we put in the garage it revved VERY slightly at lights. Say not more than 600. Only thing is fuel MPG dropped from 55 to 48 in 2 weeks on the same run with same weather.

The car would crank, from the get go. Sounded like it was out of fuel, but then would catch.

So when the injectors where called into play, I thought this makes sense. Nothing!!!! worse than ever

I limped it back to the garage that diagnosed and fitted the parts. Now it has died all together and sits abandoned on a the forecourt. He is the small local garage with 23 years experience that all the other garages say to use if you cannot solve it.

So NOT a happy bunny!!! Have bit the bullet and booked it in to MR T for Tuesday so 3rd week of not being on the road. AA said to check SCV and pump....more than I ever wanted to know as a woman. So not offended - VERY grateful to all who give advice.

Does anyone out there like messing with Toyota's in their spare time and fancy a challenge????? Let me know!!!!

Ronnie (girl)

Hi Ronnie, 500-800rpm is not normal idle speed when cold, for a D4D it should be 1200rpm only falling to 800 rpm when the engine is fully warmed up I suspect a temperature sensor is faulty and the ECU thinks the engine is hot when trying to start so maybe ask about this at the garage.

Regards Pete.

[cmia]

SCV

you need to run the tank low as u can

then fill it up with Shell optmiax diesel

ie 20£

then drive it like you stole it.

ur problem is fuel pump.

[RonnieRoo22]

Hi Guys

I would love to be able to fill it up with £20 fuel/Shell Optimax and drive it like I stole it.....arh sweet dreams!

But sadly this morning as the birds were singing I towed it into Mr T (Northwich) where it has sat all day and even they cannot start it. Hence cannot fix it.

So I am taking bets (no money just prestige) What do you think it is????

Answers via the forum!!!!

I will keep you updated as usual. I would be enjoying this if not broke and on the bus!

[Thermal]

... I am taking bets...

Hi,

Nah... let me think:

Apart from electrical issues, like ignition barrel and immobiliser (..), or the CSV valve not switching from its "Engine Off" position, there are only a few things required to make a diesel engine start and run.

1. fuel

2. air

3. compression

and of course the correct timing.

Things that can complicate matters are the fuel pump, the injectors, a number of sensors, the ECU, a blocked fuel filter or leaking fuel pipe (see below) ...

Hmm... could be any combination of these, but I bet at least one of the above causes your problem.

Not very helpfull, I know, but...

In one of your first posts you mentioned that it needed 6-8 revs before it started, cold or hot, and that there was no smoke from the exhaust once it started.

To me, that looks like fuel starvation.

I had a similar issue once on an old Peugeot diesel, where the fuel line between the fuel filter and the high pressure pump was un-tight.

There was no obvious fuel leaking, but because of the natural vacuum inside the fuel tank, when the engine was stopped air was sucked in and the fuel was drawn back to the tank, leaving the pump dry.

It took a number of revs (maybe 6 to 8, can't remember) each time before new fuel was sucked back to the pump, and when I didn't use the car for a week I had to use the hand pump first to get it going.

Difficult to diagnose, but once found completely logical.

Just a thought.

Good luck.

[micky1483]

Thanks guys

Yes this our 4th diesel from Astra 1.8 - Rover 75 2.0L (BMW engine) Alfa Romeo 1.9JTD.(started in a heartbeat)

We have tried everything recommended on the starting of it.

Turn the key on & off and on again.

Do not use the accelerator

Do use the accelerator and hold down.

Wait 10 seconds to warm up the heater plugs.

You name it we done it.

There is NO smoke from the rear on starting or revving.

The tick over is normal,500 - 800(cold) but just before we put in the garage it revved VERY slightly at lights. Say not more than 600. Only thing is fuel MPG dropped from 55 to 48 in 2 weeks on the same run with same weather.

The car would crank, from the get go. Sounded like it was out of fuel, but then would catch.

So when the injectors where called into play, I thought this makes sense. Nothing!!!! worse than ever

I limped it back to the garage that diagnosed and fitted the parts. Now it has died all together and sits abandoned on a the forecourt. He is the small local garage with 23 years experience that all the other garages say to use if you cannot solve it.

So NOT a happy bunny!!! Have bit the bullet and booked it in to MR T for Tuesday so 3rd week of not being on the road. AA said to check SCV and pump....more than I ever wanted to know as a woman. So not offended - VERY grateful to all who give advice.

Does anyone out there like messing with Toyota's in their spare time and fancy a challenge????? Let me know!!!!

Ronnie (girl)

Hi Ronnie, 500-800rpm is not normal idle speed when cold, for a D4D it should be 1200rpm only falling to 800 rpm when the engine is fully warmed up I suspect a temperature sensor is faulty and the ECU thinks the engine is hot when trying to start so maybe ask about this at the garage.

Regards Pete.

500-800 is normal on a cold start depending on what temperature you have the inside heater at. in cold weather you tend to have your inside temp in a high position therefore the car revs up to 1200 automatically as to warm the engine but if you put it to cold it will go straight back to 800 rpm. My car is currently doing the same hard to start in morning and off a cylinder for about 30 secs then fine again so i was told to change the glow plugs done that tonight so holding tight for tommorrow morning for another cold start but if thats no good i will be doing injectors