Worn Out Brake Discs

[Rumbly]

Put my Auris in for its 30,000 mile service today, car is 2.5 years old, just had a call from the garage. They tell me all the brake discs are at their wear limit and need replaced, and the front callipers are not releasing properly (caused by the worn discs they say). They also tell me that I have to pay to get this sorted out as this is not covered under warranty. I am seriously disappointed, one of the reasons I bought a Toyota was the reputation for reliability and hard wearing, I really did not expect to have to spend money, at dealer prices over £600, on a car this young with 30,000 miles on it. Question is, should this be warranty work or not? any advice out there??

Basically if this costs me, its the first and last Toyota I'll ever buy! My last Peuguot went 5 years, 50,000 miles before I spent a penny on it other than routine servicing.

[Parts-King]

If the calipers are sticking and it has worn the brakes out, I would suggest this would be covered by warranty. Ask how a sticking caliper can be wear and tear

If the discs and pads are just worn out, then that would NOT be covered under warranty

Make an appointment with the service manager and get him to explain, also ask for it in writing as you would like to take it further, be firm but polite, and if you do not agree with him, ask for an appointment with the dealer Principle, again, be firm but polite and ask for everything in writing

Kingo

[ptaurissr]

I would consider a sticky caliper at this age to be v.unusual, the last time I had to replace a caliper was when my old car reached its 15th birthday!

If toyota are telling you the discs are at their limit, ask for the measurements they have taken. They should be able to tell you what the minimum thickness should be and then you can compare this against the thickness the discs currently are. I only say this because I have known BMW and Nissan dealers to advise customers discs need replacing when they are 85% worn...This may of course be good practice when they know the next time they see the car will be in another 12 months...

[tavy]

...If toyota are telling you the discs are at their limit, ask for the measurements they have taken. They should be able to tell you what the minimum thickness should be and then you can compare this against the thickness the discs currently are...

yes, he's right, ask the technician about your disks thickness or borrow a micrometer and check them yourself; the minimum allowable thickness is 19.0 mm (or 0.748 inch).

[Rumbly]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

At the moment, not having atually talked to them face to face, I'm of the opinion there is no way a car this age should be suffering from sticky brake calipers whether the discs are on their wear limit or not. Can't think of any reason why worn disk could possibly cause calipers to stick.

I'll be leaving shortly to pick it up, will report back when I get a chance after I've been to see them.

Has anybody else had disks wear out so quickly? is 30,000 miles a resonable life for brake discs?

[Parts-King]

30K is reasonable these days. When asbestos was dropped from brake pad material, they had to start using other compunds and resins, these are very hard and very often wear the discs down to minimum thickness

A sticking caliper would cause the pads on that side to wear out quicker, the worn discs don't make the caliper stick

You need a face to face meeting to discuss this

Kingo

[Daveyonthemove]

Totally agree with Kingo, if the caliper is sticking, then that is the cause of the worn discs, NOT the other way around.

So they need to replace discs under warranty and fix the sticking caliper.

[Jamesbelfast]

I keep hearing the same old excuse trotted out constantly by garages and those in the motor trade that non-asbestos brake pads cause accelereated wear on discs, etc.

Considering non-asbestos pads and linings have been around for over 25 years how come it's only a recent problem. Also many cars 10 years old and beyond which were fitted with the non-asbestos friction material don't have the same wear and tear problems.

In my view manufacturers are just using crappier materials.

Come on Mr T start fitting better quality brake componenents - 30k replacement intervals for discs just isn't realistic or fair on your customers. Better still if some Toyota agents are telling their customers porkies just to get work then get rid of them for they are tarnishing what once was a good brand.

[acetip]

I keep hearing the same old excuse trotted out constantly by garages and those in the motor trade that non-asbestos brake pads cause accelereated wear on discs, etc.

Considering non-asbestos pads and linings have been around for over 25 years how come it's only a recent problem. Also many cars 10 years old and beyond which were fitted with the non-asbestos friction material don't have the same wear and tear problems.

In my view manufacturers are just using crappier materials.

Come on Mr T start fitting better quality brake componenents - 30k replacement intervals for discs just isn't realistic or fair on your customers. Better still if some Toyota agents are telling their customers porkies just to get work then get rid of them for they are tarnishing what once was a good brand.

You have hit the nail on the head.30000 miles is not acceptable life span for disc/pads unless theres misuse,

[Jamesbelfast]

20 - 30K miles would be quite acceptable for pads but discs should last at least 3 brake pad changes unless abused or neglected.:)

[Rumbly]

Got the car back last night, unfortunately all service staff had left by the time I got there, currently awaiting phone call.

When car was put in for service I reported brake squeal and steering pull to the left. Steering pull was one of those, sometimes it seems to do it sometimes not.

Service report states binding front brakes as the cause of brake squeal and steering pull, no mention of sticky calipers, just binding, which I suppose could be caused by the pads being stuck in their housing, and does not nessesarily mean the calipers are sticking or causing any problem, but still not IMO something that should be a problem on a car this age.

Service report also states both offside tyres as being over inflated which is very probably bo**ox, pressures were checked on Sunday so unless someone came round in the night and blew them up .... or my pressure guage is wrong and both nearside ones have mysteriouly developed leaks ....! Actual pressures were not recorded and have been changed so difficult to argue that one. I'm an ex Class 1 LGV driver and very particular about stuff like tyre pressures.

Will report back when I've spoken to service dept for an explanation.

Kingo, I'm quite prepared to believe that modern discs only last around 30,000 miles, IMO it's not an acceptable service life for anything except tyres, but might well be true. That's why you buy a Toyota, its supposed to be a cut above the rest, long lasting, no problems, low running costs, low hassle factor ... and if it ain't ... might as well just buy a Kia and hold on to some of your hard earned.

[Parts-King]

Kingo, I'm quite prepared to believe that modern discs only last around 30,000 miles, IMO it's not an acceptable service life for anything except tyres, but might well be true.

I hear what you are saying but you asked what is a reasonable life for brake discs, from what I see in the dealership, 30-40K is average and some people considerably less

Kingo

[Mooly]

So many factors come into play with disc and pad life. For example is the car kept outside ?

Personally I have never on any car worn out pads or discs. My last TSport yas 8 yr old and over 70K on the clock... all original and Mr T said only front pads would be needed at 80 or 90K, discs were fine. Audi A4, Carina II all clocked up highish mileages before I changed them and none wore pads or discs out.

At work normal pad life for service engineers cars was anywhere from 10K to 25K, front tyres every 10k or 15k too... it's how you drive em ;)

[jettech]

20 - 30K miles would be quite acceptable for pads but discs should last at least 3 brake pad changes unless abused or neglected.:)

Totally agree. In every car In my family disks could easily last 70-80k and 3 pads changes. Replacing them after 30k is a joke. Maybe Toyota should consider different supplier unless that is Toyota specification.

If your claim fails then get them replaced with some good quality after market parts or you will be paying for another change soon.

[Rumbly]

Spoke with the dealer yesterday ....

They will strip and examine the front calipers, if the caliper pistons are seized its a warranty job and the front will all get replaced for free. If the caliper pistons are not seized it will cost me £70 for the strip and re-assembly. Since the car was returned it hasn't even hinted at pulling left, and the brakes haven't squeaked at all, so I think they already probably pushed the pads back a bit to make sure the caliper pistons were not seized, so I imagine they already know the answer to the siezed piston question!

They did agree that 30,000 miles was a poor service life for the disks and offered to replace them at a discount price, have to get back to them for the price, but I'm pretty sure it'll still be way more expensive than I can do it for myself.

Indeed this kind of problem depends very much on driving style, but still it is odd no matter how its driven that the disks have worn out before the pads.

Mr T has no idea how my car has been driven and I understand that, but unfortunately for Mr T I do! For many years I was a professional driver with a good reputation, and believe me this car has not had a hard time. I bought it with the intention of keeping it for a minimum of 10 years, and want minimum hassle in that time ... I'm not thrashing it, quite the opposite.

No its not going to make me want to sell the car, its not going to get me particularly upset, I still like it and it does what I want/need it to do, its more just plain disappointing. At this stage in its life it is proving to be less reliable, more hassle, and more expensive to run than the Peugeot I bought new over 14 years ago (still going with its new owner).

For me the hype hasn't been reflected in reality, IMO its just another run of the mill car, nothing special. I doubt if I'll be knocking on Mr T's door when it comes replacement time, I doubt the Mrs who also currrently runs a Toyota will either, run of the mill cars are available elsewhere for less of the hard earned.

[ptaurissr]

May be worth punting for the strip and reassembly of the calipers? Worst case £70 seems ok price although you could have all four calipers stripped and reassembled at an independent dealer for that price

Or you could do it yourself and as you say with respect the disc, its a lot cheaper DIY...

[Rumbly]

Did press the dealer to do the strip but they were'nt for having it, I can understand that as Mr T won't be re-imbursing them for the time. ;)

I'll probably strip the fronts myself this weekend at least to sort out any binding and examine the calipers for sticky pistons. As the rears are not binding they can get left for another time probably to just do the whole thing and replace the discs and pads. I just really didn't expect to be getting the spanners out this early in its life

I'm not a big fan of rear calipers with integrated handbrake mechanism, had a Golf GTI with them and ended up having to replace both rear calipers ;) think thats the only calipers I ever replaced, and I've had some real old sheds in my time

Think it was Volvo?? at one time had seperate drums for the handbrake, doing rear pads on them was a doddle, no winding back of pistons etc.

Worst ever I think was the Rover 2000/3500 rears, De Dion rear axle with inboard discs, skint knuckles and sweary words :censor:

[Rumbly]

Stripped all the brakes at the weekend, all four were binding to some degree. Front pads still have 8mm left on them, didn't measure rears but plenty of meat left on them yet. Caliper pistons were all free, so binding caused by the pads sticking in the assorted brake dust and corrosion, 2 of the pads were really quite stubborn to remove. Now its all greased up back together, no binding and the brake squeal has gone :)

Unfortunately I have mislaid my micrometer so couldn't measure the discs, but visual inspection would indicate they they are worn but not yet really excessive, will have a look at that again when I find the micrometer!!

Has anybody got any recommendations for quality aftermarket discs / pads? I sure won't be buying Toyota ones when it does come time for replacement!

[ptaurissr]

Try www.ebcbrakesdirect.com

Have used them for my previous cars, I went for the upgraded pads

[Daveyonthemove]

I've tried Ferodo DS200 (I think that was the name) pads on a previous car and they were very good when paired to a set of drilled and grooved discs.

Not cheap, but i never have gone for the cheapest option, i prefer good quality.

[Heidfirst]

Has anybody got any recommendations for quality aftermarket discs / pads? I sure won't be buying Toyota ones when it does come time for replacement!

What's your budget?

I'm now running MTEC discs & Ferodo Premier pads but if you want to spend a bit more then maybe Black Diamond?