Even Mr T Can't Find Fault

[RonnieRoo22]

This morning towed my Avensis in to Mr T, and after being in there all day I just rang. Even they cannot find the fault. So I thought to cheer myself up we could take bets (prestige only not money)

I have listed the syptoms below:

Originally slow to start 6-10 seconds (hot or cold)

No Smoke - No Judder - 48-55mpg

Changed starter motor - new not recon, as have been asked this.

Changed heater plugs

Changed Battery

Changed fuel filter and replaced injectors - tested and working find.

Once injectors changed - started first time but ran rough, so booked in for ECU coding drove 1.5 miles and ECU setting came back ok. Ran so noisy I turned it off, and has never started again.

Not even at Mr T - despite a day of them trying their best.

What's your opinion????? Will post the results on the forum, so watch this space.

Ronnie Roo (Girl)

[t-spiritpete]

This morning towed my Avensis in to Mr T, and after being in there all day I just rang. Even they cannot find the fault. So I thought to cheer myself up we could take bets (prestige only not money)

I have listed the syptoms below:

Originally slow to start 6-10 seconds (hot or cold)

No Smoke - No Judder - 48-55mpg

Changed starter motor - new not recon, as have been asked this.

Changed heater plugs

Changed battery

Changed fuel filter and replaced injectors - tested and working find.

Once injectors changed - started first time but ran rough, so booked in for ECU coding drove 1.5 miles and ECU setting came back ok. Ran so noisy I turned it off, and has never started again.

Not even at Mr T - despite a day of them trying their best.

What's your opinion????? Will post the results on the forum, so watch this space.

Ronnie Roo (Girl)

Hi again, well that was bad news for you, I wonder if you can find out the answers to a couple of questions ... if the 2 new and 2 cleaned injectors were fitted by a local garage how did they apply the compensation codes for each injector as this can only be done by a Toyota dealer???

If these codes were not put into the ECU the car would run very very rough and give a off a sound called diesel knock .... only louder!! Is this the noise you refer to, if so it is 100% injectors at fault. If Mr T can't start the car OR you didn't tell them about the injectors then they may not be able to fault find your car easily but in saying that they should still be able to program the injector codes into the ECU. I am led to believe that a (unnamed) company has been selling recon injectors as new ones leading to a few cars being affected even at Toyota dealers so something else to think about.

I'm not a betting man but if I was ............... ;),

Regards, good luck and keep in touch ... Pete.

[Darius28]

No point spending more money on this car, just get rid of it. I know that you have spent a fortune already, but it gives you more head ache than a joy.

[Daveyonthemove]

Not everyone is in a position to get rid of a car and replace it with something else.

[Jan&tone]

Not everyone is in a position to get rid of a car and replace it with something else.

Indeed, and that situation comes to all of us both when we start out and when we get older

[Darius28]

Sorry if i upset anyone, but i am thinking i you spend couple grand and the car hasnt been fixed, and god knows how much you will have spend to get it sorted, especially even when "specialists" cant find the fault, and this car parked on the drive, road tax time running, insurance, so basically you are loosing money for not driving it. Times are hard now, i agree that not everyone is in the position to get something else, but its better to get little runner for time being rather than having a car which doesnt start.

[Parts-King]

The trouble is......you spend a fortune and the fix could be just a few pounds away, you fix it and have a great car for years

You have to balance up all the pros and cons, try not to spend a fortune in the first place

Kingo

[RonnieRoo22]

Right guys - here we go again.

Toyota have come back saying it is the injectors. So well done Pete.

Let me bore you with the SAGA I had the diagnosis 1 & 4 running poor 2&3 ok. After discovering they would need to recoded at MR T, opted (wrongly it would seem) to get them re-manufactured. Which gets you new nozzle & rods and tested to 98.2% efficency.

The other 2 were simply ultrasonically cleaned.

Had all four numbered on way out and in, new fuel filter fitted and pipes blow through to ensure clean of dust and dirty diesel.

Wouldn't start, No 4 injector giving jip so replaced, so no longer coded to ECU just the 3.

Started first turn of the key....drove rough just like you described (spot on Pete)

but now will not start, tries to with all its might....it has such heart. I would love to go to the auctions and get another, but I can't give up as I feel this little car would run and run if only we could sort it out.

So now the guy will not refund my cash for the work on the injectors - going well prove it.

I want to ask if I can get a set of 4 diesel injectors from same make and model, is it worth one last shot. I can take it back to SDP (diesel specialist who can recode same as Mr T)

What would you do????? :ffs:

[Daveyonthemove]

Well, if it was me i would pay Toyota to sort it for me, and maybe try to pursue some of the money back through the small claims court from the company who didn't get it right, and denied doing the work.

Chances are, there will be a paper trail to prove that the work was done, and if there isn't then he has a dodgy background, and won't want that being dragged up in court, so you should stand a chance of seeing some cash back.

At the end of the day, you avoided taking it to Mr T the first time round, and its ended up costing more and given you hassle. I'd be inclined to get it put right once and for by the experts, and take it on the chin that a lesson has been learnt the hard way.

[t-spiritpete]

Right guys - here we go again.

Toyota have come back saying it is the injectors. So well done Pete.

Let me bore you with the SAGA I had the diagnosis 1 & 4 running poor 2&3 ok. After discovering they would need to recoded at MR T, opted (wrongly it would seem) to get them re-manufactured. Which gets you new nozzle & rods and tested to 98.2% efficency.

The other 2 were simply ultrasonically cleaned.

Had all four numbered on way out and in, new fuel filter fitted and pipes blow through to ensure clean of dust and dirty diesel.

Wouldn't start, No 4 injector giving jip so replaced, so no longer coded to ECU just the 3.

Started first turn of the key....drove rough just like you described (spot on Pete)

but now will not start, tries to with all its might....it has such heart. I would love to go to the auctions and get another, but I can't give up as I feel this little car would run and run if only we could sort it out.

So now the guy will not refund my cash for the work on the injectors - going well prove it.

I want to ask if I can get a set of 4 diesel injectors from same make and model, is it worth one last shot. I can take it back to SDP (diesel specialist who can recode same as Mr T)

What would you do????? :ffs:

Hi again, 4 new injectors even from a supplier will cost you at least £1,000.00, it's up to you Ronnie OR you could try sending a couple of handy Cheshire lads round to see the guy who ripped you off and ask him very nicely for your money back! ;).

Not much else we can do on the forum now so good luck and keep in touch .... Pete.

[Jamesbelfast]

Even if the injectors are not coded to the ECU it should still start and be driveable.

Something tells me there is more to this than just injectors or there is a specific reason the injectors are failing.

It would appear the injectors are not gaining pressure or firing for some reason.

I would like to see what pressure was being attained in the fuel rail during cranking. If the pressure is too low then the injectors will fail to inject. Reasons for such can be due to a faulty fuel rail, fuel pressure sensor or worse still a failing high pressure fuel pump. Failing internal fuel pump seals are known to damage injectors. A good diesel specialist should be able to diagnose although finding such may be a difficulty.

Sadly many garages take the view just keep replacing components until its sorted at your expense of course.

If it were mine I would like to see some hard evidence before going any further.:)

[RonnieRoo22]

Well, if it was me i would pay Toyota to sort it for me, and maybe try to pursue some of the money back through the small claims court from the company who didn't get it right, and denied doing the work.

Chances are, there will be a paper trail to prove that the work was done, and if there isn't then he has a dodgy background, and won't want that being dragged up in court, so you should stand a chance of seeing some cash back.

At the end of the day, you avoided taking it to Mr T the first time round, and its ended up costing more and given you hassle. I'd be inclined to get it put right once and for by the experts, and take it on the chin that a lesson has been learnt the hard way.

Toyota have quoted me OVER £2500 Plus VAT. For a 2003 d4d - THAT'S NOT REALLY AN OPTION

[RonnieRoo22]

Even if the injectors are not coded to the ECU it should still start and be driveable.

Something tells me there is more to this than just injectors or there is a specific reason the injectors are failing.

It would appear the injectors are not gaining pressure or firing for some reason.

I would like to see what pressure was being attained in the fuel rail during cranking. If the pressure is too low then the injectors will fail to inject. Reasons for such can be due to a faulty fuel rail, fuel pressure sensor or worse still a failing high pressure fuel pump. Failing internal fuel pump seals are known to damage injectors. A good diesel specialist should be able to diagnose although finding such may be a difficulty.

Sadly many garages take the view just keep replacing components until its sorted at your expense of course.

If it were mine I would like to see some hard evidence before going any further.:)

[RonnieRoo22]

Cheers James Belfast - that is exactly what I have done, gone to a Diesel specialist. told them all them ups and downs. They are going to take the injectors out and test. So that might mean getting my cash back of re-manufacturing dude. (Even if it's in small claims) Not being treated like idiot anymore.

I have found a set of four, if they come back shagged - but then will need them recoded.

Thanks for all your help and advice - always gratefully appreciated.

[L666 DER]

Hello just read your post and i had a similar problem but mine was still under warranty as bought second hand from toyota. Even toyota were stumped when my 2004 D4D wouldn't start. It would only start when i primed the engine using the primer pump above the fuel filter. Toyota changed and set all four injectors (under warranty luckily). Still the same took it back several times, on the last time they found a very small hairline crack in the fuel filter housing causing air to be drawn into the system hence very very poor starting, they changed that and the filter and the car has been fine ever since. Bought in december 2007 with 45000 miles on now nearly 98000 miles on 3 1/2 yrs later still runing fine. Hope you get this sorted.

I have to add that it was only by chance they spotted the crack in the fuel filter housing.