T180 Struggles To Start

[Phil_1985]

July 2007 T180, 41,000miles.

Purchased this at the end of January with 39,000 on it, from Minories Toyota Durham. The car has full toyota service history, most previous in Oct 2010. I am currently feeding the car V Power and have done since March.

Anyone else had the below issue?

The car must have been left overnight, or at least two hours if it's been driven.

- Starter motor cranks the engine for about 1-2 seconds longer than normal (I know 1-2 seconds isn't much, but it's enough for passers by to turn heads as it isn't 'normal')

- Engine coughs and splutters into life

- No warning lights, once started (it will always start) it idles and drives perfect

This has happened to me three times. If it helps, the smart entry & start system is definitely waiting for the glow plugs to do their job before cranking.

Thanks

[Daveyonthemove]

What condition is the air filter in?

It could be a bit clogged up, as they are meant to be good for 40,000 miles, so would be due a clean or change.

[Phil_1985]

thanks for the reply dave, I checked it back in January when I first got it, and it looked next to new so I assume it was changed at it's forth service in October 2010. (Yeah I dunno, my car has managed 4 services in it's life time!)

[wastedagen]

SSorry don't have an answer but would like to add mine does this every year. Especially when it gets cold. I've found using a 5w30 oil helps as its low viscosity so easy to turn over and fire. But when its real cold mine can turn over for 10 seconds and nothing. I then have to release clutch and try again and usually on the third attempt it will fire.

I've tried everything from glowplugs to oil change to filter change to turning off all ancillaries but nothing helps. I just wait every year with baited breath for when my car won't start.

So if there is a fix out there I'd like to know too.

[AURISTR01]

Do you allow the glow plugs to warm up before attempting to start, allow the orange coil light to go out before trying to start.

• Replace the glow plugs
  
• Have the Battery tested may need replacing
  
• Air filter check & replace always good economy
  
• Fuel filter contaminated replace
  
• Use thinner oil
  
• EGR Valve sticking if so get it cleaned
  

[T Sport 1978]

Had this problem for a long time.

Officially Toyota changed my Battery and EGR valve to no avail.

What i tried myself were a combination of using Redex, cleaning EGR, ECU reset, a thinner oil and not having any electric usage during start up (no fan etc...) improved the symptoms but not curing it.

Good luck trying to solve this, but i think it is in actual fact an inherent fault that manifests over time and it would take more than what i have stated to fix it.

For example, starter motor, glow plug, injectors...etc. Of course i cannot prove it.

[AURISTR01]

I had the same starting issue on a 98 Civic VTI, would not turn over because the key corresponder wouldnt work.

This may sound silly but it actually cured it, the key was losing its edges what I did was sharpen the edges of they key so it kept its shape. The key must have been losing its shape unusual but the immobilser wouldnt recognise it, after I had sharpend the key it always started the first time.

Worth a try

[OldSkoO1]

It is unlikely to be the starter motor on a car of this age

2 other things,

Longer crank can indicate the beginning of high pressure fuel pump failure (unlikely)... No significant cases reported on t180.

Battery condition.

In warmer temps batteries operate more efficiently. I wouldn't exactly call it cold but the last few days have been a bit "fresh" over night. Also a problem in Winter. The Battery needs to turn over the engine to generate enough fuel pressure to start the injection. If the Battery is in a low state of charge it can make the crank longer.

If this only happens from cold I would trickle charge the battery.

Surprisingly batteries are quite important and short journeys and cars left for longer periods of time can create this type of problem.

Sometimes people confuse the issue with air quality, EGR activation etc... I'm surprised toyota starting changing EGR valves as EGR application is disabled at startup RPM#s i.e. <900rpm and also when engine coolant is < 16dC, again at startup.

If you issue also occurs when warm or when ambient temps are > 10 dC then i think it needs further investigation. Start motors, glow plugs and possibly injectors. But if an injector/s were faulty you would really notice it at idle. Very rough idle, almost car shaking.

[OldSkoO1]

I have just re-read the post and realised you run this exclusively on v-power diesel.

vpower diesel is a blend including GTL. GTL actually has less energy per calorific unit than regular diesel. However, GTL ignites more easily and therefore burns more completely and the overall affect is more power, especially through the mid to upper RPM/Power band.

Anyway, specific to starting, because of the lower energy per unit, the initial injection upon crank might need just that little bit more fuel to ignite to produce enough power to engage.

Try Shell Fuel Save and report back.

Fuel save is almost as good. They upped the cetane accelerant so fuel save is nearly as ignitable as vpower, meaning that also burns more cleanly than say supermarket fuels; leaving less soot in general. It doesn't however have the level of detergents you might find in vpower. I don't think vpower could influence the spray patterns or cylinder block to affect performance this side of 150k miles. I have a hunch that the vpower tanks are also not as fresh as they used to be with the current fuel price rate.

[Daveyonthemove]

The theory to that is quite good, but i run mine on Vpower too, and it doesn't have any problems starting in any conditions.

Thats not to say that it isn't the problem (it may be) but i would expect mine to show similar problems if it was fuel related.

[Rumbly]

Tricky one .... others seem to be having a similar problem and have already done the obvious to no effect ... my thoughts for what thems is worth ....

Either its not getting fuel, or it is getting fuel but for some reason its not igniting.

But how to tell if it is getting fuel? If it is getting fuel I'd expect that after cranking for a bit there will be excess fuel in the combustion chambers, so when it does start it will be a bit smokey and you'll smell diesel, is that the case?

If it isn't getting fuel I'd suspect the stop/start arrangement, sorry no idea what that is or how it works on this car.

Symptoms to me would indicate faulty heaters, I don't know what the heater arrangement is on this car, but think you really want to check it out. If it has multiple heaters perhaps not all of them are working? My last diesel had four heaters, the heater light still went out even when all four heaters had failed, so could be the light going out does not indicate that the heaters have actually done their job, again I don't know any specifics on this car. The symptoms my last car (Peugeot) gave when the heaters were failing were very similar to yours, crank for a bit, then splutter into life, on starting was smokey and I could smell diesel. Would then start fine for the rest of the day.

As mentioned by others, Battery. A failing Battery may not supply enough juice for the heaters to get hot enough, and the engine won't crank fast enough to achive sufficient combustion pressure to start well one the first start after standing. While its standing if the Battery is failing, it will lose charge and the voltage will drop, also the engine gets cold making it harder to turn.

[caveman_si]

Sounds like a similar issue to http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=124048

But for a car to not start the list of possible causes is quite short, either its not getting the right amount of fuel or the right amounts of air or the right amount of heat to start, or its not turning over properly (All asssuming its not uber cold and then oil issues start. trouble is so many different parts contribute to that these days

SO the usual suspects would be air filter, check it not full, give it a quick bash/hoover to clean it. then check the glow plugs are working, dont know if there is a glow plug relay on the toyota but i would find out and check as relays are often known to go.

Then What about the Battery do you do short journys? if so give the Battery a charge from a trickle charger to see if that helps. If it does then it gould be plug or starter related.

After that your on injectors and fuel pumps/pressure rail as one or other could be leaking both would affect cold starting. Possibly the imobiliser isnt working properly and staying on. Also could be issues with the scv in the fuel side.

But for list of things I would do : Check airfilter (clean or change as necessary it might not have been done), Charge the Battery and then see if i still get issues. If that doesnt sort it move on to : change fuel filter while not a direct issue could be rubbish in the fuel causing injection issues. and check the glowplugs are working when the car is started. Possibly do an oil (plus filter) change to the lowest oil the car can take eg 5-30 or 0-30 and check the fuel thats going in to the tank is decent. I would also clean the EGR valve and more importantly the inlet manifold where the egr sits. See what happens: Id also try injector cleaner in the tank too to see if that made a difference.

Failing all of those cheap diy options Id try the local dealers and see what they could find.

but coughing and spluttering into life sounds like air/water in the fuel, or poor injectors/glowplugs or rubbish starter/battery

[igormus]

July 2007 T180, 41,000miles.

Purchased this at the end of January with 39,000 on it, from Minories Toyota Durham. The car has full toyota service history, most previous in Oct 2010. I am currently feeding the car V Power and have done since March.

Anyone else had the below issue?

The car must have been left overnight, or at least two hours if it's been driven.

- Starter motor cranks the engine for about 1-2 seconds longer than normal (I know 1-2 seconds isn't much, but it's enough for passers by to turn heads as it isn't 'normal')

- Engine coughs and splutters into life

- No warning lights, once started (it will always start) it idles and drives perfect

This has happened to me three times. If it helps, the smart entry & start system is definitely waiting for the glow plugs to do their job before cranking.

Thanks

hello mate

I'd check with SCV mounted on the fuel injection pump body. It seems both play with you.

Cheers/Igor