2.2 Head Gasket Issue

[tubaman]

Would someone clarify what the warranty is on the D4D 2.2 engine is regarding potential head gasket failures ?

I'm hearing 112K miles/8 year old car etc etc

Would a Toyota technician or knowledgeable forum member put this to rest

[Devon Aygo]

112k/7 years whichever comes first subject to correct servicing, covers both AD series diesel engines 2.0 & 2.2 as fitted to Auris, Avensis, Verso & Rav4

[peterbalcombe]

Does correct servicing necessarily imply exclusively Mr T services?

Peter

[Phoenix999]

What the hell is it with the head gaskets of the Toyota diesel engines

All I seem to read is that they go on both the 2000 and the 2200 engines..... I would consider a 2200 engine next year but not if they suffer inherent failures such as this

[acetip]

Does correct servicing necessarily imply exclusively Mr T services?

Peter

no it does not,as long as genuine toyota parts are used,done at the correct time,and toyotas servicing schedule is followed.if its for the stadard warranty work then the independent garage also has to be vat registered.

[Heidfirst]

What the hell is it with the head gaskets of the Toyota diesel engines

All I seem to read is that they go on both the 2000 and the 2200 engines.....

a quick Google suggests that all is not well in the lands of at least VAG, PSA & Ford diesel head gaskets either...

The Toyota 2000 doesn't seem anywhere near as prone to it as the 2.2 but all these modern high pressure turbo diesels have their problems (turbos, injectors, DMFs etc.).

& whilst I would rather not have it in the first place at least Toyota seem willing to stand behind their product with the unpublicised additional warranty for this problem.

My suggestion would be that if you do the mileage to make the economics of a diesel worthwhile to buy a car with the 5 year/100k warranty, run it upto it & then change it.

If you are only doing something like 8K miles a year stick with petrol.

Oh, & bear in mind that very few people are likely to come onto a forum & raise a thread/post about how their headgasket hasn't gone - forums raise the profile of any problem.

[acetip]

What the hell is it with the head gaskets of the Toyota diesel engines

All I seem to read is that they go on both the 2000 and the 2200 engines.....

a quick Google suggests that all is not well in the lands of at least VAG, PSA & Ford diesel head gaskets either...

The Toyota 2000 doesn't seem anywhere near as prone to it as the 2.2 but all these modern high pressure turbo diesels have their problems (turbos, injectors, DMFs etc.).

& whilst I would rather not have it in the first place at least Toyota seem willing to stand behind their product with the unpublicised additional warranty for this problem.

My suggestion would be that if you do the mileage to make the economics of a diesel worthwhile to buy a car with the 5 year/100k warranty, run it upto it & then change it.

If you are only doing something like 8K miles a year stick with petrol.

Oh, & bear in mind that very few people are likely to come onto a forum & raise a thread/post about how their headgasket hasn't gone - forums raise the profile of any problem.

not suggesting that cylnder head bolts are slack when the gaskets start giving trouble,but the old system of re-tightening these bolts after say 1000 miles as my old passat td.required springs to mind. anyone know what the compression ratio of these modern diesels are.

[Heidfirst]

~18:1 plus or minus a bit.

& fuel injection pressure upto 26,000 psi ...

[Cookie-monster]

It seems that the all aluminium engines seem to give the most problems with HGF, due to the softness and the intolerance to overheating of the metal.

Rover suffered from this problem an awful lot with the K series petrol engine - I know, as I had one and had to do a head gasket change on it - they all seemed to go before 70K miles. The K series was an all aluminium engine - ie. block and head with steel liners, and did not cope well with any slight overheat - it annealed the heads and rendered them scrap. Diesels, due to their higher compression ratios put a lot more stress on the head gaskets, and with an all aluminium engine, such as the 2.2 Toyota diesel engine, the head gasket is the weak point. This engine also seems to have issues with the water pump failing allowing the coolant to leak slowly out of the system, and eventually causing an overheat - which then causes the metal to expand or warp, and thus blows the head gasket. There were also issues with the design of the gasket itself, apparently allowing pockets of coolant to boil within the head gasket, and create tiny channels in the block allowing the combustion gas to escape past the fire rings to the cooling system, thus overpressurising it and blowing coolant out of the expansion tank. This rendered the block scrap, as it cannot be skimmed before head gasket replacement.

With the disasterous record of the Rover K series all aluminium engines blowing head gaskets, I am frankly amazed that more manufacturers are making all aluminium engines now - I know they are lighter and cheaper to make, but why sacrifice a company's reliability and reputation when they start blowing head gaskets? Rover learnt that lesson the hard way!

[acetip]

~18:1 plus or minus a bit.

& fuel injection pressure upto 26,000 psi ...

well thats a bit lower than the vw 1.6 td that was 23-1 but not common rail,rotary fuel pump.was not aware there was any blown gaskets issues with this old type engine.

what ever metals gaskets or cylinder heads/cylinder blocks are made of is no excuse for this failure.this should have been sorted out on development.not left to customers to to discover.what with this and other problems such as oil consumption i wonder what toyota are up to.

[Heidfirst]

~18:1 plus or minus a bit.

& fuel injection pressure upto 26,000 psi ...

well thats a bit lower than the vw 1.6 td that was 23-1 but not common rail,rotary fuel pump.was not aware there was any blown gaskets issues with this old type engine.

you have to compare like with like though & the newer common rails have more problems than the old PDs supposedly.

what with this and other problems such as oil consumption i wonder what toyota are up to.

I'm not aware of there being any oil consumption problems on the Toyota D4Ds?

If you are talking about the older VVTis again Toyota seem to have put in place an extra unpublicised warranty & afaik solved the problem on later iterations.

Tbh again pretty much all other manufacturers have had similar glitches & none of us know the exact figures/% that exhibit the problem - it could just be that forums like this highlight a relatively small no. of failures.

[ormi]

oh yes^^^^^^^^^2.2's and the 1.4 diesels are shocking on oil,shocking!!!

[Heidfirst]

I hope that you are joking but if not what do you consider shocking?

Mine uses less than 0.5l between services.

[acetip]

I hope that you are joking but if not what do you consider shocking?

Mine uses less than 0.5l between services.

no doubt there more toyota owners that are not on toc.and the oil consumption complaints are very common on here.so how many more are there out there are having problems.

there was a time that half a ltr used would be worrying.but we must remember that mileage between oil changes are far longer these days.but as some owners engines use oil and some dont(or very little) then what is the norm.it got to be down to quality control in the engine build.as to all makes having the same problem or modern engines use more oil

i dont buy that.

[pajjy]

there has been no radical change in cylinder bores/piston/piston rings over many many years.yes bore machining has helped with better bedding in so the old fashioned running in is no longer neede.piston ring material may have improved and piston expansion when hot is better controlled,but its all the same basic design.1 piston.2 compression rings, 1 scraper ring per cylinder so why should there be higher oil consumption.

in my family there are toyota (mine) bmw,hyundai,nissan and lexus.non of which need there oil topped up between services so any claim that all engines use a noticable amount does not hold water or should that be oil.

[Heidfirst]

and the oil consumption complaints are very common on here.

for the older VVTis yes but not as far as I'm aware for the 2.0 & 2.2 D4Ds (I have no knowledge of the 1.4 D4Ds as they aren't fitted to anything that I'm interested in).

there was a time that half a ltr used would be worrying.

personally I don't consider under 0.5l used out of 7l over 1 year/10,000 miles at all a concern - my petrol Vauxhalls & Fords all used more than that (from new).

[acetip]

and the oil consumption complaints are very common on here.

for the older VVTis yes but not as far as I'm aware for the 2.0 & 2.2 D4Ds (I have no knowledge of the 1.4 D4Ds as they aren't fitted to anything that I'm interested in).

there was a time that half a ltr used would be worrying.

personally I don't consider under 0.5l used out of 7l over 1 year/10,000 miles at all a concern - my petrol Vauxhalls & Fords all used more than that (from new).

some have oil consumption issues with their toyota engines,some dont.

some have oil consumption issues with their ford,vauxhall,etc engines,some dont.

ive had lots of different makes of cars since about 1960 i cant remenber any of them having

oil cnsumption problems,ive just been lucky i suppose.

there are lots of owners who say they they would never buy a ford,vauxhall etc again cos of problems they have had.there are people on these forums who will never buy a toyota again cos of issues they have experianced.

for every toyota sold there is a least 20 vauxhall or fords sold,cant be that bad if they are so popular.its down to personel choice.

[ormi]

I hope that you are joking but if not what do you consider shocking?

Mine uses less than 0.5l between services.

no im not!!! im a tlt for toyota and i see this every day!!every day!!

[Heidfirst]

.

for every toyota sold there is a least 20 vauxhall or fords sold,

in March 2011 in the UK Ford registered 52,829 cars, Vauxhall 41,578 & Toyota 16,183 - hardly 20 to 1. & of course globally Toyota outsell either.

I hope that you are joking but if not what do you consider shocking?

Mine uses less than 0.5l between services.

no im not!!! im a tlt for toyota and i see this every day!!every day!!

& yet if true it seems that people aren't complaining about it ...? but they do for VVTis?

I've been on here 2 years plus & during that time I would like to think that I've become au fait with the common public complaints of the T25 Avensis. Oil consumption on the diesels was not 1 that had registered with me & I've since used the search engine here with various key words & it's only thrown up the very odd one or two. Of those, there are some where other faults may be at work (e.g. a 2.2 with head/gasket problems - did the head problem cause/lead to oil consumption problems as well or vice versa?).

[Daveyonthemove]

I hope that you are joking but if not what do you consider shocking?

Mine uses less than 0.5l between services.

no im not!!! im a tlt for toyota and i see this every day!!every day!!

Ormi,

Its great to have a Toyota fitter on here with some knowledge about these engines, but you never seem to say much about anything, other than you are a toyota fitter.

If you deal with so many of these problems, how about posting some details about the cause, the symptoms, the cure.... anything???

Not having a go mate, but if you really are a technician then its unlikely that you have joined the forum to ask about the common problems, so i would have thought that you would have joined to offer help or info

[acetip]

was watchng snooker on tv last night,during the mid session interval i was flicking through channels and came across one with the presenter sorting out consumer rights,not sure what the program was as it had already started when i found it.

anyway the first subject was the trouble a astra owner was having.he brought the car with very little miliage on it,but after doing about 7000 miles and checking the oil level regulary the engine ran out of oil causing major damage.the vauxhall dealers where the car was purchased informed him that the engine was beyond repaired and would need replacing,they blamed the owner and said he would have to pay for a new engine.he disputed this but the garage would not budge,so he had no option but to pay for this.it was over £2000 job, after the job was done he insisted the garage contact vauxhall to see if he could be compensated for his costs but they said vauxhall sgreed with them that he should not have let the oil get so low.

anway the program presenter after checking websites about oil consumpsion etc,contacted vauxhall who agreed that the engine considering the miliage should not have ran out of oil in 7000 miles.the owner recieved a cheque for the money he had paid.

another case was a vicar whose vectra he had purchased kept breaking down on the road or faling to start.the garage had the car in many times but the car still played up.anyway after many attempts to cure the problem the said it was the clutch ? this was replaced but car still played up.the garage said its was the D M F and wanted £1500 to fix and blaimed the owner for the failure and refused to start the repairs untill the vicar paid up.

i forgot to mention that both these cars were covered by the original warranties.

once again vauxhall sent an engineer out to inspect the the car after the program presenter contacted them and decide that no way was the vicar could have caused the problem with either the clutch or D M F.the car was repaired with no charge to him.

both owners could not praise vauxhall enough,but considered the garages involved in both cases incompetant.

i am sure others will have seen this on tv as it was no doubt a repeat.wish i had caught it from the start.

like all makes there is good and bad main dealers.

[Parts-King]

There are good and bad in everything in life

The manufacturers lay down the rules, they "interpret" the way certain claims should be handled and pass that information to the dealer. The dealer is often damned if he does and damned if he doesnt. When an item such as an engine is known to fail, there will be criteria to follow such as how much oil is it using? Is there a full service history? there may possibly be other criteria to consider. The dealer interprets the rules and lets say Toyota demand a full service history and the car doesnt have a full history, then the dealer knows the claim would be rejected because it doesnt meet the criteria. The dealer informs the customer, the customer goes off like and exocet and contacts Toyota, and Toyota decide to pay 50/50 or some sort of contribution and the customer thinks the dealer is an idiot because he should have been authorised to make that decision

I'm not saying the above scenario happens daily it doesnt, but it's a fine line between the dealer getting paid to carry out work on behalf of the manufacturer and not being paid at all. Oh and by the way, he who shouts loudest does not always gets what he wants, I always tell people to be firm but polite, it will be far better received than shouting from the rooftops

Kingo

[acetip]

There are good and bad in everything in life

The manufacturers lay down the rules, they "interpret" the way certain claims should be handled and pass that information to the dealer. The dealer is often damned if he does and damned if he doesnt. When an item such as an engine is known to fail, there will be criteria to follow such as how much oil is it using? Is there a full service history? there may possibly be other criteria to consider. The dealer interprets the rules and lets say Toyota demand a full service history and the car doesnt have a full history, then the dealer knows the claim would be rejected because it doesnt meet the criteria. The dealer informs the customer, the customer goes off like and exocet and contacts Toyota, and Toyota decide to pay 50/50 or some sort of contribution and the customer thinks the dealer is an idiot because he should have been authorised to make that decision

I'm not saying the above scenario happens daily it doesnt, but it's a fine line between the dealer getting paid to carry out work on behalf of the manufacturer and not being paid at all. Oh and by the way, he who shouts loudest does not always gets what he wants, I always tell people to be firm but polite, it will be far better received than shouting from the rooftops

Kingo

HI Kingo, I see the point your making.two sides to every dispute.

[Parts-King]

Indeed Acetip, the dealer has to perform a balancing act, sometimes he falls off the wire, but he tries not to do it too many times.....it hurts!

[ormi]

I hope that you are joking but if not what do you consider shocking?

Mine uses less than 0.5l between services.

no im not!!! im a tlt for toyota and i see this every day!!every day!!

Ormi,

Its great to have a Toyota fitter on here with some knowledge about these engines, but you never seem to say much about anything, other than you are a toyota fitter.

If you deal with so many of these problems, how about posting some details about the cause, the symptoms, the cure.... anything???

Not having a go mate, but if you really are a technician then its unlikely that you have joined the forum to ask about the common problems, so i would have thought that you would have joined to offer help or info

fitter!!!!!!!!Removed! fitter!!behave yourself!!SMT,TLT,ATA and MOT tester......do you have any idea of how many times i have answered and gave a detailed list of what gets replaced and what happens and how????? the rav,aurus and avensis all share the same engine this faults through out the whole range inc the lexus is220!!if people would use the search function instead of just starting a new thread they would see....so far i have helped 4 yes 4 people get new engines when their dealers wouldnt help them and refused to help in anyway!!also i have even put up pics of the damaged caused by the fault...so how much more info would you like?how many 12mm bolts hold the bottom end on? how you lock the balancing shafts?how many 90 deg turns after the first torque of 50nm how you get the sump off?

me in the middle

having a giggle at work

the damaged caused