2.2 Head Gasket Issue

[Daveyonthemove]

Apologies.

Where you wrote that you are a tlt, i misread that as 'TIT' and assumed it was a typo for FIT (abbreviated from Fitter) so that was a genuine mistake.

I'm not saying you haven't helped anyone on here, but your response wasn't helpful on this occasion.

If you had provided a link to one of your posts where you have helped someone the OP would have been able to read it and get your valuable knowledge without having to repeat yourself.

No offence intended

[ormi]

Apologies.

Where you wrote that you are a tlt, i misread that as 'TIT' and assumed it was a typo for FIT (abbreviated from Fitter) so that was a genuine mistake.

I'm not saying you haven't helped anyone on here, but your response wasn't helpful on this occasion.

If you had provided a link to one of your posts where you have helped someone the OP would have been able to read it and get your valuable knowledge without having to repeat yourself.

No offence intended

photos and thanks from a member

more help

and more

more

more help with list of whats changed

and all thats just on engine gasket problems

[acetip]

Apologies.

Where you wrote that you are a tlt, i misread that as 'TIT' and assumed it was a typo for FIT (abbreviated from Fitter) so that was a genuine mistake.

I'm not saying you haven't helped anyone on here, but your response wasn't helpful on this occasion.

If you had provided a link to one of your posts where you have helped someone the OP would have been able to read it and get your valuable knowledge without having to repeat yourself.

No offence intended

photos and thanks from a member

more help

and more

more

more help with list of whats changed

and all thats just on engine gasket problems

Hi Ormi

no one can say that you have not helped many people on these forums.

you no doubt have lots of experiance with toyota a products,and have attended many toyota courses to obtain your title technician.but you seem to think this title is somewhat superior to someone he calls himself a fitter as i used to myself when i was on the tools as they say.being a fitter is not an assembler of say an engine,but hand building an engine so its exactly meets the makers spec not near enough is good enough.there are plenty of fitters or come to that mechanics,who have been in the motor trade far longer than you with experiance of many different makes of engines and vehicles this does not make them lesser qualified to do their job.you seem to be full of your own (perceived) importance.when you have a wider range of experiance of including other vehicles,you may be entitled blow your own horn.

self praise is no recommendation.

[GPO]

Having read through all of the above, how common an issue is this with the 2.2 diesel ? Is it 5%, 50% or more vehicles affected ?

None of the motoring press' reviews appear to report the problem, and around here the 2.2 avensis saloon seems to be commonly used as a taxi, which appears to suggests no great reliability problems.

Any thoughts anyone ?

[Heidfirst]

Having read through all of the above, how common an issue is this with the 2.2 diesel ? Is it 5%, 50% or more vehicles affected ?

the only people that really know are Toyota & they aren't talking.

If you talk to any dealer the head gasket is a known issue & obviously common enough that Toyota have set a policy of this unpublicised extended warranty.

I'm guessing but I would say that it's likely to be under 5% & quite possibly under 1% as otherwise it would be likely to be far more publicly known.

As for high oil consumption on 2.2s it strikes me as far less common.

[ormi]

Apologies.

Where you wrote that you are a tlt, i misread that as 'TIT' and assumed it was a typo for FIT (abbreviated from Fitter) so that was a genuine mistake.

I'm not saying you haven't helped anyone on here, but your response wasn't helpful on this occasion.

If you had provided a link to one of your posts where you have helped someone the OP would have been able to read it and get your valuable knowledge without having to repeat yourself.

No offence intended

photos and thanks from a member

more help

and more

more

more help with list of whats changed

and all thats just on engine gasket problems

Hi Ormi

no one can say that you have not helped many people on these forums.

you no doubt have lots of experiance with toyota a products,and have attended many toyota courses to obtain your title technician.but you seem to think this title is somewhat superior to someone he calls himself a fitter as i used to myself when i was on the tools as they say.being a fitter is not an assembler of say an engine,but hand building an engine so its exactly meets the makers spec not near enough is good enough.there are plenty of fitters or come to that mechanics,who have been in the motor trade far longer than you with experiance of many different makes of engines and vehicles this does not make them lesser qualified to do their job.you seem to be full of your own (perceived) importance.when you have a wider range of experiance of including other vehicles,you may be entitled blow your own horn.

self praise is no recommendation.

also have plenty experiance with reno spent many years working on them,also bmw and merc also vauxhall...im not blowing my own trumpet i give advise then i get a key board warrior who is not in the trade and is a bin man for all i know questioning how i know about faults and how i know how to fix them...

fitter....ie fits parts doesnt fix or investigate whats wrong(kwikfit etc)

tec....will strip find the problem and then rebuild

so forgive me if i dislike being called a fitter after all the courses and studying ive had to do..

if you were a manager of tescos would you like being called a trolly pusher...no..

also i dont think other tecs are less qualified but i dont think you will find many non toyota garages taking on a 2.2 rebuild due to lack of info...

[Daveyonthemove]

If you are refering to me, then you have misread my post and got the wrong end of the stick.

I asked why you read the thread about a head gasket issue, and only wrote about how you are a technician and see this everyday. It wasn't a helpful post from a technician IMO, but you then went on to link to another thread that had some usefull info in it.

If you don't want to type it all out again, then i can understand that, but if you were to put a link in your signature to one of the threads that you helped on, you could simply respond to future threads with something like: 'Hi, i'm a fully qualified Toyota technician and have seen this problem a lot. Here is a link to a thread where i have explained the problem and what you should do next' or words to that effect.

It looks a bit more helpful, and less of an egotistical boost about how you have all these qualifications that nobody outside of a workshop has heard of.

And for the record, you need to put your bins out on tuesday next week because its a bank holiday! ;)

[ormi]

no mate not you,i got you had misread....im talking about in general i coment then i get a lot of greef as to how why when and how dare i know better and the amount of bad advice thats given is shocking....the only reason i say im a tlt is that it stops most of the greef thats given when i dare to try and help....

and im not slagging off fitters either...you are what you are and ive just been lucky to get to the position im in now fitters dont get the training a tec does..

also the experiance thing yes hes right in a way but just coz your say 40 been working on cars since you were ten in various garages etc doesnt mean youll know more than a 18 year old when it comes to stripping a engine that hes been trained on coz you wont..

heres an example i train firemen how to make a prius/auris safe if its been in a accident....most of them have been in the force longer than ive been a tec...so just coz youve done something for a long time doesnt mean you know better than some one younger than you

[acetip]

no mate not you,i got you had misread....im talking about in general i coment then i get a lot of greef as to how why when and how dare i know better and the amount of bad advice thats given is shocking....the only reason i say im a tlt is that it stops most of the greef thats given when i dare to try and help....

and im not slagging off fitters either...you are what you are and ive just been lucky to get to the position im in now fitters dont get the training a tec does..

also the experiance thing yes hes right in a way but just coz your say 40 been working on cars since you were ten in various garages etc doesnt mean youll know more than a 18 year old when it comes to stripping a engine that hes been trained on coz you wont..

heres an example i train firemen how to make a prius/auris safe if its been in a accident....most of them have been in the force longer than ive been a tec...so just coz youve done something for a long time doesnt mean you know better than some one younger than you

what a load of rubbish fitters dont get training.the name technician is just a name.

dealership were sending fitters/mechanics 50 years ago on makers courses so tha that they could stick up a piece of paper in reception saying so and so had passed been trained to work on the cars they dealt with.yes there were no electronics then as there are now,but you had find the fault without the aid of fault codes,as for stripping down and rebuilding engines fitter/mechanics all did this.now days if a part fails they just replace with new,not repair it.

not knocking your expertise but your arrogence of of having a couple of pieces of paper makes you superor in some sort of way.cos you been given a title you seem to like reminding us of each time you post.have you ever blueprinted an engine,have you ever done cylinder balance with the use of a vacuum gauge,ford you to teach this on their courses once.

just have a little bit of respect for other peoples qualifications thats all i ask.

[ormi]

toyota do not just replace they never have.....if a gear box is noisey it must get stripped and rebuilt same with the engines and diffs and axles theirs no just replacing bits..when we rebuild a 2.2 we get a box of bits nothing is prebuilt..even on cars out of warranty unless the customer supplys an engine

as said i only say what i do when i get a cheeky answer back for advice i give ie how do you know this that and the other

heres a example their was a post about a noise coming from the front when pushing down the clutch their were a few answers most saying the clutch then i came on and gave my answer clutch master cylinder or the ball that the clutch fork pivits on ive never been given so much abuse in my life how can a clutch cylinder make that noise nor can the ball the clutch fork pivits on what would you know.....

you must be the only one moaning because i get a lot of pms asking for help....

[The Cav]

just my tuppence worth here on the tech v fitter debate

most of the main dealership (all manufacturers )techs only replace parts that the hand held computer tells them is faulty

the days of the good old motor Mechanic are a thing of the past....he was the guy who knew by experience what was what and how to rectify the problem

BTW in a fitter in the NHS i repair /Maintain in one of the biggest hospitals in england ...if not europe

[acetip]

toyota do not just replace they never have.....if a gear box is noisey it must get stripped and rebuilt same with the engines and diffs and axles theirs no just replacing bits..when we rebuild a 2.2 we get a box of bits nothing is prebuilt..even on cars out of warranty unless the customer supplys an engine

as said i only say what i do when i get a cheeky answer back for advice i give ie how do you know this that and the other

heres a example their was a post about a noise coming from the front when pushing down the clutch their were a few answers most saying the clutch then i came on and gave my answer clutch master cylinder or the ball that the clutch fork pivits on ive never been given so much abuse in my life how can a clutch cylinder make that noise nor can the ball the clutch fork pivits on what would you know.....

you must be the only one moaning because i get a lot of pms asking for help....

Hi ormi,not disputing your skills and knowledge of the toyota range.your able to help anyone one on these forums with a problem,that you fixed many times before,and know the symptoms and cures.

but what niggles me is how you think the title technician makes you think you are somewhat superior to someone who uses another title.ita only a name thats been adopted in recent years by the motor trade.

before i retired as a workshop supervisor with British Rail,the fitters in the workshop not only worked on the diesel engines but all other equipment associated with rolling stock.

British Rail has realy great training schools in different parts of the UK,which are considered by many as second to none.many of my FITTERS hold national certificates.those who go on to the higher national certifcate are normaly promoted.i am sure my old workmates in BR workshops would be upset to be considered in someway semi skilled as you seem to implied.there are many people about who have served 5 year indentured apprenticeships (including myself) who are proud to have the title fitter.skills are obtaine over many years.

but these days a couple courses at training school and people are considered fully qualified.apprenticeships are now a thing of the past at least the 5 year ones.

but then i suppose thats progress.

do you overhaul starter motors and alternators.do you repair clutch pressure plates and reline drive plates,do fit repair kits to master cylinders.do you repair water pumps do you service injectors.no these are replacement items these days.some toyota workshops are replacing EGR instead of just cleaning them.what does that cost the cusomer i wonder.

.

[Phil_1985]

2007 Auris T180 53,000 miles

I've read in various posts that a black tinge to the coolant is one of the first few signs of HG failure, could anyone please go into any more detail regarding this?

I have a very, very slight black tinge around the edges of my coolant bottle, so slight that I cannot tell by looking outside the bottle. I can only see this black tinge when I open the coolant cap and look into the bottle very carefully.

I'm not worrying too much about it at the moment, or should I be?

Oil consumption is zero.

Thanks

[Mistermena]

Not sure how much more details that I can go into regarding the black tinge. But it would be an idea to get a sniffer test (Or compression test) done at the local Toyota dealer. If you're anywhere near me I could do one for you.

[JackTech]

AD ENGINE headgasket failure is caused by (in early models) deterioration of the H/G coating by the super long life (SLL) coolant. On all models, the failure is caused by carbon stamping on the pistons.

Carbon builds up due to poor combustion, gets very hot in the cylinder, warps head and sometimes block and headgasket fails. 9 times out of 10 the gasket can not be replaced alone, usually head and block warpage.

[Mistermena]

Couldn't have put it better myself! ^^^^^^^^

The reason why you cant get away with a mod HG (After the original factory fit fails) is due to "Shuffle" so a new 3/4 engine replacement has to be done.

[Phil_1985]

Thanks for the replies everyone, and thanks for the kind offer mistermena, much appreciated but unfortunately I'm in the north east of england so it's a bit far! I am due to drive to Port Talbot again in a few months time so keep your eyes out for me on the M4! ;)

I'll mention it to my local dealer, it's booked in for some warranty work next Monday anyway.

[Mistermena]

Thanks for the replies everyone, and thanks for the kind offer mistermena, much appreciated but unfortunately I'm in the north east of england so it's a bit far! I am due to drive to Port Talbot again in a few months time so keep your eyes out for me on the M4! ;)

I'll mention it to my local dealer, it's booked in for some warranty work next Monday anyway.

Not a problem mate. If your down this way send me a PM and I'll sort it for you! Unless its been delt with by the dealer. Good luck with it :)

[Jonesfamilyn11]

Hi there. I have a 2007 plate 2.2 Dbd t3 spirit. Bought in December from Car Giant. It has 82 k on the clock. Driving up to southport in April (first big run) it started overheating. Drop revs and engine speed and it cooled. Also noticed heating blowing cold. Toyota said they would replace the head gasket etc pretty much straight away. Unfortunately the engine was much worse and this did not work. Yesterday Toyota Europe have agreed to put a brand new engine in. I just have to pay 239 for new clutch assembly ( which was on way out). You buy a Toyota for reliability and bullet proof technology. But when it does go wrong you buy it for customer service. Toyota have been excellent. 

The car had been one owner before and had full service history but not Toyota main dealer. 

[Red diesel]

Hi there. I have a 2007 plate 2.2 Dbd t3 spirit. Bought in December from Car Giant. It has 82 k on the clock. Driving up to southport in April (first big run) it started overheating. Drop revs and engine speed and it cooled. Also noticed heating blowing cold. Toyota said they would replace the head gasket etc pretty much straight away. Unfortunately the engine was much worse and this did not work. Yesterday Toyota Europe have agreed to put a brand new engine in. I just have to pay 239 for new clutch assembly ( which was on way out). You buy a Toyota for reliability and bullet proof technology. But when it does go wrong you buy it for customer service. Toyota have been excellent.

The car had been one owner before and had full service history but not Toyota main dealer.

How did Toyota Europe get involved??? - it would be interesting to know because some of the forum members here have had issues

with Toyota GB on various points - Prius Gen 3 warranties for example.

Red diesel

[Jonesfamilyn11]

Hello Red

Not sure how Toyota Europe got involved, but it has been 6 weeks since I first drove it in. The dealership followed the bulletin step by step go repair and at each stage had to submit reports etc to Toyota. When the engine was completely written off it had to be OK'd and the chap I was dealing with said it was through T Europe.

[Parts-King]

NEVER Try and deal with Toyota Europe or Japan if you have a problem. It will only be refered back to TGB and you will waste time

ALWAYS deal with Toyota GB

Toyota GB are a part of Toyota Europe and sometimes things get refered back to Europe by TGB to see who is going to pay! I'm paraphrasing, but sometimes issues are shuffled back and forth, as a customer you should always deal with your selling dealer first and then TGB

Kingo