Brake Problems And Prius Ownership Anxiety

[bigbadzee]

Greetings all!

i have just recently bought a 2006 prius (T Spirit model) with 46k miles on the clock. having owned it for just over a week i have been extremely happy with the car averaging over 50mpg around town and almost 70mpg on highways!!! anyway i took it into a local garage today (HiQonline) for its full service, as part of the process they dissembled the brakes to inspect them. unfortunately when they put it all back together, all the brake related lights have come on (VSC, ABS, anti skid, hand brake) and despite the mechanics efforts to reset them, could not turn them off. when the car is turned off the brake pedal now feels loose and makes a funny twang noise as if it has come off its spring. there are also dull noises coming form the brakes when i am driving the car and turn the steering wheel full lock to the right or left. what has really annoyed and scared me is that when i now drive the car and brake, on releasing the brake pedal i get the feeling the brakes do not disengage immediately, instead there is some lag with the brakes disengaging a second after i have removed my foot from the brake pedal and makes the car ***** a little before coming to a stop. the car also feels sluggish to drive and on the drive back home only managed to achieve 45mpg (heart breaking!). the mechanic has promised to take a look at the car next tuesday (we have a long public holiday this weekend so most stores will be closed) leaving me to suffer 4 days of anxiety and non use of my car.

i have read various posts on the priuschat forum indicating the problems could be related to difference in pressure on brake sensors when they dissembled the brakes tripping all the lights or even actuator failure. frankly i have lost confidence in this mechanic and will probably have to take it to the main dealer to rectify his errors. this will be a cost i can ill afford and defeats the purpose of buying a prius to save on paying extortionate sums of money for gas (currently £1.33/litre), if i end up having to spend any savings from the cost of gas being spent on disproportionate costs on serviing the car.

can the community suggest any way i can try and diagnose the problem (without the aid of scanning tools - i don't have any and all shops are shut this weekend anyway) so i can confront this mencahnic next tuesday and ask him to pay for the bill at the main dealer as i suspect he has screwed up my car. can anyone suggest a prius specialist in the london area who could take a look at my car? any suggestions you make would be very much appreciated else my prius ownership may be very short lived!

thanks, Zee.

[Jan&tone]

First of all, welcome to TOC

There has been some discussion on here regarding the servicing of Prius and the general opinion is that unless you go to a main dealer, or a Local garage that has a Prius specialist you will have trouble. The Prius is not like any other car (except the Auris and other hybrids from Mr T), the braking system is linked in with the regeneration of Battery power etc, I don't know all the technical details, but suffice it to say that you boobed!

Sorry to have to tell you this but IMO the Toyota Hybrids should only be touched by specialists! Some of us Prius owners have a service plan with Mr T, personally I pay just 13.82 a month for 30 months which gives me, at my mileage, 3 years servicing and the first MOT. Not a great deal to find and certainly less than the cost of petrol for my old AVensis.

[steverally]

Greetings all!

i have just recently bought a 2006 prius (T Spirit model) with 46k miles on the clock. having owned it for just over a week i have been extremely happy with the car averaging over 50mpg around town and almost 70mpg on highways!!! anyway i took it into a local garage today (HiQonline) for its full service, as part of the process they dissembled the brakes to inspect them. unfortunately when they put it all back together, all the brake related lights have come on (VSC, ABS, anti skid, hand brake) and despite the mechanics efforts to reset them, could not turn them off. when the car is turned off the brake pedal now feels loose and makes a funny twang noise as if it has come off its spring. there are also dull noises coming form the brakes when i am driving the car and turn the steering wheel full lock to the right or left. what has really annoyed and scared me is that when i now drive the car and brake, on releasing the brake pedal i get the feeling the brakes do not disengage immediately, instead there is some lag with the brakes disengaging a second after i have removed my foot from the brake pedal and makes the car ***** a little before coming to a stop. the car also feels sluggish to drive and on the drive back home only managed to achieve 45mpg (heart breaking!). the mechanic has promised to take a look at the car next tuesday (we have a long public holiday this weekend so most stores will be closed) leaving me to suffer 4 days of anxiety and non use of my car.

i have read various posts on the priuschat forum indicating the problems could be related to difference in pressure on brake sensors when they dissembled the brakes tripping all the lights or even actuator failure. frankly i have lost confidence in this mechanic and will probably have to take it to the main dealer to rectify his errors. this will be a cost i can ill afford and defeats the purpose of buying a prius to save on paying extortionate sums of money for gas (currently £1.33/litre), if i end up having to spend any savings from the cost of gas being spent on disproportionate costs on serviing the car.

can the community suggest any way i can try and diagnose the problem (without the aid of scanning tools - i don't have any and all shops are shut this weekend anyway) so i can confront this mencahnic next tuesday and ask him to pay for the bill at the main dealer as i suspect he has screwed up my car. can anyone suggest a prius specialist in the london area who could take a look at my car? any suggestions you make would be very much appreciated else my prius ownership may be very short lived!

thanks, Zee.

Welcome,

Good to hear your pleased with your Prius, well, err were. As Jan & Tone say, and I'd have to agree service however basic on the Prius should be left to Mr T. The car is very complex and needs a mechanic/technician whose been fully trained on its systems, ordinary high street garagaes are not!

The brakes may look standard but as said are linked into the regeneration system and therefore through the cars electronically controlled systems... so I think you best option in this instance, even though it will cost you will be to get along to your local Mr T asap, otherwise you'll never have confidence that the brakes are working correctly and worse still you may loose out on the economy you so greatly desire.

Sorry its not an easy soulution and the answer you were hoping for.

[Chris Dance]

I agree with all the other comments. The only solution is take it to a Toyota dealer. Other garages and repair centres do not understand the high tech car the Prius is. I am sure Toyota will sort the problem and perhaps the other garage should be approached to pay some of the cost!!!

[Seamaster73]

The garage that caused the problem should rectify it, or pay for a Toyota dealership to do so. There is no reason why you should accept this.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Hmmm not convinced by this thread.

There are no brake problems with the Prius. This post is very very similar to troll posts in the USA PriusChat forum.

This guy posted his first thread about non existant problems. He also refers to petrol as gas and bank holidays as public holidays.

I'm not buying this one jot.

Troll alert!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

[bigbadzee]

Thank you all for your responses and suggestions.

I tracked down some posts on Priuschat and had a go at using a jumper wire on the OBD connector to figure out the error codes. Unfortunately things didnt go according to plan. When I turned it on, instead of the warning lights flashing in sequence they started doing a crazy dance by flashing in constantly changing combinations. Having watched them for a while I couldn't identify any discernible pattern for identifying DTC codes. Additionally the engine management light came on, and the triangle of death! now this really freaked me out. I also noticed drive would not engage on the gearshift selector. I subsequently unhooked the auxiliary Battery to try and reset the system which seems to have gotten rid of these new problems so I am now back where I started with all the brake warning lights on again. :-(

I am thinking I will give the mechanic an opportunity to redeem themselves by seeing if they can reset the brake system as he said he would do then confornt him about taking it to the dealer and asking him to pay for it.

Whilst I am in no way a trained mechanic I know a little about cars and can do basic stuff. What I am genuinely surprised at is that I just can't seem to find any toyota specialist outside of the dealer network. Not even any ex-toyota mechanics. I would have thought that given the Prius has been around in the UK for over 7 years now, independent mechanics would have managed to get their heads around it... Or am I missing something here?

Now I am not shy of using a main dealer for work but don't think we should have to rely on them for every little thing that needs doing on a car hence would be interested in tracking down a Toyota specialist just so that the option (and a second opinion) is there if needed. I've found generally the yanks are very good at this (putting power into the hands of the people) in consumer affairs but we Brits are a little more reserved and are sometimes just resigned to our fate!

I think it would be still worthwhile finding a Toyota mechanic or tech even if it's just them commenting on this forum, what are your thoughts?

Zee.

[bigbadzee]

Hmmm not convinced by this thread.

There are no brake problems with the Prius. This post is very very similar to troll posts in the USA PriusChat forum.

This guy posted his first thread about non existant problems. He also refers to petrol as gas and bank holidays as public holidays.

I'm not buying this one jot.

Troll alert!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

@grumpy cabby..

With all due respect, just cos I refer to the bank holiday as public holidays and petrol as gas does not make this a troll post! Having lived abroad for a number of years you get used to using non colloquial english that everyone should understand... Being a londoner, maybe if i sprinkled some cockney in my post would make you a bit happier, guvnor!

Besides FYI I initially posted on the PC forum first to garner some suggestions from them and subsequently copy and pasted onto here. I can assure you the problems are real and suggestions are appreciated.

[cbcdesign]

I think it would be still worthwhile finding a Toyota mechanic or tech even if it's just them commenting on this forum, what are your thoughts?

Zee.

I think you are living in the past when cars were basic and any trained mechanic who knew how an internal combustion engine worked could service a car! Those days are looooong gone.

The prius is one of the most advanced vehicles on the road and the only people qualified to work on it are Main dealers. I suggest you take it to them and forget all about local garages.

[Parts-King]

The wrong oil grade in it springs to mind on the fuel consumption issue

As for brakes, why did they strip them down to inspect them on a routine service?

It is down to HiQ to put it right, if they cant, then take it to a Toyota dealer and sue HiQ for your costs.

Kingo

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Hmmm not convinced by this thread.

There are no brake problems with the Prius. This post is very very similar to troll posts in the USA PriusChat forum.

This guy posted his first thread about non existant problems. He also refers to petrol as gas and bank holidays as public holidays.

I'm not buying this one jot.

Troll alert!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

@grumpy cabby..

With all due respect, just cos I refer to the bank holiday as public holidays and petrol as gas does not make this a troll post! Having lived abroad for a number of years you get used to using non colloquial english that everyone should understand... Being a londoner, maybe if i sprinkled some cockney in my post would make you a bit happier, guvnor!

Besides FYI I initially posted on the PC forum first to garner some suggestions from them and subsequently copy and pasted onto here. I can assure you the problems are real and suggestions are appreciated.

I'm not a grumpy cabbie for nothing!

I stand corrected sir and hope you resolve your problems.

I think Parts King has some good advise - and he's a Toyota dealer who knows his stuff

[Peter Sale]

Sorry to hear this but have to ask why you even took it away in such a state. I think I would have refused to accept the car and demand they supply a suitable alternative if they couldn't resolve the issue immediately.

Surely if the car is in such a bad way then you are committing an offence by driving it knowing that there are possible problems. If you are misfortunate and have an accident you are going to have big problems.

[dee s]

I would take some Legal advice on the matter. Trading standards would be the first place to go.If my memory serves me right, HiQ is a tyre/exhaust place a bit like Kwik fit. I would never trust my Prius to a organisation like them. Try and contact head office and see what they can suggest.

[timberwolf]

Yikes, I wouldn't even trust a tyre/exhaust place to be able to change the engine oil safely on a hybrid - not because changing the oil is a difficult task (although even a lot of main Toyota dealers seem to overfill or get the wrong grade :ffs: !) but because anyone unfamiliar with a hybrid could leave the Prius in READY mode and assume because the engine is not running that the car must be off.

[techi]

Have to agree with the general concensus, only go to a Toyota main dealer. You have my sympathy, learning a valuable lesson the hard way.

[dwilson]

Have to agree with the general concensus, only go to a Toyota main dealer. You have my sympathy, learning a valuable lesson the hard way.

Well we all make mistakes but I too would only use a Toyota dealer for my Prius and I don't find their prices unreasonable compared with other manufacturers. Good luck with getting yout car fixed.

David

[sjrainsford]

I won't bother with the should have gone to Toyota bit, although i am inclined to agree. They aren't quite a normal car and when it comes to servicing the brakes generally don't need to be touched for tens of thousands of miles as most of the braking is done by the electric motor generators for energy recovery. For instance mine has 40k on the clock and the brakes are only approx 50% worn.

Anyway, back to the main problem. The actual friction brakes on the Prius are pretty similar to any other car as much as people would have you think otherwise. The method of brake control is just different in it's most basic sense. It would be my opinion that they should firstly check theyve actually fitted the brakes properly to start with, as I've known even that messed up on normal cars by these chain car places. If anything, you're at least better off going to a proper mechanic rather than a chain full of spotty teens. Second port of call would be to check the wheel rotation sensors, aka ABS sensors. They have a big effect on the Prius.

I'd still be tempted to go to Toyota and suffer the initial cost. You really don't save a lot by going elsewhere with these.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I'd be curious what these brake places like HiQ and Kwikfit charge for a set of front pads as my Toyota dealer charge £100 fitted. Not bad for main dealer price and also the fact that Prius brakes should last much much longer than normal cars.

[chi tang]

I paid around £250 for mr T to change front pads and disc which IMO isnt bad.

Wheel bearing and labour is £979 and Im hoping someone can point me in the direction of a specialist mechanic who can carry this repair out for me.

[unclepoo]

Toyota hybrids need to be put into "service mode" before any work is done...this is done via the obd port, so main Toyota dealership is the best bet.

I had a similar problem, had the rear brake pads changed after the MOT flagged them up as an advisory....the mechanic had the key in his pocket while he worked on the car....nothing strange so far. But when you approach your car, the keyless entry unlocks it....and you hear a little noise from under the bonnet.....this is the brakes pressurising.....so when new pads are fitted, the pistons will need to be pushed/wound back, at the same time as the system pressurising, the result is a fault code of brake system over pressure. The fun starts when you want to start the car....and it wont, and the dash lights up like a x-mas tree.

The fault codes can only be cleared with professional equipment.

[Joseph D]

Toyota hybrids need to be put into "service mode" before any work is done...this is done via the obd port, so main Toyota dealership is the best bet.

I had a similar problem, had the rear brake pads changed ...

This is a false statement, in that it does not apply to "any work done." Most repairs can be done by non-toyota service shops, just so long as they know what they're doing. Even brakes, although there is specialist knowledge to be able to service the brakes without Techstream (the Toyota diagnostic software).

This does not mean that I favour or advise taking your car to any Tom, ***** or Harry to have them work on it.

As always caveat emptor.

LOL, apparently TOC does not like the name D-i-c-k.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

LOL, apparently TOC does not like the name D-i-c-k.

Poor Richard :(

[chi tang]

Mr T called me back and offered to do the wheel bearing for £400 so I gave them the thumbs up.

Still alot of dough but peace of mind knowing the work is done by a pro rather than an avg mechanic.

Work carried out full service, intermediate shaft, steering column and wheel bearing plus labor £1490 which is a saving of £1210.

Thank you Toyota :)