Check Out My Egr Valve

[Davrav]

Sorry to drop a bomb but toyota have issued a warranty bullitin at work about egr valves clogging up with carbon, they say its down to oil consumption so if the code for the egr valve pops up then dont clear it because theyve extended the warranty on it to 7yrs or 110,000, so itl get stripped and modified pistons put in it so suposidly fix the problem, this is for the 2.0 and 2.2 1ad and 2ad engines, ive rebuilt 3 engines in a row the past 3 weeks.

Cheers

So those of us who are cleaning out EGR valves may well be masking the underlying problem

Is there a build date at which the problem was sorted by a production mod?

[anchorman]

Additive manufacturers will claim to have the solution to any engine problem and as long as they can demonstrate some kind of benefit they are probably within their rights to make such statements. However, I believe that the benefit in adding this stuff to low grade fuel is rather more than adding it to high grade - obviously!

I personally will not add an unknown quantity to the fuel, I would rather by the treated fuel in the first place. I know from experience that if you use the high grade fuel then an EGR will get soft black soot inside it rather than carbonised coke. Thats good enough to me as it applies to all the stuff we can't clean like the manifolds and turbos and for those of you with a DPF (D-CAT system) etc.

Right now on to oil. Good quality oil has all the additives it needs and therefore any additives are completely unnecessary. Mr Jedi, you have to stop thinking about "thin" oil. The very best oils are zero viscosity and these have the benefit of being low in friction and get around the very fine voids in the engine at great speed from start up. The fact it is thin makes no difference to the amount of protection it offers because a fluid is not compressable however thin it is. Furthermore Mr RAVCLAN, having a dirty EGR is not necessarily down to a worn engine. You can have a perfectly unworn engine that clogs the EGR because of low grade fuel and the duty cycle and the way the vehicle is driven. In many cases, a dealer that is given the task of clearing a DPF will simply "recondition" it by flogging the !Removed! off your motor for half an hour.

Bin the additives and use good quality fuel and oil and you will get very acceptable results in all respects. As with most things, you get what you pay for.

[Big Kev]

Sorry to drop a bomb but toyota have issued a warranty bullitin at work about egr valves clogging up with carbon, they say its down to oil consumption so if the code for the egr valve pops up then dont clear it because theyve extended the warranty on it to 7yrs or 110,000, so itl get stripped and modified pistons put in it so suposidly fix the problem, this is for the 2.0 and 2.2 1ad and 2ad engines, ive rebuilt 3 engines in a row the past 3 weeks.

Cheers

May I be the first to welcome you, Liam, t'forum of us nutters, and be the second to thank you for what is a very important piece on info re. our cars. When Toyota finally find out who you are, and act accordingly (i.e. render you unemployed for abject honesty), there's a free holiday up here when you're ready. (Nae kids, ah trust.....?)

Big Kev

[liam6200]

Thanks for the warm welcome haha, just thought id mention it as you are all cleaning them out and as you say its an underlying problem, i personaly used to clean them on a service but now i leave them as with this new bullitin it would be better the engine managment light to come so the rebuild cane be done. Toyota have said to us that anything to do with oil consumption/carbon clogging or head gasket failure is due to burning oil via the pistos, modified pistons get fitted in the rebuild along with a de-coke, you wouldnt believe how much carbon/oil is clogging up the intake manifold, il get a pic next time i rebuild one which will be an avensis 2.0 next week!!! Not sure when the cut off point is but id imagine its from the very 1st 2.0 1ad and 2.2 2ad engines right up untill the newer diesel engines that are in the new avensis and so. You have to have a full service history as toyota are getting stricter on this, I would love for this info about the engines to be a sticky somewher as cleaning the egr valves on these engines is the wrong thing to do from know on.

Cheers

[liam6200]

forgot to mention that this applies to all models with these engines and for those who do clean you run the risk of carbon clumps dropping through the hole into the inlet manifold, if the clumps get wedged inbetween a valve then the results could be.. wel il let u figure that one out!!

[anchorman]

Good info Liam and if somebody does have an engine that is using oil they may well be advised to let it clog but how do you explain EGRs clogging on later models that don't use a drop of oil between services? (10k or 12 months).

Previously, al TSBs on oil consumption relied on them using MORE than 1 litre per 1000 miles. Does this still apply or are they now using a blocked EGR as the sole indicator? If they are this is going to keep you very busy indeed.

At the moment this info doesn't make sense to me.

[jedi134]

I wonder if Toyoya will actually inform customers of said fault, as from what has been said, all service managers will welcome warranty work? Anyone been told this is not a common fault yet?

If Dealerships have nothing to hide, then Liams job will be safe

Anchorman I have my suspisions about this thin oil, its not the lower end of the oil that worries me, its the upper end 30 weight. I still think its not capable of holding it together in higher engine demands, and thus burns away in the pistons, where its used as a coolant and lubricant I belive. Why would Volvo state that in extreme driving conditions the engine will use/burn more oil and even go as far to suggest a fully synthetic oil. I belive because this oil will break down at very high temps. A lot quicker than a 40 weight will. I presume a 30 weight oil will have a lot more aditive in it to try and compete with a 40 weight oil, whos to say that these aditives are not up to the job?

Just my opinion on this stuff and I know ive mentioned it before, I know a few people that have changed up a grade in oil from the 5w/30 stuff me included on a TD4 freelander and there comsumption problems have now stopped. 5w40 for winter 10w/40 for summer months.

Just out of interest does anyone know what weight oils the same engine will use if used in a hot climate? say Saudi Arabia for example? will it still use the 5w/30 oils?

Are these problems with pistons and consunption world wide?

[jedi134]

Thanks for the warm welcome haha, just thought id mention it as you are all cleaning them out and as you say its an underlying problem, i personaly used to clean them on a service but now i leave them as with this new bullitin it would be better the engine managment light to come so the rebuild cane be done. Toyota have said to us that anything to do with oil consumption/carbon clogging or head gasket failure is due to burning oil via the pistos, modified pistons get fitted in the rebuild along with a de-coke, you wouldnt believe how much carbon/oil is clogging up the intake manifold, il get a pic next time i rebuild one which will be an avensis 2.0 next week!!! Not sure when the cut off point is but id imagine its from the very 1st 2.0 1ad and 2.2 2ad engines right up untill the newer diesel engines that are in the new avensis and so. You have to have a full service history as toyota are getting stricter on this, I would love for this info about the engines to be a sticky somewher as cleaning the egr valves on these engines is the wrong thing to do from know on.

Cheers

I presume this will be all 2005/06 models 4.3 ravs and upwards diesel engines. whats a 2.0 1 ad ?

[jedi134]

I just found this taken from rav4 world forum, I know not the same engine, but there are concerns about 30 weight oils world wide. Take note of the text in bold, this is from Toyota themselves. Also states that 5w30 oil is best for fuel economy? Errrrrrr but what about engine protection???

I just happen to have a PDF copy of the '09 owner's manual right here on my laptop. According to the manual:

------------------

Oil capacity Drain and refill (Reference)

Without filter- 3.5 L V6 (2GR-FE) engine 6.0 qt. (5.7 L, 5.0 Imp. qt.)

With filter- 3.5 L V6 (2GR-FE) engine 6.4 qt. (6.1 L, 5.4 Imp. qt.)

Oil grade- ILSAC multi-grade engine oil

Recommended oil viscosity- 5W-30 is the oil that provides the optimal level of fuel efficiency.

l The 5W portion of the oil viscosity rating indicates the characteristic

of the oil which allows cold startability. Oils with a lower value before

the W allow for easier starting of the engine in cold weather.

l The 30 in 5W-30 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating

temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited

if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.

[CharlieFarlie]

I'm now extremely confused and totally disappointed !!!!!I bought this car on the basis of Toyota's reliability reputation plus I need a reliable tow car and a winter hack ( I actually dislike Jap cars !) And now it seems that a clean of the EGR valve to make sure that I'm getting max MPG and that the engine will run its best should not be done because it may hide a major engine problem !!

So OK I will run around using far more diesel than needs be and suffer potential rough running ??????

Anyone want to buy My car ????????????????

[jedi134]

I'm now extremely confused and totally disappointed !!!!!I bought this car on the basis of Toyota's reliability reputation plus I need a reliable tow car and a winter hack ( I actually dislike Jap cars !) And now it seems that a clean of the EGR valve to make sure that I'm getting max MPG and that the engine will run its best should not be done because it may hide a major engine problem !!

So OK I will run around using far more diesel than needs be and suffer potential rough running ??????

Anyone want to buy My car ????????????????

No chance!!!!

Maybe this explains why there are so few late 4.2 ravs for sale, because people are holding on to them.

[Mistermena]

This is now getting me concerened again about my T-180! After having 2 new engines(Last one lasting just 8000 mls) fitted and only having around 1000 miles left on the clock befor it goes over the 112k extended warranty limit. I wonder what will happen if the engine now goes again will Mr T help or just say well thats it now?

I understand that Toyota have replaced the engine twice, which I'm very gratful for (But I suspect that the last build could have been a naff job) but will the warranty carry forwards past the 112k for this car as its only just been done? I think theres going to be a few oil burner owners out there starting to sweat, me being one of them.

I think an email to Toyota UK will be on my "To do" list over the weekend...

[bluevortex]

Thanks for the warm welcome haha, just thought id mention it as you are all cleaning them out and as you say its an underlying problem, i personaly used to clean them on a service but now i leave them as with this new bullitin it would be better the engine managment light to come so the rebuild cane be done. Toyota have said to us that anything to do with oil consumption/carbon clogging or head gasket failure is due to burning oil via the pistos, modified pistons get fitted in the rebuild along with a de-coke, you wouldnt believe how much carbon/oil is clogging up the intake manifold, il get a pic next time i rebuild one which will be an avensis 2.0 next week!!! Not sure when the cut off point is but id imagine its from the very 1st 2.0 1ad and 2.2 2ad engines right up untill the newer diesel engines that are in the new avensis and so. You have to have a full service history as toyota are getting stricter on this, I would love for this info about the engines to be a sticky somewher as cleaning the egr valves on these engines is the wrong thing to do from know on.

Cheers

Isn't this just typical. I have already had my car into Toyota (last June) because of warnings lights/limp mode caused by clogged EGR. They cleaned it out for me then free of charge but did not fit any modified parts despite me asking. Now 12 months (15k miles) on I clean out my EGR thinking i'm doing right and now i'm worried I have covered over a more significant problem with the car engine and burning oil? You can'tdo right for trying. I'm wawy to put in BG244 to give this a good clean out as i have been using cheap supermarket fuel - should I?

I'm tempted to take photos into Toyota and show them the condition of my valve (pre cleaning last w/e) and push for modified parts. I notice the oil consumption seems high aswell, now on tendor hooks waiting for my engine to fail...wtf?

Blue

[acetip]

i have auris 1.6 but just only been reading these posts.

if all fuels are the same ,why when tesco and one other supermarket had troubles causing many owners using their fuels to have engine problems.why were there no reports of Shell,Bp,essso etc users having these problems at that time.

on the EGR subject.if blockages are caused by oil consumption,then every engine with an EGR must be using more oil than they should.as they all suffer from this blockage problem no matter what the make is .if the carbon in the EGR is oil based then then the carbon should be showing traces of oil.but the pics posted on here show a dry carbon and dont seem to very oily.

my sons Lexus had a EGR blockage which the local toyota dealer sorted bu the engine does not use any oil between services the dealer never suggested there was any other problem with the engine.

[bluevortex]

on the EGR subject.if blockages are caused by oil consumption,then every engine with an EGR must be using more oil than they should.as they all suffer from this blockage problem no matter what the make is .if the carbon in the EGR is oil based then then the carbon should be showing traces of oil.but the pics posted on here show a dry carbon and dont seem to very oily.

They are my pictures. The carbon was a mixture of dry,hard powder and oily paste!! It was only cleaned 10 months ago by dealer.

Blue

[Davrav]

I just found this taken from rav4 world forum, I know not the same engine, but there are concerns about 30 weight oils world wide. Take note of the text in bold, this is from Toyota themselves. Also states that 5w30 oil is best for fuel economy? Errrrrrr but what about engine protection???

I just happen to have a PDF copy of the '09 owner's manual right here on my laptop. According to the manual:

------------------

Oil capacity Drain and refill (Reference)

Without filter- 3.5 L V6 (2GR-FE) engine 6.0 qt. (5.7 L, 5.0 Imp. qt.)

With filter- 3.5 L V6 (2GR-FE) engine 6.4 qt. (6.1 L, 5.4 Imp. qt.)

Oil grade- ILSAC multi-grade engine oil

Recommended oil viscosity- 5W-30 is the oil that provides the optimal level of fuel efficiency.

l The 5W portion of the oil viscosity rating indicates the characteristic

of the oil which allows cold startability. Oils with a lower value before

the W allow for easier starting of the engine in cold weather.

l The 30 in 5W-30 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating

temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited

if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.

Bear in mind that these details are for V6 petrol engines..........

[liam6200]

I know it sounds daft to drive it with lowered performance until the light comes on but on our bulitin it saysthat a complaint about sluggish performance would lead to being most likly the egr valve thus needing modified parts fitted:

"For all other out of warranty conditions related to AD engine problems, where the customer complaint

can be directly linked to a “carbon clogging” concern, i.e. EGR Valve, DPNR, 5th Injector, EGR Cooler,

blocked manifold, etc., we would accept this as being linked to an oil consumption condition"

Iv attatched the bullitin for yourselves to read, i have no idea what is modified, i just fit them, as for service manages welcoming the work, they should! it doesnt cost them anything because they are getting paid from toyota to do it. just to clarify this for the 2.0L 1AD, 2.2 2AD and the 2.2 d-cat 2AD engines only, the best oil to use is semi synthetic 5w-30 for these engines, any thicker would probably not get round the oil galleries enough.

Cheers, il upload pics of an engine currently in bits tonight when i get home to show you whats wrong.

[liam6200]

Our bullitin

view.pdf

[Big Kev]

I'm now extremely confused and totally disappointed !!!!!I bought this car on the basis of Toyota's reliability reputation plus I need a reliable tow car and a winter hack ( I actually dislike Jap cars !) And now it seems that a clean of the EGR valve to make sure that I'm getting max MPG and that the engine will run its best should not be done because it may hide a major engine problem !!

So OK I will run around using far more diesel than needs be and suffer potential rough running ??????

Anyone want to buy My car ????????????????

No chance!!!!

Maybe this explains why there are so few late 4.2 ravs for sale, because people are holding on to them.

....so that they run the risk of having one of the diesels with a Dual Mass Flywheel problem....? Nah...

Big Kev

[acetip]

Our bullitin

see that if oil consumption exeeds o.5 ltr per 621 miles,then repairs can go ahead.

but petrol car owners who complain of oil consumption and if the oil used is lees than 1 ltre per 1000 miles toyota are not interested. why is that.

[acetip]

Our bullitin

see above,sorry

[acetip]

[quote name='liam6200' timestamp='1304596015' post='1114612

sorry, pc keeps freezing up,getting past it like me.

[acetip]

Our bullitin

ditto

[liam6200]

I dont know about that, nothing reali goes wrong with the petrols that ive seen, maybe thers an oil leak or something on your car, the petrols are generaly good from toyota, apart from being hugely underpowered!

[acetip]

I dont know about that, nothing reali goes wrong with the petrols that ive seen, maybe thers an oil leak or something on your car, the petrols are generaly good from toyota, apart from being hugely underpowered!

i think if you read some of these forums you will see here are plenty of cases of vvti engines owners complaining of oil consumption poblems.as to being under powered my 1.6 vvti is 124 bhp,the later ones are 130 bhp hardly under powered if you compaire to other 1.6.petrol engines.the variable valve timing on both inlet and exhaust helps.