Which Claim Diesels More Fuel Efficient Than Hybrids

[Fluffmeister]

To add fuel to the fire, I never got any higher than low 50-s in my Gen 3 T-Spirit when I owned it. In my current T27 Avensis diseasel I am now getting mid 50-s on a run, I recently got over 600 miles on a tank of diseael going to Inverness and back for work and averaged 50mph on the trip (That's averaged out with the A9 / a couple of pee stops etc and cruising at around 80mph).

I really enjoyed my Prius, but could not adapt my driving style and I am finding that apart from paying road tax the 2.0 D4D is proving more economical (I do around 30k miles a year)

All down to the driver I admit, but I never once saw an average beginning with a "6" on my Gen 3 and over Winter I could get into high 30's.

The D4D engine is an unrefined clanky mess of an engine though, nowhere near as refined as a petrol, and by the current common rail technology found in Fiat / VAG / Peugot / Citroen it feels several generations behind in terms of refinement.

The Prius was a great car, just not for me and my mileage / right foot.

[Jan&tone]

Blimey Fluff low 50's and high30's what on earth were you doing flooring it at every opportunity??

During this last winter, whilst not quite as cold as in Scotland, I averaged high 50's and now the weather has wRmed up it's high 60's

Maybe the petrol loses some of it's oomph as it crosses the border? Or you got the wrong oil at service time.

Fact of the matter is, diesesal is the **** end of refinement witnessed by the extra stuff a diesesal engine has to have on it.

I would rather be behind a petrol car going up some of the hills in Kent and Surrey and on the Isle of Wight than a 2011 diesesel Mondeo farting soot over my nice white car!

[Fluffmeister]

Blimey Fluff low 50's and high30's what on earth were you doing flooring it at every opportunity??

During this last winter, whilst not quite as cold as in Scotland, I averaged high 50's and now the weather has wRmed up it's high 60's

Maybe the petrol loses some of it's oomph as it crosses the border? Or you got the wrong oil at service time.

Fact of the matter is, diesesal is the **** end of refinement witnessed by the extra stuff a diesesal engine has to have on it.

I would rather be behind a petrol car going up some of the hills in Kent and Surrey and on the Isle of Wight than a 2011 diesesel Mondeo farting soot over my nice white car!

I was a bit :) but I work in the Highlands of Scotland a lot and over a 420 mile drive from home to the hotel, cruising at 60 ish vs cruising at 80 ish has a big impact on what time I get to bed LOL (Yes I know the NSL is 70)

I did get hit by the wrong oil on the service as well and had a bit of a tussle to get it sorted and then made the dealer fully aware.

I do agree with you 100% on diseasel, I detest diesel, but with the mileage I do and my driving style it's the only real option. The Avensis never belches any soot out because it has a DPF, but that in itself is a pain in the **** as I had that fail and had it been out of warranty, it would have been the thick end of £2k to repair.

I was really disappointed with the Lexus CT200, it's a prius in an ugly 80's suit so I am thinking of another Prius again next year and forcing myself to adjust my style. After all I have my bike and MX-5 for petrol head fixes, the sad thing is I really really really miss the Prius, the Avensis is the most unreliable car I have owned. So far its had a handbrake actuator, a dpf and other failures, the prius just .....went.

[Jan&tone]

we will be happy to welcome you back to the hybrid fold Fluff, regardless of whether it's a ct200h or a Prius or even an Auris!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

The 2.0 D4D cat engine? Oh dear :(

Hope you don't have problems with it. A couple of my colleagues have had problems with the more powerful D4D cat engine in that the engine block is splitting at about 80k miles (out of warranty) and causing coolant leakage. It's not a cylinder head gasket though the symptoms are similar but the actual engine block is splitting! Not sure if it's a widely known fault but out of a dozen Avensis owners in my company two have had this split at about the same mileage! Then there are the fuel injector issues others have had.

Hopefully you'll be ok but if you start to get symptoms you might have a better idea of what to look out for. Also show's that Toyota aren't quite the bullet proof cars they once were

Erm I'm not trying to rain on your parade here.

[Jan&tone]

Erm I'm not trying to rain on your parade here

Oh yes you are!!! (said in pantomime fashion)

[Jamesbelfast]

Many of the studies into petrol-versus-diesel-verus hybrid seem to ignore the break even point.

Both new diesel and hybrid engined cars are more exspensive to buy new so at what point does the owner begin to see real financial savings.

[Seamaster73]

Too many other factors to consider: eg road tax, benefit in kind tax, congestion charges — one size does not fit all.

[FourFourTwo]

we will be happy to welcome you back to the hybrid fold Fluff, regardless of whether it's a ct200h or a Prius or even an Auris!

Hey, hey, hey.... Don't knock my Auris!!

[Jan&tone]

we will be happy to welcome you back to the hybrid fold Fluff, regardless of whether it's a ct200h or a Prius or even an Auris!

Hey, hey, hey.... Don't knock my Auris!!

Any hybrid... Even a Lexus 450h !!!

[johalareewi]

Both new diesel and hybrid engined cars are more exspensive to buy new so at what point does the owner begin to see real financial savings.

Have a chat with Grumpy Cabbie. His Prius is paying for itself in fuel savings.

[Thrawn60]

To add fuel to the fire, I never got any higher than low 50-s in my Gen 3 T-Spirit when I owned it. In my current T27 Avensis diseasel I am now getting mid 50-s on a run, I recently got over 600 miles on a tank of diseael going to Inverness and back for work and averaged 50mph on the trip (That's averaged out with the A9 / a couple of pee stops etc and cruising at around 80mph).

I really enjoyed my Prius, but could not adapt my driving style and I am finding that apart from paying road tax the 2.0 D4D is proving more economical (I do around 30k miles a year)

All down to the driver I admit, but I never once saw an average beginning with a "6" on my Gen 3 and over Winter I could get into high 30's.

The D4D engine is an unrefined clanky mess of an engine though, nowhere near as refined as a petrol, and by the current common rail technology found in Fiat / VAG / Peugot / Citroen it feels several generations behind in terms of refinement.

The Prius was a great car, just not for me and my mileage / right foot.

I owned a Toyota hilux Vigo 3,0 d4d with turbo and intercooler also automatic gear pickup truck here until I changed to the Prius. I could only get it to around 40mpg on long hauls, but it was very smooth to drive, not giving any black smoke clouds, and it is very quiet car to run, many people that drove with me refused to believe it was a diesel, until they got outside and could hear the engine turn. The nice feature with this gearbox is that it has that direct drive at 70kmh so it drops down to 1500 rpm and at 100kmh it was steady at 2000rpm.

I would not say that they are more clean or efficient, but from a stand still at the red light not many cars could compete with it :) well at least until the 60mph mark, then it lost a bit of breath.

But true enough if you don't drive it sensible and takes good care of it, it will be the smoker and noisy ride... Our company car which is the same model is a horrible ride and it's even one year younger than mine was.

Now in the Prius I got 57mpg on my first tank of fuel and I'm sure it will be better once I get to know the car better, don't think even the most tricked out diesel can do that.

[Red diesel]

Interesting stuff lads

I actually like diesels (particularly older ones) - however theres no way i would entertain a modern common rail diesel unless it was a car i really liked such as

the Peugeot 406. Id only consider it on the 406 because a 3.0 is silly money to tax over here and the 2.0 light pressure turbo petrol is very rare and i actually like the 406.

The reality is that a petrol car is now a far better buy for long term ownership then a diesel - my preferred option on a modern car would be a 1.8 turbo petrol

like the 1.8 T VAG group engine. Nice level of power, nice to drive but not over stressed (i don't like the modern idea of a 1.2 turbo petrol on an Octavia).

Unfortunately the cars with a 1.8 turbo option in a non sporting car (like hot hatches) tend to have their own reliability issues not linked to the engine - like for

example the B6 Passat. You can get that model passat with a 1.8 TFSI engine with 160 ps - and from what i can understand its a nice performer and nice to drive. However the Passat as a car in general is a troublesome beast by all accounts. And then you have the 2.0 turbo set up from Saab - but as ive mentioned elsewhere on here this

week - Saabs have reliability issues too.

Regarding fuel - i would imagine a 1.8 turbo like the Passat above would probably do around 35 mpg - which i know sounds poor, and a diesel would do 55/60 but if the rest of the car wasn't such a ball of dung reliability wise (the Passat) you would save on repairs (hopefully) as id like to think a 1.8 turbo petrol is a well proven

set up (yes they now have direct injection - but direct injection isn't the problem on diesels). However a well driven Prius seems to come very close to a diesel and given the diesels poor reliability plus the fact that the Prius appears excellent reliability wise - close is good enough for me.

Red diesel

[dervdave]

The D4D engine is an unrefined clanky mess of an engine though, nowhere near as refined as a petrol, and by the current common rail technology found in Fiat / VAG / Peugot / Citroen it feels several generations behind in terms of refinement.

Very peculiar, the engine in my 2.0d Verso is a sweet as a nut and very quiet, in fact maybe even a little quieter than than my 2.7d Jaguar which I consider to be one of the most refined of diesel engines.

Unless of course the Avensis has a different 2.0d

[dwilson]

The D4D engine is an unrefined clanky mess of an engine though, nowhere near as refined as a petrol, and by the current common rail technology found in Fiat / VAG / Peugot / Citroen it feels several generations behind in terms of refinement.

Very peculiar, the engine in my 2.0d Verso is a sweet as a nut and very quiet, in fact maybe even a little quieter than than my 2.7d Jaguar which I consider to be one of the most refined of diesel engines.

Unless of course the Avensis has a different 2.0d

The 2.0 D4D I had in a Previa was not refined.

David

[dervdave]

The 2.0 D4D I had in a Previa was not refined.

I don`t doubt it for a minute David, I`ve had plenty unrefined old diesels in the past too ! :D

[dwilson]

The 2.0 D4D I had in a Previa was not refined.

I don`t doubt it for a minute David, I`ve had plenty unrefined old diesels in the past too ! :D

It was my first diesel, bought from new on I think a 52 plate, and I had expected it to be much better for the price. I was so disappointed I traded it in for a Landcruiser on a 54 plate which had a 3.0 D4D engine - I needed the seats at the time - but still not refined. So as my children started leaving home I bought a Rav4 on a 56 plate with a 2.2 diesel which went well but not really refined. I haven't had a diesel since but I have driven Renault and Peugeot minibuses and surprisingly they seemed refiend, and I have been a passenger in a Jag XF with 3 litre diesel and a Mercedes E class and both seemed good.

Prior to my Prius I had a 3 litre petrol Subaru Legacy Spec B which was very, very fast(0 - 100mph in 18 seconds apparently) but drank petrol at a similar rate. Great furn but sooo expensive to run. It was my first auto and I am now hooked - although I still drive my wife's and daughter's manual from time to time.

David

[Fluffmeister]

@Red Diesel

You are not far wide of the Mark, my old Mk2 2.0TFSI Octavia vRS would average around 32-35mpg, that was with a stage 2 Revo setup and lots of other mods. The 1.8 TSi engine in newer generation VAG's is good for 160bhp, many put out more and gives around 35MPG.

The new 2.0TSi engine, the TFSi's replacement would be the pick of the bunch, 200+bhp - 32- 36 MPG, but it's chain driven cams, no timing belt to worry about at 4 years or 60K and no premature cam follower wear either. All that said however, I do between 20 - 30k a year mileage wise so a diseasel still makes sense.

Forecasting the death of diesel is way to premature when you consider that with a few notable exeptions, Toyota being one, the might of VAG and BMW is being thrown behind diesels. I hate diesel, but I tell you what, go and drive a mapped BMW 335D, it's phenomenal and still returns reasonable MPG. I think diesel will be around for years and years to come, look at the amount of diesel options (and remember I am NOT a diesel fan) that you find in manufacturers ranges today, they are not going to junk that research and development, with the exeption of factories like Toyota, who have made a success of hybrid's possibly at the expense of development of their diesel engines.

[FourFourTwo]

I think diesel will be around for years and years to come, look at the amount of diesel options (and remember I am NOT a diesel fan) that you find in manufacturers ranges today, they are not going to junk that research and development.....

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct.

Don't like breathing in all that carcinogenic diesel exhaust?? - Get used to it!!

[Peter Sale]

Whilst on the subject of diesels, I had my first trip on a hybrid bus today - a diesel hybrid double decker bus !

You certainly knew when the engine stopped, rather than quietly like the Prius it was more with a bit of a bang as if it had stalled. Was nice and quiet when it moved off on electric but started the engine very soon.

Not sure it matches my Prius for being enjoyable !

Peter

[Daveyonthemove]

I think diesel will be around for years and years to come, look at the amount of diesel options (and remember I am NOT a diesel fan) that you find in manufacturers ranges today, they are not going to junk that research and development.....

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct.

Don't like breathing in all that carcinogenic diesel exhaust?? - Get used to it!!

But if you look at the D-cat figures for NOX and CO2 levels they are below Euro 5 standards, and when Euro 6 standards come into force the gases will be reduced even further.

Diesels aren't as dirty as they used to be, and when you consider how much CO2 was produced when large ships carried the Prius batteries halfway across the globe, the average modern diesel car isn't too bad after all.

[Thrawn60]

Whilst on the subject of diesels, I had my first trip on a hybrid bus today - a diesel hybrid double decker bus !

You certainly knew when the engine stopped, rather than quietly like the Prius it was more with a bit of a bang as if it had stalled. Was nice and quiet when it moved off on electric but started the engine very soon.

Not sure it matches my Prius for being enjoyable !

Peter

heheh I would love to see those... Huffing puffing and BANG!!! suddenly quiet as a mouse... We only get Gas/Diesel bus out here...

[r04drunner1]

Diesels aren't as dirty as they used to be, and when you consider how much CO2 was produced when large ships carried the Prius batteries halfway across the globe, the average modern diesel car isn't too bad after all.

Oh I think the Prius still holds the CO2 advantage... to say nothing of NOX... overall. After all, all cars nowadays use components sourced from across the globe.

I'd certainly prefer to be sitting alongside or behind a Prius in a traffic jam!

[Seamaster73]

Everything you need to know about diseasel is present in the indelible stench it leaves on you when you fill a car with it.

[hertsnminds]

If you are aiming for 50 - 60 mpg you are not even half way there...

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/267802/skoda_fabia_smashes_economy_record.html

127.9 mpg

1,246 miles from 45 litres, do you care that the car is a diesel manual if it can get you twice as far for the same money as an auto hybrid?

In all of these comparison and hyper-miler headlines what really matters is does the car work for YOU. If you drive in town and less than 100 miles a day then a Geee Whizz or Nissan Leaf might be perfect. Spend your days up and down the motorway, then a diesel auto might do the job. Why do a majority of lorries and buses use diesel engines if they are more costly to run than other technology?