Which Claim Diesels More Fuel Efficient Than Hybrids

[johalareewi]

1,246 miles from 45 litres, do you care that the car is a diesel manual if it can get you twice as far for the same money as an auto hybrid?

Yes if you can't drive a manual and have to have an automatic.

[Jan&tone]

In all of these comparison and hyper-miler headlines what really matters is does the car work for YOU. If you drive in town and less than 100 miles a day then a Geee Whizz or Nissan Leaf might be perfect. Spend your days up and down the motorway, then a diesel auto might do the job. Why do a majority of lorries and buses use diesel engines if they are more costly to run than other technology?

i believe transport companies use red diesel as do farmers?? Could be wrong but they generally (if they are large enough) have their own tanks and pumps and buy fuel wholesale. They do not pay the same as you and I in tesco's!

Hence they use diesel.

[Parts-King]

i believe transport companies use red diesel as do farmers?? Could be wrong but they generally (if they are large enough) have their own tanks and pumps and buy fuel wholesale. They do not pay the same as you and I in tesco's!

Hence they use diesel.

Yes transport companies have their own tanks and buy diesel in bulk but they DO NOT use red diesel. There is no road tax duty on red diesel, it is for off road use only. The penalties for using red diesel in a road going vehicle (if caught) are horrendous. Farmers can use it in tractors etc, so can other "excepted vehicles"

It is one of the checks VOSA do on the side of the road when they stop a lorry and take it to one of their roadside holding points. The name for diesel used to be DERV, to signify it was duty paid Diesel Engined Road Vehicle

From HMRC

Can I run my vehicle on rebated heavy oil (red diesel)?

Only 'excepted vehicles' (Public Notice 75 - Appendix C) can use rebated heavy oil (red diesel) as fuel when used on the public road.

Using rebated heavy oil as road fuel in anything other than an 'excepted vehicle' may render that vehicle liable to seizure. Also, financial penalties may be imposed on the owner/driver of the vehicle.

Public Notice 75 Fuel for diesel vehicles provides further, detailed information.

Kingo

[Daveyonthemove]

Everything you need to know about diseasel is present in the indelible stench it leaves on you when you fill a car with it.

You can tell the flash point from the smell?

You can tell the calorific value from the smell?

You can tell the cetane rating from the smell?

You must have an issue with your nose if you can't smell petrol?

As for it leaving a smell on you, how do you fill your car? Do you stand back from the filler cap and try to get it in from a distance?

Also, if you look around the pump area, there are usually disposable gloves/hand shaped bags available.

All this hatred of diesel because of the smell a ridiculous argument.

[Daveyonthemove]

Diesels aren't as dirty as they used to be, and when you consider how much CO2 was produced when large ships carried the Prius batteries halfway across the globe, the average modern diesel car isn't too bad after all.

Oh I think the Prius still holds the CO2 advantage... to say nothing of NOX... overall. After all, all cars nowadays use components sourced from across the globe.

I'd certainly prefer to be sitting alongside or behind a Prius in a traffic jam!

I'm sure i'm not the only one who has sat behind a prius at a set of lights, and seen exhaust fumes billowing out.

I was under the impression that these cars ran on electric at low speeds.

[Jan&tone]

Kingo, I stand corrected. Thanks.

Davey, you mean my lovely white car has an EXHAUST PIPE!!!!!!!! Wow, I'll have a look for it while I'm on holiday

[Seamaster73]

Everything you need to know about diseasel is present in the indelible stench it leaves on you when you fill a car with it.

You can tell the flash point from the smell? You can tell the calorific value from the smell? You can tell the cetane rating from the smell?

You can tell it's a filthy carry-on.

[Cyker]

Smell? What are you talking about? Yes it has a smell, but Petrol has a much stronger smell by far! This is because it's thinner and evaporates much quickly and is also why you can't smoke or use a mobile phone in a petrol station due to the explosion risk (Diesel doesn't have that problem; It just burns)

No, the PITA with diesel is its thickness... whenever I fill up half the time I always find the previous user has let it drip on the handle and I end up getting it on my hand. :ffs:

As for the Prius exhaust thing, I have seen that only once where a Prius was trying to take a van off the line at some traffic lights and they both floored it when the yellow came on

The cloud from the van was worse tho'

[r04drunner1]

I'd certainly prefer to be sitting alongside or behind a Prius in a traffic jam!

I'm sure i'm not the only one who has sat behind a prius at a set of lights, and seen exhaust fumes billowing out.

I was under the impression that these cars ran on electric at low speeds.

Usually, but it depends on the driver's approach and on circumstances (e.g. state of charge in the Battery, ambient temperature versus climate control setting, use of ECO mode, non-use of EV mode, that sort of thing). At least with a hybrid the driver has a choice.

I was also thinking about the diesel clatter. I like listening to the birds singing while I am driving my Prius in EV and/or stationary in traffic. And yes, modern diesels have a stop-start mechanism so the noise when idling is the same as a Prius i.e. zero. Assuming the diesel driver can do without the air-con that is.

[Daveyonthemove]

Everything you need to know about diseasel is present in the indelible stench it leaves on you when you fill a car with it.

You can tell the flash point from the smell? You can tell the calorific value from the smell? You can tell the cetane rating from the smell?

You can tell it's a filthy carry-on.

Very informative, thans for the input.

[dwilson]

Also, if you look around the pump area, there are usually disposable gloves/hand shaped bags available.

All this hatred of diesel because of the smell a ridiculous argument.

The gloves are there because of the lingering whiff of diesel if it gets on you!

David

[Daveyonthemove]

I'd certainly prefer to be sitting alongside or behind a Prius in a traffic jam!

I'm sure i'm not the only one who has sat behind a prius at a set of lights, and seen exhaust fumes billowing out.

I was under the impression that these cars ran on electric at low speeds.

Usually, but it depends on the driver's approach and on circumstances (e.g. state of charge in the Battery, ambient temperature versus climate control setting, use of ECO mode, non-use of EV mode, that sort of thing). At least with a hybrid the driver has a choice.

I was also thinking about the diesel clatter. I like listening to the birds singing while I am driving my Prius in EV and/or stationary in traffic. And yes, modern diesels have a stop-start mechanism so the noise when idling is the same as a Prius i.e. zero. Assuming the diesel driver can do without the air-con that is.

It's nice to have a choice i guess, but I've never really found the noise of my diesel engine to be that bad. Yes you can hear it, but it's not that loud.

In all honesty, if i feel the need to listen to birds singing, i avoid sitting in my car and get the garden furniture out of the shed instead ;)

Hybrids weren't always around, and the sudden craze for them is a good thing, but people who own them forget that they once owned a diesel/petrol car and never felt the need to complain about the engine noise. Funny that..?!

[Daveyonthemove]

Also, if you look around the pump area, there are usually disposable gloves/hand shaped bags available.

All this hatred of diesel because of the smell a ridiculous argument.

The gloves are there because of the lingering whiff of diesel if it gets on you!

David

No, they are for EVERYONE not just diesel drivers.

They are not there to prevent 'smell' as this impossible, and as far as smell is concerned, petrol is stronger because it has a lower flash point.

Flashpoint is the temperature that fuel gives off enough vapour to mix with sufficient air that would create a fire if exposed to a flame or a spark.

Give that petrol evaporates off at (from memory) -21 and diesel evaporates off at +52, you are unlikely to smell diesel at a forecourt in the UK.

The real reason for the gloves is to protect your skin against all fuel to prevent dermatitus (sp?) and petrol is just as likely to cause that unpleasant skin complaint as diesel is.

So if you really can't find any good reason to hate diesel, except for the smell, then at least research why or when you can smell the stuff.

[r04drunner1]

Ahem. I've had two diesels in my time.

One was a BMW 530D back in 2004. The other was a Jaguar 2.7D, which I had until last Summer. Neither were exactly bargain basement models. I got them because they were pretty much state of the art diesel engines at the time of manufacture. The sound was quite OK while driving along and/or stationary with the windows up. Idling with the windows down or standing beside the car while the engine was running... that was a whole different story. And, yes, I did complain at the time. I decided not to get another diesel! Hence the Prius.

As for diesel not being as smelly as petrol, you only have to go into a filling station with a functioning nose and you'll quickly discern the difference. Diesel gives a horrible whiff, petrol is OK. YMMV.

Each engine system has its advantages and disadvantages. The tangible advantages of turbo charged diesel over normally aspirated hybrid petrol/electric are:

(1) more torque, especially at speed

(2) it's currently available in a much wider range of cars (that may change soon!)

(3) you can have a manual gearbox if you want

... umm, err

R04drunner1

[dwilson]

Also, if you look around the pump area, there are usually disposable gloves/hand shaped bags available.

All this hatred of diesel because of the smell a ridiculous argument.

The gloves are there because of the lingering whiff of diesel if it gets on you!

David

No, they are for EVERYONE not just diesel drivers.

They are not there to prevent 'smell' as this impossible, and as far as smell is concerned, petrol is stronger because it has a lower flash point.

Flashpoint is the temperature that fuel gives off enough vapour to mix with sufficient air that would create a fire if exposed to a flame or a spark.

Give that petrol evaporates off at (from memory) -21 and diesel evaporates off at +52, you are unlikely to smell diesel at a forecourt in the UK.

The real reason for the gloves is to protect your skin against all fuel to prevent dermatitus (sp?) and petrol is just as likely to cause that unpleasant skin complaint as diesel is.

So if you really can't find any good reason to hate diesel, except for the smell, then at least research why or when you can smell the stuff.

I know all of that actually....

But I have only ever needed to wear gloves when filling up with petrol.

David

[Daveyonthemove]

My point was simply, that before the 'Silent' Hybrids came along, our options were a 'noisey' diesel engine, or a 'not so' noisey petrol engine.

But the noise was rarely a deciding factor, simply because most people believe that diesel engines are for people who want economy, and petrol engines are for people who want speed. Those people normally bought their car of choice with those two points in mind, and obviously running costs/insurance/tax/size of car etc were other things on the list to consider.

Those people who have owned decent diesel engines (like the BMW and Jaguar listed above) know that they can deliver speed and economy, so they have been the 'best of both worlds'.

But peoples taste's change, and the need for a fast car is replaced with the need for economic cars, and then maybe the need for refinement.

Whilst i can understand that the diesel engine is not audible pleasure to most people, i still don't think that MOST people would use it as an excuse to buy a hybrid, i think it is more to do with the savings.

I haven't ruled out the option of a hybrid, but as i have said elsewhere on this forum, i would prefer it to be a diesel hybrid, simply because i prefer the feel of a diesel engine over a petrol engine, and i think it would have a better range to offer where MPG is concerned. The noise simply wouldn't bother me.

[dwilson]

Ahem. I've had two diesels in my time.

One was a BMW 530D back in 2004. The other was a Jaguar 2.7D, which I had until last Summer. Neither were exactly bargain basement models. I got them because they were pretty much state of the art diesel engines at the time of manufacture. The sound was quite OK while driving along and/or stationary with the windows up. Idling with the windows down or standing beside the car while the engine was running... that was a whole different story. And, yes, I did complain at the time. I decided not to get another diesel! Hence the Prius.

As for diesel not being as smelly as petrol, you only have to go into a filling station with a functioning nose and you'll quickly discern the difference. Diesel gives a horrible whiff, petrol is OK. YMMV.

Each engine system has its advantages and disadvantages. The tangible advantages of turbo charged diesel over normally aspirated hybrid petrol/electric are:

(1) more torque, especially at speed

(2) it's currently available in a much wider range of cars (that may change soon!)

(3) you can have a manual gearbox if you want

... umm, err

R04drunner1

Agreed. I too have had 3 Toyota diesels over the years - but like petrol better

David

[Daveyonthemove]

Also, if you look around the pump area, there are usually disposable gloves/hand shaped bags available.

All this hatred of diesel because of the smell a ridiculous argument.

The gloves are there because of the lingering whiff of diesel if it gets on you!

David

No, they are for EVERYONE not just diesel drivers.

They are not there to prevent 'smell' as this impossible, and as far as smell is concerned, petrol is stronger because it has a lower flash point.

Flashpoint is the temperature that fuel gives off enough vapour to mix with sufficient air that would create a fire if exposed to a flame or a spark.

Give that petrol evaporates off at (from memory) -21 and diesel evaporates off at +52, you are unlikely to smell diesel at a forecourt in the UK.

The real reason for the gloves is to protect your skin against all fuel to prevent dermatitus (sp?) and petrol is just as likely to cause that unpleasant skin complaint as diesel is.

So if you really can't find any good reason to hate diesel, except for the smell, then at least research why or when you can smell the stuff.

I know all of that actually....

But I have only ever needed to wear gloves when filling up with petrol.

David

I assume that is a typo, or you dislike the smell of petrol on your hands, but don't mind the smell of diesel? (which makes your post worthless)

[r04drunner1]

Whilst i can understand that the diesel engine is not audible pleasure to most people, i still don't think that MOST people would use it as an excuse to buy a hybrid, i think it is more to do with the savings.

Fair point. The economics certainly were the most compelling reason for me. The savings I am making compared to my last car are as good as having a £7k per annum raise ...

However I would note in passing that the noise from the diesel definitely made me decide to buy a petrol car the next time. The internal noise on the S-Type diesel was perfectly acceptable. It was quiet and refined at most speeds. Although it lacked the invigorating roar I got from my previous Jaguar, a 3 litre X-Type. But the external noise was not something I was comfortable with. Maybe not a lot of people worry about that, but I did.

[Daveyonthemove]

I don't worry about how my car sounds to other people. If i'm in it and the noise doesn't bother me, there is no problem

Was the V6 roar something you missed with the diesel engine, despite the performance it had?

I think most people like the noise of a big engine, but despise the fuel bills, and like you say, a £7k increase in available funds is not something most people would turn down.

From what i can gather, the V6 roar is most appealing, but running costs aren't?

The diesel economy is rewarding, but the noise isn't?

The Hybrid economy and lack of diesel clatter makes up for the missing roar of a V6?

Am i close?

[acetip]

when i got my first diesel car back in 1985 if a garage had a diesel pump it was often for commercial vehicle snd away from the rest of the fuel pumps.then diesel did not have anti frothing additive as now in it then and you had to very carefull when filling up that it did not overflow.the floor area would often puddled with diesel that had been spilt.

very easy to trapse into your car.there were no gloves and the fuel gun was ALWAYS wet with diesel.when you pulled up in your car the garage staff would warn you that you were on a diesel pump by often a tannoy.these days there are gloves provided but not realy needed.

never notice much smell from either fuels myself,but that maybe just me with failng senses at my advanced years.as for diesel engine noise, toyota and lexus are noiser than than my first diesel,a jetta 1.6 TD..

while my wifes shopping in tesco i stand in the carpark watching cars arriving and leaving,

and keeping an eye on the auris,having a !Removed!,i am surprised how many cars are diesel these day,some are very noisey indeed,amongst the quieter ones are some citrons and ford tdci.

but even some of them i think have been neglected.and rattle above the call of duty.

[dwilson]

Also, if you look around the pump area, there are usually disposable gloves/hand shaped bags available.

All this hatred of diesel because of the smell a ridiculous argument.

The gloves are there because of the lingering whiff of diesel if it gets on you!

David

No, they are for EVERYONE not just diesel drivers.

They are not there to prevent 'smell' as this impossible, and as far as smell is concerned, petrol is stronger because it has a lower flash point.

Flashpoint is the temperature that fuel gives off enough vapour to mix with sufficient air that would create a fire if exposed to a flame or a spark.

Give that petrol evaporates off at (from memory) -21 and diesel evaporates off at +52, you are unlikely to smell diesel at a forecourt in the UK.

The real reason for the gloves is to protect your skin against all fuel to prevent dermatitus (sp?) and petrol is just as likely to cause that unpleasant skin complaint as diesel is.

So if you really can't find any good reason to hate diesel, except for the smell, then at least research why or when you can smell the stuff.

I know all of that actually....

But I have only ever needed to wear gloves when filling up with petrol.

David

I assume that is a typo, or you dislike the smell of petrol on your hands, but don't mind the smell of diesel? (which makes your post worthless)

Typo - should be:

I know all of that actually....

But I have only ever needed to wear gloves when filling up with diesel.

David

[Cyker]

Could always use V-Power or Biodiesel; They have virtually no smell :D

These are all personal opinions tho'... heck, I think petrol has a nice smell, still don't know what diesel smells like (I still assert that there is no way you can smell diesel over petrol in a fuel station unless you have been putting the fuel hose up your nose! ), and I like the diesel clatter my car makes because I find it strangely soothing and it reminds me of articulated lorries, which are ossom. So there. :P

[Glyyde]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kEDSkg8VAA&feature=related

Interesting take on Prius by Topgear. Gen 2.

Check out all the comments....

[Seamaster73]

The best use to which I've ever seen diseasel put: