Here We Go Again

[rambler]

Hi all

Just been on holiday in Yorkshire,(walking the three peaks)

Was driving home down the A1 yesterday when my engine lost 3/4 power and Engine light came on,i was very very lucky as managed to ' roll ' into a large layby.

Got the AA out ,but they could'nt diagnose the fault,as the technicians computer could'nt talk to my Rav4 ! ! !

Anyway we locked up the vehicle and let it rest.

After a while we started it up again,it was all ok,no light on,engine revved ok,so i drove my last 150 miles home.

But this morning......after a few attempts it started (badly),but now revs easily,but Engine light has returned,so its now on front garden with me paranoid about driving it.

Still annoys me that the AA's equipment cannot read my vehicles computer...so ive no idea whats wrong.

The Rav4 has for a while now ' held back a little ' when i floor it to overtake,then after a second or so it goes ok,could this be Scv valves or that Egr valve ?

The earliest i can get a code read will be at a local garage on monday (tomorrow) (seeing as the AA cant do it)

[Mistermena]

It could be the EGR valve mate. When was it last cleaned? Have to checked the fuel and air filter? But I'd start with the EGR. Try and get hold of some Millers or some BG244 and bang it in your tank.

[rambler]

Hi mistermena

Have never had this EGR valve thingy cleaned ?

but

Just had another visit from AA ,Rav4 started (just),revved it well,then the Engine light came on....yesssssss.

He tried his own personal diagnostic machine & his AA one,still would'nt talk to my Rav4....very frustrating.

But he pulled out my oil dipstick (whilst engine was running & normal temp)) and showed me that my oil level was on minimum ! !

Now, i check my oil almost weekly,its always been on the full mark,it simply has never used any.

I think i am right ,you should always check oil with a cold engine ?....never known any different.

AND TO CHECK OIL WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING,he offered me a oil top up.....i declined.

[Mistermena]

The engine oil should be checked when the engine has been warmed up. When it has reached this turn off the engine for at least 5 mins(This allows the oil to run back to the sump) and should be done on a level road. Oil is never checked whilst the engine is running as it'll give a false reading. What grade of oil have you been using for the car? 5w-30? 0w-40?

Strange how the AA cant get a reading. My OBE 2 scans mine without any probs.

Try and get yourself one off eBay. You can pick them up for under £15

[rambler]

The engine oil should be checked when the engine has been warmed up. When it has reached this turn off the engine for at least 5 mins(This allows the oil to run back to the sump) and should be done on a level road. Oil is never checked whilst the engine is running as it'll give a false reading. What grade of oil have you been using for the car? 5w-30? 0w-40?

Strange how the AA cant get a reading. My OBE 2 scans mine without any probs.

Try and get yourself one off Ebay. You can pick them up for under £15

Ive actually never topped up the oil on my Rav4,never needed to,only ever been done at servicing,i have never touched anything for maintenance in 6 years ( never needed to apart from screen wash)

Its serviced by the book by toyota.

Its been a superb vehicle,apart from DMF replacement.I may try and limp to work in the morning,IF i break down again,i will be in the hands of the ' wonderfull ' AA once more

Incidently ,do you by anychance know....where the EGR valve is on my Rav4 please ?

[Mistermena]

The engine oil should be checked when the engine has been warmed up. When it has reached this turn off the engine for at least 5 mins(This allows the oil to run back to the sump) and should be done on a level road. Oil is never checked whilst the engine is running as it'll give a false reading. What grade of oil have you been using for the car? 5w-30? 0w-40?

Strange how the AA cant get a reading. My OBE 2 scans mine without any probs.

Try and get yourself one off Ebay. You can pick them up for under £15

Ive actually never topped up the oil on my Rav4,never needed to,only ever been done at servicing,i have never touched anything for maintenance in 6 years ( never needed to apart from screen wash)

Its serviced by the book by toyota.

Its been a superb vehicle,apart from DMF replacement.I may try and limp to work in the morning,IF i break down again,i will be in the hands of the ' wonderfull ' AA once more

Incidently ,do you by anychance know....where the EGR valve is on my Rav4 please ?

If you take a search for EGR on the Rav forum you'll find one. Rick D4D did a great one.

[blitzchaser]

It could be the EGR valve mate. When was it last cleaned? Have to checked the fuel and air filter? But I'd start with the EGR. Try and get hold of some Millers or some BG244 and bang it in your tank.

give it the bg244 treatment... you could have a dirty injector like i had in a d4d hiace engine light would come on and go into limp mode.. cost me big money to get them taken out and tested and cleaned 800euro if i knew of bg244 it would have saved me a lot of money.. d4d's do not like dirty diesel keep them clean every 10k with bg244.........

[rambler]

OK.........

Have just started Rav4 up again ( Engine light came on after about a minute),ran until normal temp,it all revs ok,doesnt hold back at all,even red lined it !......then let it calm down

then turned it off.

will give it a few mins (whilst typing this lot out) then re check oil (on level ground...my drive).

Question though.......why does my engine rev freely at standstill in neutral,but when any gears are selected and you are moving along a road at speed, it seems to ' hold back ' when flooring it ,surely you should get the same symptoms either way as long as engine is running ?

The only difference is .....your moving,or wanting to move faster

OK....its been at least 10 mins typing this out,so re checked oil....halfway between the two marks.(actually , no difference to the cold reading really).

[jedi134]

I`d stay well clear from that AA man, checking the oil while the engine is running???????? Of course it will be on minimum with engine running ...... Even a £15 OBD cable from eBay will hook up to the engine ECU, This AA guy sounds like he has`nt a clue.

As for your problem I could not possibly comment, A scan of the ECU would help point you in the right direction.

EGR sounds viable, SVC`s another, Something turbo related also.

[rambler]

I`d stay well clear from that AA man, checking the oil while the engine is running???????? Of course it will be on minimum with engine running ...... Even a £15 OBD cable from ebay will hook up to the engine ECU, This AA guy sounds like he has`nt a clue.

As for your problem I could not possibly comment, A scan of the ECU would help point you in the right direction.

EGR sounds viable, SVC`s another, Something turbo related also.

hI Jedi

Yep.....i was most concerned when he pulled out the dipstick,and then offered me more oil......could have overfilled my sump ( i gather that would have been BAD )

I also asked him to show me where the EGR valve was,what it looked like.....he pointed out several items which he thought it may be.......,later i looked on ' google images ' and found what i was looking for ,so i could find it for myself.,i did find it....just above the turbo i believe.

None of the items he showed me,....google images is great.

I shall try and start the rav in the morning as i go to work,go through the same again,if same problems,get AA out and get it to colchester toyota ,may be expensive,but at least it will get sorted ( cheaper than new car)....hopefully,and i get 30% loyalty disc on parts & labour :D

Ive also been a tad ill since yesterday midday,so had to deal with sickness as well as drive 250 miles home from Yorkshire

[local hero]

OK.........

Have just started Rav4 up again ( Engine light came on after about a minute),ran until normal temp,it all revs ok,doesnt hold back at all,even red lined it !......then let it calm down

then turned it off.

will give it a few mins (whilst typing this lot out) then re check oil (on level ground...my drive).

Question though.......why does my engine rev freely at standstill in neutral,but when any gears are selected and you are moving along a road at speed, it seems to ' hold back ' when flooring it ,surely you should get the same symptoms either way as long as engine is running ?

The only difference is .....your moving,or wanting to move faster

OK....its been at least 10 mins typing this out,so re checked oil....halfway between the two marks.(actually , no difference to the cold reading really).

Careful here Rambs, your Rav is a 2001, i am pretty sure it does not have an OBD port like the later 4.2s + 4.3 so you will not be able to use an eBay bought reader, this will be why your AA man cannot do it your symptoms sound more like the SC valves to me, But as always I stand to be corrected, there are actually 2 videos on youtube 1 showing cleaning the EGR valve and the other showing replacing the SC valves on a 4.2, I only discovered them yesterday and have not seen them so no idea how good they are, but if you are interested, type toyota rav 4 egr valve in the youtube search box, sorry not got time to do a link at the moment Stew

[anchorman]

Quite right stew, not the EGR on this 4.2 and an OBD reader is no good. It sounds like SC valves to me too but you should change the fuel filter first. It is quite cheap to do and often solves a multitude of snags.

Afraid its the valves after that which are available from Kingo.

[rambler]

OK.........

Have just started Rav4 up again ( Engine light came on after about a minute),ran until normal temp,it all revs ok,doesnt hold back at all,even red lined it !......then let it calm down

then turned it off.

will give it a few mins (whilst typing this lot out) then re check oil (on level ground...my drive).

Question though.......why does my engine rev freely at standstill in neutral,but when any gears are selected and you are moving along a road at speed, it seems to ' hold back ' when flooring it ,surely you should get the same symptoms either way as long as engine is running ?

The only difference is .....your moving,or wanting to move faster

OK....its been at least 10 mins typing this out,so re checked oil....halfway between the two marks.(actually , no difference to the cold reading really).

Careful here Rambs, your Rav is a 2001, i am pretty sure it does not have an OBD port like the later 4.2s + 4.3 so you will not be able to use an eBay bought reader, this will be why your AA man cannot do it your symptoms sound more like the SC valves to me, But as always I stand to be corrected, there are actually 2 videos on youtube 1 showing cleaning the EGR valve and the other showing replacing the SC valves on a 4.2, I only discovered them yesterday and have not seen them so no idea how good they are, but if you are interested, type toyota rav 4 egr valve in the youtube search box, sorry not got time to do a link at the moment Stew

Hi L H

Many thanks for the info

BTW.....ive just checked my Rav4 reg cert,oooops, its a 2002..after all this time (changed my profile now as a tad embarrassing)

I dont buy anything from eBay,prefer good honest shops and personal service.Even if it does cost more.

Had a look on you tube re SCV valves,looks easy enough,but something always goes wrong with me,so with my disc i think i will trust colchester toyota ( i may regret saying that )at least the work will be guaranteed though.

At least they will def get me a code,they warn me of cost of what needs doing,last time this happened it was a VSV hose split,they repaired it.....all done for £40....i was well happy.,back then engine had lost all power,in full limp mode.

At least it does start (just) and runs & revs ,so cant be that bad....

Just have to go through it all again in the morning.

[jedi134]

Quite right stew, not the EGR on this 4.2 and an OBD reader is no good. It sounds like SC valves to me too but you should change the fuel filter first. It is quite cheap to do and often solves a multitude of snags.

Afraid its the valves after that which are available from Kingo.

Hmmmmmm dont all cars from 2000 now have OBD ports??? My 2000 golf does, but then it is petrol? were OBD ports installed later on a diesel engine?

[shcm]

Hmmmmmm dont all cars from 2000 now have OBD ports??? My 2000 golf does, but then it is petrol? were OBD ports installed later on a diesel engine?

Don't confuse OBD (the protocol - language if you like) with the physical connection.

Yes, they have a diagnostic port. All vehicles don't however have the capability to do the OBD protocol (or talk OBD if you like. EOBD in Europe to be strictly correct.).

EOBD on petrol came in on petrol in 2001. Diesel followed in 2003.

The vehicle will also talk a (or a few) proprietary protocols belonging to Toyota. Hence the port fitted to vehicles prior to 2001/2003. You need a reader that talks these protocols, hence the failure to communicate with Rambs' RAV.

E-OBD is an open standard. One reason why the readers are cheap to pick up. Other reads that do many protocols are a fair bit more expensive. I would appear the AA were trying to talk OBD. I'm surprised they didn't have a more capable reader, but when they try to take oil levels with the engine running..........well........

It all seems to make sense to me here and nothing is really amiss.

[jedi134]

Hmmmmmm dont all cars from 2000 now have OBD ports??? My 2000 golf does, but then it is petrol? were OBD ports installed later on a diesel engine?

Don't confuse OBD (the protocol - language if you like) with the physical connection.

Yes, they have a diagnostic port. All vehicles don't however have the capability to do the OBD protocol (or talk OBD if you like. EOBD in Europe to be strictly correct.).

EOBD on petrol came in on petrol in 2001. Diesel followed in 2003.

The vehicle will also talk a (or a few) proprietary protocols belonging to Toyota. Hence the port fitted to vehicles prior to 2001/2003. You need a reader that talks these protocols, hence the failure to communicate with Rambs' RAV.

E-OBD is an open standard. One reason why the readers are cheap to pick up. Other reads that do many protocols are a fair bit more expensive. I would appear the AA were trying to talk OBD. I'm surprised they didn't have a more capable reader, but when they try to take oil levels with the engine running..........well........

It all seems to make sense to me here and nothing is really amiss.

I just ordered one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELM327-OBD2-OBDII-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Interface-V1-4-/300554276320?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item45fa6e4de0

It says it reads various Protocols from various manufactures, I`ll just have to wait and see I presume.

I have Vag-com software for my VW and a cheap £15 eBay cable, and I can read every module in my VW, excellent bit of software.

But these generic ones will only read the ecu module which is a shame, will have to wait untill it arrives to see justt how well.

[shcm]

Ah, well I didn't want to complicate things!....but as you mention it..........

The so called "protocols" it is listing are just the physical methods it uses to communicate.

e.g. ISO9141 is what we used to refer to as "K-line". A fairly slow interface - open collector transistors with resistor pull up to VBAT. Logic levels ratio-metric to VBAT.

J1850 is mostly used on trucks.

The other stuff is just CAN. Different baud rates and identifier bit lengths. (CAN uses 11 or 29 bit identifiers - addresses if you like).

All this physical connections can come out to the same diag connector.

OBD is then layered on top of this. I can't see this adapter really talking anything other than OBD. It will handle different physical implementations of it. Having said that, it all depends how the adapter is put together. I've used my elm adapter to talk proprietary GM protocol, but all the protocol layer was done in the software on the PC.

It may well work with the VW stuff, with appropriate PC software. I know the VW protocol is out in the open, but I suspect it was leaked.

Anyway, this is hi-jacking Rambs' thread.

[rambler]

Morning all

Just had another AA man out again,had exactly same experiences as yesterday but oil was checked when engine cold :D and far more helpfull

Does need ' some oil ' just a small top up though,just a reccomendation.

But ( as i am feeling better today,and can leave the house),so they are relaying me & Rav4 to Mr T to have it checked at some time today.although as i am home,i am not a priority

Strange.......i turn the key,plenty of Battery turnover ,but wont fire up.

Tried this three times with approx 10 seconds between attempts,then it coughs into life on 3rd attempt.

Then after about 1 min of ticking over engine light comes on ( still revs ok ),but wont go under ' load ' so says the AA man...cant argue with that.

Still ,i am hopefull its nothing serious,just a sensor somewhere......or split hose....who knows

Its just not knowing is the bit i hate,and knowing that in future...no AA vehicle can help me with diagnostics when i break down

Even though Club toyota use their services to help us toyota rav4 D4D owners ( issume all d4d Rav4's are the same)so it has to be a dealership with the correct computers every time ( or knowing a garage with full diagnostics ) that WILL find the fault.

My Rav4 is now on 99784 miles....the big 100'000 is looming fast,can i expect more problems is the future ?????...time will tell i guess,as TBH i like my Rav4,comfy,smooth .

But ive never taken any vehicle past 100'000 yet.....gulp

[jedi134]

Ah, well I didn't want to complicate things!....but as you mention it..........

The so called "protocols" it is listing are just the physical methods it uses to communicate.

e.g. ISO9141 is what we used to refer to as "K-line". A fairly slow interface - open collector transistors with resistor pull up to VBAT. Logic levels ratio-metric to VBAT.

J1850 is mostly used on trucks.

The other stuff is just CAN. Different baud rates and identifier bit lengths. (CAN uses 11 or 29 bit identifiers - addresses if you like).

All this physical connections can come out to the same diag connector.

OBD is then layered on top of this. I can't see this adapter really talking anything other than OBD. It will handle different physical implementations of it. Having said that, it all depends how the adapter is put together. I've used my elm adapter to talk proprietary GM protocol, but all the protocol layer was done in the software on the PC.

It may well work with the VW stuff, with appropriate PC software. I know the VW protocol is out in the open, but I suspect it was leaked.

Anyway, this is hi-jacking Rambs' thread.

This company does the VAG Group stuff (http://www.ross-tech.com/) and its the bees knees, some say better that the 10k machines VW use them selves. I use it my self and its great, Its access every module in the car, You can code modules, alter parameters, activate solinoinds, fuel pumps etc, for test purposes, clear faults etc. in fact you can just about do anything with it. If only there was something like this for toyota.

With their later software you now have to buy their cable, as its the cable that activates the software, but for pre 2005 vw`s the eBay cable works find, with the old version of the software.

I believe pre 2005 it was K-line base then post 2005 everything went CAN bus.

I bought the £20 Elm adapter basically to try it out,(this is different from a VW vag com cable) and also just to clear engine managment lights should they pop up, without having to go to a dealer and being charged £40 for the pleasure.

I dont know what its like yet as its not arrived, but hopefully with the right software It may prove usefull.

Do you know of any good scan tool software that will work with this adapter shcm?

[jedi134]

Morning all

Just had another AA man out again,had exactly same experiences as yesterday but oil was checked when engine cold :D and far more helpfull

Does need ' some oil ' just a small top up though,just a reccomendation.

But ( as i am feeling better today,and can leave the house),so they are relaying me & Rav4 to Mr T to have it checked at some time today.although as i am home,i am not a priority

Strange.......i turn the key,plenty of battery turnover ,but wont fire up.

Tried this three times with approx 10 seconds between attempts,then it coughs into life on 3rd attempt.

Then after about 1 min of ticking over engine light comes on ( still revs ok ),but wont go under ' load ' so says the AA man...cant argue with that.

Still ,i am hopefull its nothing serious,just a sensor somewhere......or split hose....who knows

Its just not knowing is the bit i hate,and knowing that in future...no AA vehicle can help me with diagnostics when i break down

Even though Club toyota use their services to help us toyota rav4 D4D owners ( issume all d4d Rav4's are the same)so it has to be a dealership with the correct computers every time ( or knowing a garage with full diagnostics ) that WILL find the fault.

My Rav4 is now on 99784 miles....the big 100'000 is looming fast,can i expect more problems is the future ?????...time will tell i guess,as TBH i like my Rav4,comfy,smooth .

But ive never taken any vehicle past 100'000 yet.....gulp

Lets hope its nothing serious.

[local hero]

Morning all

Just had another AA man out again,had exactly same experiences as yesterday but oil was checked when engine cold :D and far more helpfull

Does need ' some oil ' just a small top up though,just a reccomendation.

But ( as i am feeling better today,and can leave the house),so they are relaying me & Rav4 to Mr T to have it checked at some time today.although as i am home,i am not a priority

Strange.......i turn the key,plenty of battery turnover ,but wont fire up.

Tried this three times with approx 10 seconds between attempts,then it coughs into life on 3rd attempt.

Then after about 1 min of ticking over engine light comes on ( still revs ok ),but wont go under ' load ' so says the AA man...cant argue with that.

Still ,i am hopefull its nothing serious,just a sensor somewhere......or split hose....who knows

Its just not knowing is the bit i hate,and knowing that in future...no AA vehicle can help me with diagnostics when i break down

Even though Club toyota use their services to help us toyota rav4 D4D owners ( issume all d4d Rav4's are the same)so it has to be a dealership with the correct computers every time ( or knowing a garage with full diagnostics ) that WILL find the fault.

My Rav4 is now on 99784 miles....the big 100'000 is looming fast,can i expect more problems is the future ?????...time will tell i guess,as TBH i like my Rav4,comfy,smooth .

But ive never taken any vehicle past 100'000 yet.....gulp

Lets hope its nothing serious.

Hi Rambler, The reason this is almost the first techy question i have been able to throw some light on is that prior to my current 4.3 I had a 2002 4.2 d4d, this is now owned by my brother, in its 9yrs it has had 3 problems..1 the dreaded DMF (like yours) 2 replacement Battery (like yours) and recently exactly the same symptons as yours which turned out to be the SC valves which needed replacing, He ordered them thru Kingo + got an independent to fit them, unfortunately the total cost (supply + fitting) was not far off £300 so be prepared, since doing this it has run perfectly.. On later 2003+ ravs (round foglight versions) these came with an inboard OBD port where you could plug a reader in to, yours doesn't have this facility although i believe Mr T can read them Stew

PS just as an aside, I have often wondered did your poor mum ever get her electrical problems sorted? I seem to remember she was driving around not using any electrics because she feared the car would'nt start :o

[rambler]

PS just as an aside, I have often wondered did your poor mum ever get her electrical problems sorted? I seem to remember she was driving around not using any electrics because she feared the car would'nt start

Hi stew

Unfortunalty....she is very stubborn,HATES spending money,(part of that has rubbed off on me lol),so she puts up with it

She will moan again next winter,...i get used to it

Plus she now has a farely big dent on the rear nearside wheel arch where she ' brushed ' something soft ish in a car park apparently,no paint damage..just bent panel.....looks horrible though,pushed the panel in by about 2 inches.

she cant be bothered to get it done ,would rather have her dosh in the bank....quite wise actually,if you arnt bothered about cars