Yet Another Wrong Oil Saga

[Jan&tone]

Here's one on the brighter side.

I had a 20K service done at Octagon Toyota in Bracknell a few weeks ago. The pre-printed job sheet said 0W20 oil. I was told it would take about one and half hours so settled down with a coffee and it was handed back, all clean and sparkling, after an hour. No problems at all.

Good point!

Let's remember the good service we get at our local Toyota dealer. Was at mine last week for new front discs and pads. After an hour I get my car back all lovely and fixed as well as washed and vacced. Due the 60k service middle of October so back again

GF had cause to take her car in for her 10k service and was greatly impressed. Much much better than her experience of the local Honda dealers! B)

Nice to hear of good service.... IMO it's as much the dealer as the manufacturer that makes the brand reputation...

There is no point in having a nice reliable car if the dealer experience is !Removed!....

[r04drunner1]

The dealer is Johnson's Toyota, Wallasey.

Cheers mate.

In fairness, let us know when they finally 'fess up and fix the problem.

Might not hurt to let them know

a. The official Toyota Guidance as posted by Parts King (top man!)

b. The growing number of dealerships who DO put in the correct oil, and who consequently attract more servicing custom from their customers.

[r04drunner1]

An extract from a Toyota bulletin

New Hybrid Synergy Drive vehicles, such as the Prius MK3 and Auris Hybrid are filled at the

factory with 0W-20 TGMO. 0W-20 is mandatory for use as the service oil grade.

Top man.

Is there a TSB reference that can be quoted to dealers BEFORE booking the car in for service?

Toyota GB confirmed to my Fleet Manager:

Hi [REDACTED]

With reference to the question your driver asked below. He is absolutely correct you need to use 0W20 oil, other oils cause a reduction in output and fuel economy in addition to an increase in the CO2 emissions.

R04drunner1

[hoylakegrumpy]

I collected my Prius yesterday. The Service Manager has advised me to contact named members of the service team the next time I'm in for service to ensure that I get 0-20 oil. The car was clean and tidy and the staff exceptionally courteous and explained the paperwork thoroughly. I have pointed the Service Manager to this website to see why I had complained so strongly. I've had an acknowledgement of the receipt of my email from Toyota GB but I'm still waiting for a full reply.

I'll keep you posted.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

A result

It is odd that the 'wrong' oil can make such a difference to the driveability and especially the economy of the Prius but it does. I remember being one of the first to have this issue due to the mileage I do. The cars fantastic fuel economy dropped like a stone after I'd had it serviced. I tried checking the tyres etc but just couldn't work it out.

At least we all know now - the expensive 0w20 water like oil allows the car to keep its fuel economy up in the high 60's to low 70's to the gallon with ease instead of mid to high 50's if 5w30 is used. Just got back from the Lakes with Ms Cabbie and managed to get there and back and the odd day out for less than £20 in petrol running at an average 64 mpg (displayed). Love it

[acetip]

A result

It is odd that the 'wrong' oil can make such a difference to the driveability and especially the economy of the Prius but it does. I remember being one of the first to have this issue due to the mileage I do. The cars fantastic fuel economy dropped like a stone after I'd had it serviced. I tried checking the tyres etc but just couldn't work it out.

At least we all know now - the expensive 0w20 water like oil allows the car to keep its fuel economy up in the high 60's to low 70's to the gallon with ease instead of mid to high 50's if 5w30 is used. Just got back from the Lakes with Ms Cabbie and managed to get there and back and the odd day out for less than £20 in petrol running at an average 64 mpg (displayed). Love it

Good job you didnt take a taxi,that would have been expensive,Grumpy.

[hoylakegrumpy]

Just had this from Toyota GB.

"I have investigated your query with our Technical Department and they have advised that 0W-20 oil is the recommended oil for the engine in your vehicle. However, 5W-20 and 5W-30 oil can also be used in your engine but as stated in the owner’s manual should be replaced with 0W-20 oil when available."

No mention of decrease in performance and economy with increase in CO2 emissions!

[Chris Dance]

Sounds like the Toyota Technical Dept are sitting on the fence with that statement. Why on earth did they not come out and say ONLY OW20 is the oil to be used in the Gen 3 Prius and Auris Hybrid engines. With that statement dealers can still put 5W20 or 5W30 in. The problem is still not resolved in my opinion.

[Parts-King]

It's like banging your head on a wall innit?

FFS I don't know how long this will go on for, it HAS already been clarified, 0w 20 IS the oil you put in, how technical can now get involved again and put out that info is beyond comprehension to be honest

Kingo

[Chris Dance]

Hi Parts King. Do you as a dealer have any influence on the Toyota Technical Dept? If so perhaps you could get them to make a more clear statement rather than the one hoylakegrumpy received. I think that statement should be withdrawn and the "no Mark" who put it out make a clear statement stating:

"ONLY OW20 OIL MUST BE USED".

[Grumpy Cabbie]

They say 5w30 oil CAN be used but don't say it is NOT the recommended - just it won't damage the engine. Also they don't state when what they mean by replacing it 'when available'. Does that mean you can use 5w30 to get you off the side of a motorway and then take the car round to your dealer to replace it asap or do they mean leave it there for 10k miles?

A very vague statement from Toyota techs.

Another one that baffles me is that my gf's IQ 1.0 manual MUST use 0w20 but the automatic version with the same engine, same compression etc can use 5w30!?! Clear as mud? :ffs:

[Parts-King]

Hi Parts King. Do you as a dealer have any influence on the Toyota Technical Dept?

Non whatsover I'm afraid!

Kingo

[Parts-King]

They say 5w30 oil CAN be used but don't say it is NOT the recommended - just it won't damage the engine. Also they don't state when what they mean by replacing it 'when available'. Does that mean you can use 5w30 to get you off the side of a motorway and then take the car round to your dealer to replace it asap or do they mean leave it there for 10k miles?

I think the confusion came about when 0w 20 was not readily available, you could use 5w 30 (and still can) It wont do the engine any harm, BUT the best grade for MPG and emissions is 0w 20, if you did have to put 5w 30 in (maybe because 0w 20 is not available) then you should use 0w 20 as soon as it was available, only because of the emissions/ MPG issue, it is perfectly safe, the car wont seize up or anything silly like that

As far as I'm concerned, the technical department are giving two different messages and trying to satisfy retail/fleet customers, it has already been confirmed, by letter to the dealer network that 0w 20 is THE service fill oil to use

Kingo

[Grumpy Cabbie]

So perhaps the solution is to inform VOSA or DVLA about the situation and try and get the 89g/km banding removed by basing the fuel economy on 5w30 oil. This will ***** lots of people and then maybe we can sue Toyota for back road tax.

Toyota can't have their cake and eat it. Either the car gets amazing mpg's on 0w20 and the resultant tax benefits that go with this or we base it on the 5w30 oil if this is the stuff a significant number of garages use.

I'm giving Toyota a couple more chances on this (based on comments on this forum - my dealers use the correct oil) and then having a word with a few press contacts . I still keep getting hounded by one journo who first contacted me 18 months ago during all the Toyota recall nonsense. Perhaps next time he gets in touch I'll draw his attention to this sorry saga?

Toyota - sort it out!!!

[Jan&tone]

I'm now wondering if there is more than one person at Toyota involved in this, their fleet geezer and their retail geezer perhaps? the fleet bloke insists on using 5w-30 'cos it's cheaper and their retail one uses 0w-20 'cos the private driver can afford it.... One day they will meet in the pub over the road, share a Saki and a Geisha and all will be harmony at Mr Toyoda's shop once more

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Or they scrape their car through the European tests using a super expensive 0w20 oil and then bung in the cheap oil when they can get away with it (some of the time). It'll bite them on the **** though when customers start to wonder why their super economical car no longer gets those fabulous mpg's. You hear people often comment that the Prius doesn't get close to the manufacturers figures - and now we know why - they've got 5w30 in and are running on under inflated non lrr tyres.

I'm feeling some emails and phone calls coming on. (esp now I'm cheesed that the Prius PHEV is overpriced out of my reach )

[Jan&tone]

Or they scrape their car through the European tests using a super expensive 0w20 oil and then bung in the cheap oil when they can get away with it (some of the time). It'll bite them on the **** though when customers start to wonder why their super economical car no longer gets those fabulous mpg's. You hear people often comment that the Prius doesn't get close to the manufacturers figures - and now we know why - they've got 5w30 in and are running on under inflated non lrr tyres.

I'm feeling some emails and phone calls coming on. (esp now I'm cheesed that the Prius PHEV is overpriced out of my reach )

Grumpy mate, I know why some people complain about the 'unnatainable' fuel consumption figures.... I went to Nottingham over the weekend and the number of gen3 Prius that overtook me on the A1.... I was doing my usual indicated 67 on cruise control - 3 or 4 Prius overtook me at various points on the way there and on the way back - all well over the speed limit - no doubt those drivers will be complaining they only get 50-55mpg - Toyota claims are sh(t brigade... Drive them properly and the figures will come!

[Calymene]

I took my Gen 3 Prius into the local main dealer, Marsh of Exeter, this morning for its first service. When I called the reception desk to book the car in I specifically asked them to use 0w20 oil, more in hope than expectation.

I arrived at the garage at 8:30 and handed over the key fob. The receptionist said that they would do the car first thing, and would I like a free bus ticket into the centre of Exeter so I could do some shopping rather than hang around the rather uninspiring industrial estate?

About 10:15 my mobile phone rang and they told me that the car was ready. As soon as I got back to the garage I found the car waiting, having been washed by them, and when I checked the invoice (a very reasonable £150), I found that the oil used was indeed 0w20.

I am a great believer in fairness. This forum is quick to complain about the dealers who get it wrong, but in this case I have nothing but praise for Marsh Toyota. They now have a new and loyal customer.

[Red Yaris 54]

I took my Gen 3 Prius into the local main dealer, Marsh of Exeter, this morning for its first service. When I called the reception desk to book the car in I specifically asked them to use 0w20 oil, more in hope than expectation.

I arrived at the garage at 8:30 and handed over the key fob. The receptionist said that they would do the car first thing, and would I like a free bus ticket into the centre of Exeter so I could do some shopping rather than hang around the rather uninspiring industrial estate?

About 10:15 my mobile phone rang and they told me that the car was ready. As soon as I got back to the garage I found the car waiting, having been washed by them, and when I checked the invoice (a very reasonable £150), I found that the oil used was indeed 0w20.

I am a great believer in fairness. This forum is quick to complain about the dealers who get it wrong, but in this case I have nothing but praise for Marsh Toyota. They now have a new and loyal customer.

Nice to hear of good service

I do feel that it is the dealers as much as the manufacturers that enhance the reputation of the brand.

There is not much point in having a quality car if certain dealerships let the side down

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I do feel that it is the dealers as much as the manufacturers that enhance the reputation of the brand.

There is not much point in having a quality car if certain dealerships let the side down

I congratulate the dealers who do things correctly - and it appears 90% of them do. It's the bad boys who are letting the side down, not helped by the vague and conflicting information coming out from Toyota UK.

5w30 won't damage the car but it knackers your economy. Same as remould tyres won't damage a Ferrari but would affect its handling - the very reason you'd buy the car in the first place.

The hybrid owners who have a good dealer using the correct oil don't know what the fuss is about. But it is a Royal pain when your car runs like ****, struggles to get mid 50's mpg and your dealer and Toyota UK issue conflicting information - still, after 24 months.

[Chris Dance]

Toyota Tech Department are the ones they need sorting out. From what has been said on here they they seem to make up the rules to suit a situation as it arises. It is good there are dealers who do comply with using OW20. Some dealers who want to use 5W30 have a get out after the latest Tech Dept statement.Who can bring some sense to the oil saga and take to task the Toyota Tech dept so there is no confusion? You would think the Toyota Techs would realise they are not doing any favours to the reputation of Toyota with their latest response to the oil to be used.

[cbcdesign]

Or they scrape their car through the European tests using a super expensive 0w20 oil and then bung in the cheap oil when they can get away with it (some of the time). It'll bite them on the **** though when customers start to wonder why their super economical car no longer gets those fabulous mpg's. You hear people often comment that the Prius doesn't get close to the manufacturers figures - and now we know why - they've got 5w30 in and are running on under inflated non lrr tyres.

I'm feeling some emails and phone calls coming on. (esp now I'm cheesed that the Prius PHEV is overpriced out of my reach )

Grumpy mate, I know why some people complain about the 'unnatainable' fuel consumption figures.... I went to Nottingham over the weekend and the number of gen3 Prius that overtook me on the A1.... I was doing my usual indicated 67 on cruise control - 3 or 4 Prius overtook me at various points on the way there and on the way back - all well over the speed limit - no doubt those drivers will be complaining they only get 50-55mpg - Toyota claims are sh(t brigade... Drive them properly and the figures will come!

Properly! What is "proper" for you wanting to get more economy out of your car is all well and good for you but some of us don't want to drive at 67. We are quite happy doing what many other people do (hence the recent decision to up the speed limit to 80 next year) and cruise along at 75ish thank you.

The Prius is not just about economy otherwise it wouldn't have a power mode would it?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Or they scrape their car through the European tests using a super expensive 0w20 oil and then bung in the cheap oil when they can get away with it (some of the time). It'll bite them on the **** though when customers start to wonder why their super economical car no longer gets those fabulous mpg's. You hear people often comment that the Prius doesn't get close to the manufacturers figures - and now we know why - they've got 5w30 in and are running on under inflated non lrr tyres.

I'm feeling some emails and phone calls coming on. (esp now I'm cheesed that the Prius PHEV is overpriced out of my reach )

Grumpy mate, I know why some people complain about the 'unnatainable' fuel consumption figures.... I went to Nottingham over the weekend and the number of gen3 Prius that overtook me on the A1.... I was doing my usual indicated 67 on cruise control - 3 or 4 Prius overtook me at various points on the way there and on the way back - all well over the speed limit - no doubt those drivers will be complaining they only get 50-55mpg - Toyota claims are sh(t brigade... Drive them properly and the figures will come!

Properly! What is "proper" for you wanting to get more economy out of your car is all well and good for you but some of us don't want to drive at 67. We are quite happy doing what many other people do (hence the recent decision to up the speed limit to 80 next year) and cruise along at 75ish thank you.

The Prius is not just about economy otherwise it wouldn't have a power mode would it?

And a few weeks ago I went to London and back and erm let's just say I didn't hang around and still got 54 mpg. With the 'wrong' oil I would stuggle to get 54 mpg driving Miss Daisy, so would probably have got mid 40's. It's not the be all and end all but if I wanted to get 45 mpg I'd have got an Avensis diesel and saved myself a few grand on the purchase price.

Round and round and round we go.

[Jan&tone]

Or they scrape their car through the European tests using a super expensive 0w20 oil and then bung in the cheap oil when they can get away with it (some of the time). It'll bite them on the **** though when customers start to wonder why their super economical car no longer gets those fabulous mpg's. You hear people often comment that the Prius doesn't get close to the manufacturers figures - and now we know why - they've got 5w30 in and are running on under inflated non lrr tyres.

I'm feeling some emails and phone calls coming on. (esp now I'm cheesed that the Prius PHEV is overpriced out of my reach )

Grumpy mate, I know why some people complain about the 'unnatainable' fuel consumption figures.... I went to Nottingham over the weekend and the number of gen3 Prius that overtook me on the A1.... I was doing my usual indicated 67 on cruise control - 3 or 4 Prius overtook me at various points on the way there and on the way back - all well over the speed limit - no doubt those drivers will be complaining they only get 50-55mpg - Toyota claims are sh(t brigade... Drive them properly and the figures will come!

Properly! What is "proper" for you wanting to get more economy out of your car is all well and good for you but some of us don't want to drive at 67. We are quite happy doing what many other people do (hence the recent decision to up the speed limit to 80 next year) and cruise along at 75ish thank you.

The Prius is not just about economy otherwise it wouldn't have a power mode would it?

No, and I use the power mode occasionally!

However two points...

First the speed limit is 70. Not 71 or 76, 70, seventy, you are perfectly at liberty to exceed that limit if you wish, it's your licence and one day you will find an enterprising young bobby out to make a name for himself. Trust me, it will happen!

Second, the speed limit is NOT going to be increased to 80. The PROPOSAL is to TRIAL an increased limit on certain motorways where a variable limit is already in place. IMO this is simply a cynical ploy by the government to extract more petrol tax from us motorists, it is a well known fact that the faster you drive the more fuel you use, if you, and others, wish to pay more tax that is your perogative, personally one of the reasons I bought a Prius was to pay as little road and petrol tax as possible. I'm not going to negate that by burning more fuel than necessary.

[Chris Dance]

Oh Dear!!!! Seems the problem has drifted off into speed arguments over limits etc.

Nobody seems to have the answer to why Toyota Techs are not clearly stating ONLY OW20 oil should be used and solving for ever the problem on the use of oils. Toyota Techs need an authority to make them solve the problem once and for all. I cannot see that going on about speed limits etc will solve anything.