Just Another Reason Why I Saty Out Of Dealerships.

[jedi134]

Taken from the wheels in motion site.

A high end Mercedes was booked with me today with some really odd handling issues. It had some work done at the dealers but soon after the owner complained of serious handling issues, they measured the geometry and seemingly corrected it. Nevertheless the poor handling continued.

The description was.....

1: Random bolting to either side

2: Scary cornering

3: Steering position "changing"

The car was returned to the main dealer with the owner insisting their work was rechecked and if found to be fine then to continue looking for the cause, the car was returned with no problems found.

I measured the chassis and was really concerned with the NSR toe position at -42', this was despite the toe adjuster was already maxed out? The logical thing to do now is return the adjuster back to it's OEM position so i could establish the full amount of adjustment required, this i did and then held a figure of -2 degrees 48'.

The car had not been in an accident, so what's wrong? Triangulation says the problem is longitudinal so i examined the pick up points that control the toe and found this

This is the rear toe control arm where it connects to the hub, it would appear the locking bolt was left off during the previous work and the arm was allowed to float and as it did in and out the toe on the NSR changed.

The toe arm has no redundancy's so had the bolt detached it would have been barrier time.

[Daveyonthemove]

Thats a completely different brand with a different dealership.

Whilst i agree that dealers have lost their reputation recently, you can't judge a Toyota dealership based on a Mercedes ***** up!

[Mistermena]

An informative post by Jedi! But I have to agree with Davey that you can't judge Toyota by another brands :censor: up! I've had Merc's in the past ( E and S class) and in my experiance they're not a patch on what I've seen from the Toyota dealers... But again, others might have a different view on this point.

[Big Kev]

Thanks for this post Jedi....it will come in very handy.

If anybody ever accuses me of "going off topic", I will have asked Davrav to remind me of how to "LINK" this as my reply.

Having had a Merc. and a Toyota, and could find fault with both, but mainly positive points, I shall sign off.....

Big Kev

[Parts-King]

Whilst there is no doubt there are bad dealers, there are equally as many bad "Fred in the shed" garages. The amount of problems we have to put right through incorrect diagnosis or incompetence would not be believed.

Anybody who works on your car should be licenced, that'll sort out the cowboys ;)

Kingo

[Big Kev]

Whilst there is no doubt there are bad dealers, there are equally as many bad "Fred in the shed" garages. The amount of problems we have to put right through incorrect diagnosis or incompetence would not be believed.

Anybody who works on your car should be licenced, that'll sort out the cowboys ;)

Kingo

Irish cowboy has opened a 24hr repair workshop next to us....Aw Day Murphy we call him (ye need to be 50++++)

Big Kev

[acetip]

Whilst there is no doubt there are bad dealers, there are equally as many bad "Fred in the shed" garages. The amount of problems we have to put right through incorrect diagnosis or incompetence would not be believed.

Anybody who works on your car should be licenced, that'll sort out the cowboys ;)

Kingo

there was a tv program where a undercover reporter posed as a new employed mechanic (technician) the first car he had to work on had a slipping clutch.the boss told him to do nothing at all to the car.the owner a women was told that they had fitted a new clutch,and it would slip at first till it bedded in.yes she was charged for this phantom work before they released the car to her.another job was tracking a car that had hit a kirb.

once again he was told to do nothing to the car.anyway the reporter had a camera fitted to himself and the results were given to the trading standards people who had loads of complaints about the garage.i dont now the outcome but not doubt the garage was closed down.

many years ago whilst working a my family garage a chap told me he was having trouble with his screen washer.another garage had checked it out and said they had fixed it,but it still did not work.garage was many miles away so he could not wait to take it back.when i checked it out,the screen wash botle was mounted under the wing,well it should have been.but it was not there,the mounting brackets had rusted away and the bottle had fell off.so i fabricated a new mounting out of alloy strips,as local dealer was out of stock.

[jedi134]

Well heres one for you......Lexus the posh part of Toyota.

A long term Lexus LS400 owner noticed a deterioration of the cars handling, namely the car involuntary darting off one way or another and violent tramlining.

The owner asked a Lexus main dealer to investigate the problem but no faults were found mechanically, so a Geometry was suggested and performed... The problem remained.

As the cars condition continued to deteriorate the owner took it to another Lexus dealership who after two days examining the car found no faults and again suggested and carried out a Geometry..... The problem remained.

The owner contacted wim and explained both the problem and the 200 mile drive to us in order for us to inspect the car, he was obviously keen to know if we are able to diagnose his complaint. To me the Lexus LS400 is not a problem chassis so i felt confident we could diagnose his complaint.

Today MrX drove the 200 miles to us and in view of his complaint we focused on the area within the cars construction that would allow the front wheels to tram-line, this being the front tie arms/ rods.

The front tie rods are a perpendicular connecting rod between the front sub-frame and the lower wishbone, the rods duty is to control backward/ forward movement of the wheels during bump/ rebound.

The the horror part

In order to examine the tie rod bushing condition the cars under tray needs to be removed, which we did and we found this....

Hidden under this....

That bolts to this.....

This owners complaint was missed by two dealers and two geometry calibrators simply because they couldn't be bothered to remove the under tray, we nailed the criminal in 15min.

Customer was delighted but i really dispare......

[Cyker]

The trick is just finding a good garage; Don't assume anything!

This is also why rating the garages you visit on the Reviews link at the top is a good idea ;)

I must admit I only use my dealer for routine work; Servicing, MOT and such.

There are very few dealers who have a good reputation for anything beyond this.

I remember someone here reckoned it was because they mostly get to work on new cars so their mechs don't get the experience of the problems that you find on clap traps

[CharlieFarlie]

I had My Rav into Toyota Dunfirmline last week for a VSR They washed My perfectly clean car with a BRUSH !! the recently removed swirls (You guys saw the pictures) were replaced with fresh ones !!!! One very unhappy customer !!

The purpose of the visit really was to have the Genuine Toyota Towbar checked. Its the detachable type and was never ever used.

They said.

Mechanism is faulty The detachable section if faulty and cannot be removed.

Advised. Cutting it off (£102 inc VAT) This is for one hours labour and replacing with new part (£227)

I took the car home and removed it in 5 mins max...............

I had to have the VSR done as the previous owner was going to foot the bill ....

So My visit to the dealers has cost Me at least 6 hours to re polish the car and COULD have cost £329 if I was as daft as They had hoped.

Would I recommend the Dealer ?? Will I ever go there for service ??? Errrrr NO !!!

[jedi134]

Absolute incompetence and lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scenario, the owner had bad inside front tyre wear so he had the dealer correct the Geometry....... After a thousand miles or so the tyres become violently worn so he had them replace the tyres and calibrate the car again...

Seven thousand miles later he had this..

Horrified the owner changed the tyres again and asked the for the calibration to be tested.... For some reason the front Toe was toed out 9mm and the dealer insisted he must have hit something. My argument here is that each front wheel had an even share of the Toe so i dispute the "hit something logic".

What was also amazing is according to them a main reason for the wear was under inflation. Additionally they set the calibration again and again they set it wrong......

[jedi134]

:crybaby:

The car was second hand bought from a main Dealer.... the model was new to the owner but he felt something was wrong with the handling, several times the car was returned to the Dealer for inspection each time the report said there is nothing wrong with the car, the owner insisted for a independent inspection which was granted, the findings all born from a test drive suggested the cars Geometry was tested due to the cars 'loose' feeling and over-steer.... unfortunately the Dealer ignored these suggestions.

Soon after on the 'Motorway' a distressing noise forced the owner to the hard shoulder, with the front wheels on a lock he saw this....

In actual fact both front tyres were in this condition!

The distressed owner pursued legal compensation based on the Dealers ignorance for placing him in a life threatening position, he was advised 'NOT' to pursue the claim because the tyres did not 'blow out' so the claim would be based on 'hear say' in addition the Dealer offered to refund all expenses.

In view of these extreme circumstance's i asked the Police how they would deal with this person if stopped on the road with the tyres in the condition displayed. Despite the circumstance's evolving the owners position the Police said they would deal with the matter in the same fashion as any other tyre related offence, ultimately it's the drivers responsibility to ensure the tyres are legal........ not the Dealers!

[Daveyonthemove]

Did this happen on a Rav4?

Which Toyota Dealer is responsible?

[jedi134]

Its just all dealerships in general, No actuall Toyota dealerships mentioned apart from Lexus????

Because they have nice shinney show rooms, give you a cup of tea and a paper to read, This does not mean they know what they are doing!!!!

[Daveyonthemove]

But if you are not posting about a TOYOTA dealer, then why are you trying to put people who drive TOYOTA'S off from using them?

I have used several car dealers over the years, and the worst one was a Ford dealer, and the best one was a Toyota dealer.

I've decided not to tell people on this TOYOTA forum to avoid their dealer because of poor treatment i had with Ford, because its totally irrelevant.

Yes, Toyota and Lexus may share parts and come under the same family tree, but the service is not necessarily the same.

How about posting all the threads on here where TOYOTA honoured customers who suffered head gasket issues with a new engine, despite being outside of a 3 yr or 60,000 mile warranty period?

I would say that is good service, and i've yet to see any other manufacturer do this for their customers.

Occasionally dealers get it wrong, so you try another one. Nobody is obliged to use a dealer just because the car was bought there, but if you don't give them a chance, how do you know if they are good or not?

[jedi134]

So all Toyota dealerships are different? well lets hope your right....

[CharlieFarlie]

So all Toyota dealerships are different? well lets hope your right....

Mate See My post number 10 on this thread ????????????????

[jedi134]

So all Toyota dealerships are different? well lets hope your right....

Mate See My post number 10 on this thread ????????????????

Seen it........ but its obviously not true, as there all brillient and know what they are doing. ;)

[Daveyonthemove]

Of course they are different.

They have different managers.

Different reception staff.

Different parts staff.

Different technicians.

Different franchise's

Each of those variables consists of people who either don't give a crap about the customer, or who genuinely care and want to give the best service.

Any one of those people can make or break a relationship with a dealer, and as EVERYONE is different, they can't possibly all be the same, can they?

Posting the failings of dealers who specialise in other brands to prove that all Toyota dealers are useless is ridiculous.

[jedi134]

Thats my point exactly........... there all useless. Mabye Toyota are the best of a bad bunch... Not slating Toyota, but making people aware that otherwise may not be.

If anything did go horrible wrong dealerships can hide behind this lot:

They have different managers.

Different reception staff.

Different parts staff.

Different technicians.

Different franchise's

I drive a Toyota myself.

[Daveyonthemove]

How can you respond to my post claiming that i was making the same point as you, when clearly i'm NOT!?

They are NOT all the same. Every dealership is different regardless of the Badge over the door.

Why don't you tell us about the experience you had with a Toyota dealer that has driven you to post up failings by NON Toyota dealers?

[CharlieFarlie]

Of course they are different.

They have different managers.

Different reception staff.

Different parts staff.

Different technicians.

Different franchise's

Each of those variables consists of people who either don't give a crap about the customer, or who genuinely care and want to give the best service.

Any one of those people can make or break a relationship with a dealer, and as EVERYONE is different, they can't possibly all be the same, can they?

Posting the failings of dealers who specialise in other brands to prove that all Toyota dealers are useless is ridiculous.

I agree but posting the crap Dealers of the Toyota brand Might save Fellow Forum Member from coming unstuck !!!

[Daveyonthemove]

Of course they are different.

They have different managers.

Different reception staff.

Different parts staff.

Different technicians.

Different franchise's

Each of those variables consists of people who either don't give a crap about the customer, or who genuinely care and want to give the best service.

Any one of those people can make or break a relationship with a dealer, and as EVERYONE is different, they can't possibly all be the same, can they?

Posting the failings of dealers who specialise in other brands to prove that all Toyota dealers are useless is ridiculous.

I agree but posting the crap Dealers of the Toyota brand Might save Fellow Forum Member from coming unstuck !!!

Charlie, I couldn't agree more.

I have always believed that a bad dealer should get one chance to rectify a fault, and if they fail then they should be named.

I equally agree that any dealer that has provided Good service, or excelled themselves, should get public praise and encourage others to use them.

Branding all dealers the same is as bad as someone calling you a criminal because once upon a time someone with the same hairstyle robbed a bank...

[jedi134]

Exactly Charlie, I have already read a few posts on here with Toyota dealers at fault, fobbing people off etc.

The pictures are to show what does happen in dealerships whether it be Toyota or anyone else.

Maybe there should be a name and shame section for bad dealerships? Or is there one already.

You pay a premium at a dealership, so things like this should not happen, They should be right every time at the prices they charge, no excuse for it in my book.

People working in the dealerships should be fully trained on what the specialise in. The above pictures obviously something is wrong within the network.

All those examples were taken from a wheel alignment site, the guy is a wizz on wheel alignment, he had so many people contact him when a dealer could not fix the problem with thier vehicle, that he set up his own bussiness.

Now even the main dealers take their cars to him, as most have no clue how to align a car.

What else do they not have a clue about?

Why did they want to fleece Charlie out of £227 for a job he ended up doing himself in 5 minutes, for free I presume?

[Daveyonthemove]

What you fail to realise, is that bad dealers will automatically get bad press on forums, because most people who join up a forum have done an internet search for a problem they have, and end up seeking more info when they get a result on a search page.

There are MILLIONS of happy customers out there, but they don't join forums to post about how a service was done smoothly and the car got washed, they post to complain about things like the issues above.

Its not a true reflection of every dealer, it just highlights some issues. This is both good and bad, because anyone with similar symptoms has an idea of what to look for.

I'm still waiting to hear of your dreadful experience from a Toyota dealer, and if every other Toyota dealer in the country was exactly the same, because in order for you to say that they are, you have clearly tried them all out at some point for the same issue.