Is An Engine Flush Necessary?

[anastasia]

I've just booked my 09 diesel yaris in for it's 40,000 mile service and was offered an engine flush for £37. It's not had one before (although I think I ahve been offered it and said no on the previous services) and I'm just wondering whether I ought to have it done really?

Does anyone here have any opinions on whether it's really necessary? If it is I'll ask them to do it, but I wanted to check first as I'm never sure whether these things are really necessary or are a way to make further money out of you!

Thanks for the help.

[Mistermena]

I've just booked my 09 diesel yaris in for it's 40,000 mile service and was offered an engine flush for £37. It's not had one before (although I think I ahve been offered it and said no on the previous services) and I'm just wondering whether I ought to have it done really?

Does anyone here have any opinions on whether it's really necessary? If it is I'll ask them to do it, but I wanted to check first as I'm never sure whether these things are really necessary or are a way to make further money out of you!

Thanks for the help.

I think that they are taking the :censor: at £37 for engine flush. All they do is pour a bottle of the stuff into your engine (That mixes with the engine oil) and let it run at a fast idle for 10mins or so and drain it with the engine oil. It does clean out the cranck case and help remove things like varnish build up ect.

Its upto you,but you have to be carful using it on higher milage vehicles (But yours should be okay) as it can cause problems with getting rid of deposits around the piston rings and you could start to burn oil when the car didn't before. The same thing can happen if someone has been using a "Mineral based" oil for years and then change to a "Synth" oil. The detergents help clean the engine so well it can get rid of deposits that helped seal the piston rings and then you start to burn oil.

You can pick up a bottle of Forte engine flush off eBay for anywhere between £5 to £10 and take it them to use. I bought 32 bottles of the stuff and it worked out at £2.20 a bottle. If you are anywhere near Cardiff I'll give you a bottle for free

[Daveyonthemove]

The way i see it is this:

Engine flush is used to flush old oil out the nooks and crannies.

New oil is then placed in the engine.

What is used to flush out the engine flush that is sat in the nooks and crannies that the old oil was in?

Is your car engine designed to work with detergents in it, or just oil?

I've never used an engine flush simply because i don't like the idea of a foreign liquid running around in a high pressure engine, and for the price, it's cheaper to flush out the engine with 2 litres of clean oil.

[anastasia]

Wow, that's all it is! £37 is a bit much really, isn't it!

Do you think it would be OK to leave it this time and then I can get some for next time? I won't be doing as much mileage anymore (in my previous job I was commuting 110 miles per day, which is how it's got up so high as the car only had 3,500 miles on it when i got in December 2009). I'm only doing around 36 miles per day now. Which is a relief given I was having a service every few months! I do miss driving the car though. Flying up the motorway is different to crawling along at 30 on minor roads.

[anastasia]

Thanks for all the help guys, I have no idea about thsi sort of stuff! :)

[Mistermena]

I use Forte engine flush, and then use a engine oil to remove any flush, then fill with the oil of my choice. Engine oil does have detergent packages within the oil to help clean the moving parts. People have many different veiws on so many products and do's and dont's! At the end of the day it come down to a personal preference.

[Mistermena]

Wow, that's all it is! £37 is a bit much really, isn't it!

Do you think it would be OK to leave it this time and then I can get some for next time? I won't be doing as much mileage anymore (in my previous job I was commuting 110 miles per day, which is how it's got up so high as the car only had 3,500 miles on it when i got in December 2009). I'm only doing around 36 miles per day now. Which is a relief given I was having a service every few months! I do miss driving the car though. Flying up the motorway is different to crawling along at 30 on minor roads.

Yer thats all it is! If your car is running okay without any problems. Then I'd be inclined not to do it if you're unsure. As long as you're using a good grade of oil (With the right spec) and having it serviced at the correct milage/intervals then "If it aint broke, dont fix it"

I've used Forte (Can only be bought through the trade or off eBay I've found) stuff for over 20 years and I found it to be one of the market leaders and never had a problem. But again its down to you at the end of the day

[anastasia]

I'm using Toyota oil (how much oil do these cars like to guzzle?!) I think I will leave it this time and have more of a think about it. It's difficult to know what's the right and wrong thing to do sometimes. She seems to be running OK though.

[Mistermena]

I'm using Toyota oil (how much oil do these cars like to guzzle?!) I think I will leave it this time and have more of a think about it. It's difficult to know what's the right and wrong thing to do sometimes. She seems to be running OK though.

It really depends from car to car. No 2 cars are the same, even if they are the same model. If its using more that a ltr of oil between services then I'd start to have a look at it more closely. Member "Kingo" might be along in a min to tell you whats acceptable from a Toyota point of view

[anastasia]

Lol, no it's not using that much, I just have to top it up generally once or twice between services, but only a little bit (a little bit doesn't really help does it!) I'm such a girl!

[Mistermena]

Lol, no it's not using that much, I just have to top it up generally once or twice between services, but only a little bit (a little bit doesn't really help does it!) I'm such a girl!

Lol... I think you'll be fine if thats all it is. We like having girls on here so we dont have to talk to the blokes so oftern!

Btw.. If get a chance to get hold of a bottle of somthing called BG244 and put it in your fuel tank, it will help clean your injectors and should make the car quieter and give you more mpg. You can get it from powerenhancers or eBay for around £22. Now that stuff really does work a treat...

Hope you enjoy the car

[acetip]

why with modern engine oils that have a detergent in them would anyone need to flush their engine,the detergent in the oil keeps the muck (for a better word) in suspension.it does not form the sludge like the earlier oils did,(must have cleaned tons of that out of engines years ago)if your oil ia changed when it should be,then there will be no problems.

even with the old oils,(non detergent) if you changed your oil when it should be there was no problem with petrol engine,as i posted before when you drain your oil out of your sump you do not get all the oil out of your engine,there is hundreds of little places that oil is trapped that cant drain.i would not want some of this flushing oil left in my engine contaminating my nice new oil i am putting in.would you.

[Mistermena]

Modern engine oils have a detergent pack in to help clean the engines moving parts as I mentioned. Diesel fuel is by its nature a more acid fuel so therefore it was always deemed prudent to have a more alkiline oil to combat the acid formed in combustion. Hence the reason of having an oil specifically for a diesel engines and ones for petrol powered vehicles. Now we have the synth oils that cover both petrol and diesels.

Petrol engine vehicles run (In the most part) cleaner that diesel ones( You only have to check the oil on a diesel car after its been serviced to see its gone black within the 1st hundred or so miles, but a petol engine oil will stay clean for a lot longer) so using an engine flush in my book for a diesel can be of benefit.

Having a car fitted with a D-CAT like mine has I've noticed that the engine oil (After many thousands of miles) still doesnt "Blacken" like my VW Polo TDi that doesn't have a DPF (Diesel Particular Filter).

So again... After all the comments, you will have to make your own mind up!

[acetip]

Modern engine oils have a detergent pack in to help clean the engines moving parts as I mentioned. Diesel fuel is by its nature a more acid fuel so therefore it was always deemed prudent to have a more alkiline oil to combat the acid formed in combustion. Hence the reason of having an oil specifically for a diesel engines and ones for petrol powered vehicles. Now we have the synth oils that cover both petrol and diesels.

Petrol engine vehicles run (In the most part) cleaner that diesel ones( You only have to check the oil on a diesel car to see its gone black within the 1st hundred or so miles, but a petol engine oil will stay clean for a lot longer) so using an engine flush in my book for a diesel can be of benefit.

Having a car fitted with a D-CAT like mine has I've noticed that the engine oil (After many thousands of miles) still doesnt "Blacken" like my VW Polo TDi that doesn't have a DPF (Diesel Particular Filter).

So again... After all the comments, you will have to make your own mind up!

some of the reason the oil goes black early is because as i said,some of the old oil remains when you drain.DPF do make differece though.always nicer to see a clean oil on the dipstick.but the oil on the stick is very thin so appears cleaner than say if you drained it in to a clean drain tray,the oil would appear darker than on the stick.

[Mistermena]

Modern engine oils have a detergent pack in to help clean the engines moving parts as I mentioned. Diesel fuel is by its nature a more acid fuel so therefore it was always deemed prudent to have a more alkiline oil to combat the acid formed in combustion. Hence the reason of having an oil specifically for a diesel engines and ones for petrol powered vehicles. Now we have the synth oils that cover both petrol and diesels.

Petrol engine vehicles run (In the most part) cleaner that diesel ones( You only have to check the oil on a diesel car to see its gone black within the 1st hundred or so miles, but a petol engine oil will stay clean for a lot longer) so using an engine flush in my book for a diesel can be of benefit.

Having a car fitted with a D-CAT like mine has I've noticed that the engine oil (After many thousands of miles) still doesnt "Blacken" like my VW Polo TDi that doesn't have a DPF (Diesel Particular Filter).

So again... After all the comments, you will have to make your own mind up!

some of the reason the oil goes black early is because as i said,some of the old oil remains when you drain.DPF do make differece though.always nicer to see a clean oil on the dipstick.but the oil on the stick is very thin so appears cleaner than say if you drained it in to a clean drain tray,the oil would appear darker than on the stick.

Yes alway nice to see clean oil. I have noticed that the oil is darker when its dropped compared to the dipstick. I think that the DPF must be doing its job properly.

[acetip]

Modern engine oils have a detergent pack in to help clean the engines moving parts as I mentioned. Diesel fuel is by its nature a more acid fuel so therefore it was always deemed prudent to have a more alkiline oil to combat the acid formed in combustion. Hence the reason of having an oil specifically for a diesel engines and ones for petrol powered vehicles. Now we have the synth oils that cover both petrol and diesels.

Petrol engine vehicles run (In the most part) cleaner that diesel ones( You only have to check the oil on a diesel car to see its gone black within the 1st hundred or so miles, but a petol engine oil will stay clean for a lot longer) so using an engine flush in my book for a diesel can be of benefit.

Having a car fitted with a D-CAT like mine has I've noticed that the engine oil (After many thousands of miles) still doesnt "Blacken" like my VW Polo TDi that doesn't have a DPF (Diesel Particular Filter).

So again... After all the comments, you will have to make your own mind up!

some of the reason the oil goes black early is because as i said,some of the old oil remains when you drain.DPF do make differece though.always nicer to see a clean oil on the dipstick.but the oil on the stick is very thin so appears cleaner than say if you drained it in to a clean drain tray,the oil would appear darker than on the stick.

Yes alway nice to see clean oil. I have noticed that the oil is darker when its dropped compared to the dipstick. I think that the DPF must be doing its job properly.

non of the diesel cars i used to have had a DPF.so all i know is what little ive read.

some cars i beleave have a warning light when the DPF needs a blast through.

others i understand are automaticly cleaned by injecting fuel into the DPF.

but as the DPF is in the exaust system to clean up omissions,how and why will this have any effect on the condition of the lube oil.

i read some place about the trouble some Mazda owners are/were having with their DPFs.

it seems they get a dash warning that the car has to be given a high speed run to clean the DPF.failure to do this, causes for a reason i dont know for the sump level to rise.there is an X mark on the dipstick that if the oil level exeeds there is a possibility of a fire occuring.indeed there have been cases of this happening.and Mazda do not accept any responseibility for this if it happens.dont know how fuel gets into the Mazda sumps though.

will have to do search on this problem.

sorry about the ignorence on DPFs but any advice would be welcome.

[acetip]

further to above.

if you google MAZDA DPF PROBLEMS you will find these problem owners are having

[Cyker]

Engine flushes are generally unnecessary unless there is a problem like gunk or debris build up.

If the car is maintained and serviced regularly it should never need one!

Regular oil changes are especially important for us Diesel Yaris owners as the oil has to work harder than in petrol cars and we have chain cams which are lubricated by that same oil!

[acetip]

Engine flushes are generally unnecessary unless there is a problem like gunk or debris build up.

If the car is maintained and serviced regularly it should never need one!

Regular oil changes are especially important for us Diesel Yaris owners as the oil has to work harder than in petrol cars and we have chain cams which are lubricated by that same oil!

i agree,but vvti engines also have timing chains too .keep to the servive intervals on you oil changes and you want go far wrong.toyota 10000 mile oil changes are a lot shorter than many other cars require.diesel lube oil will be black,this does not mean the engine is sludged up.the carbon or whatever is held in suspension in the oil and will drain off at the oil change.

[Mistermena]

Engine flushes are generally unnecessary unless there is a problem like gunk or debris build up.

If the car is maintained and serviced regularly it should never need one!

Regular oil changes are especially important for us Diesel Yaris owners as the oil has to work harder than in petrol cars and we have chain cams which are lubricated by that same oil!

I agree that is so important to have regular oil change interval with cars that have timing chains. The T-180's also have the same chain driven cams found on some Avensis, Rav's ect (2-AD power units) which use the oil for lubrication. I had an Audi A6 3.2 (Quad cam V6 32 valve) that had a timing chain failure. The cost of replacing that engine was £12776...

[Madasafish]

Just doen an engine flush - and oil and filter change on son's 1.0. The VVTI mechanism - especially the chain tensioner - started making metallic noises all of a sudden. Sounded like the tensioner was not working: I assumed oil feed blocked due to a piece of crud..

10 mins idling with hot engine with Liqui Moly Engine Flush http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300555568458&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

and oil and filter change... had no immediate effect. But after 30 miles, it clearly moved the blockage and engine is now quiet again.

Engine had been sadly neglected when we bought it 15 months ago: so obviously some rubbish had been dislodged.

[acetip]

Just doen an engine flush - and oil and filter change on son's 1.0. The VVTI mechanism - especially the chain tensioner - started making metallic noises all of a sudden. Sounded like the tensioner was not working: I assumed oil feed blocked due to a piece of crud..

10 mins idling with hot engine with Liqui Moly Engine Flush http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300555568458&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

and oil and filter change... had no immediate effect. But after 30 miles, it clearly moved the blockage and engine is now quiet again.

Engine had been sadly neglected when we bought it 15 months ago: so obviously some rubbish had been dislodged.

the rubbish that had been disturbed,may not have all drained out.if you must flush when refilling only fill to min mark on stick take car for a run then drain sump again then refill to full mark.you could change the filter again to make a job of it.

[t-spiritpete]

Modern engine oils have a detergent pack in to help clean the engines moving parts as I mentioned. Diesel fuel is by its nature a more acid fuel so therefore it was always deemed prudent to have a more alkiline oil to combat the acid formed in combustion. Hence the reason of having an oil specifically for a diesel engines and ones for petrol powered vehicles. Now we have the synth oils that cover both petrol and diesels.

Petrol engine vehicles run (In the most part) cleaner that diesel ones( You only have to check the oil on a diesel car to see its gone black within the 1st hundred or so miles, but a petol engine oil will stay clean for a lot longer) so using an engine flush in my book for a diesel can be of benefit.

Having a car fitted with a D-CAT like mine has I've noticed that the engine oil (After many thousands of miles) still doesnt "Blacken" like my VW Polo TDi that doesn't have a DPF (Diesel Particular Filter).

So again... After all the comments, you will have to make your own mind up!

some of the reason the oil goes black early is because as i said,some of the old oil remains when you drain.DPF do make differece though.always nicer to see a clean oil on the dipstick.but the oil on the stick is very thin so appears cleaner than say if you drained it in to a clean drain tray,the oil would appear darker than on the stick.

Yes alway nice to see clean oil. I have noticed that the oil is darker when its dropped compared to the dipstick. I think that the DPF must be doing its job properly.

Remember that your Avensis180 has an all alloy engine which will always keep the oil cleaner as opposed to the older cast iron block engine which does react more with the acids produced.

Pete.

[Mistermena]

Modern engine oils have a detergent pack in to help clean the engines moving parts as I mentioned. Diesel fuel is by its nature a more acid fuel so therefore it was always deemed prudent to have a more alkiline oil to combat the acid formed in combustion. Hence the reason of having an oil specifically for a diesel engines and ones for petrol powered vehicles. Now we have the synth oils that cover both petrol and diesels.

Petrol engine vehicles run (In the most part) cleaner that diesel ones( You only have to check the oil on a diesel car to see its gone black within the 1st hundred or so miles, but a petol engine oil will stay clean for a lot longer) so using an engine flush in my book for a diesel can be of benefit.

Having a car fitted with a D-CAT like mine has I've noticed that the engine oil (After many thousands of miles) still doesnt "Blacken" like my VW Polo TDi that doesn't have a DPF (Diesel Particular Filter).

So again... After all the comments, you will have to make your own mind up!

some of the reason the oil goes black early is because as i said,some of the old oil remains when you drain.DPF do make differece though.always nicer to see a clean oil on the dipstick.but the oil on the stick is very thin so appears cleaner than say if you drained it in to a clean drain tray,the oil would appear darker than on the stick.

Yes alway nice to see clean oil. I have noticed that the oil is darker when its dropped compared to the dipstick. I think that the DPF must be doing its job properly.

Remember that your Avensis180 has an all alloy engine which will always keep the oil cleaner as opposed to the older cast iron block engine which does react more with the acids produced.

Pete.

Yer, both my T-180 and my VW have alloy block casing. I remember my old Vaxhall Corsa's( Isuzu 1.5D cast iron block) engines oil use to be black as anything after a short while of driving. But it did show that th oil was doing its job properly

[RS4]

Engine flushes are generally unnecessary unless there is a problem like gunk or debris build up.

If the car is maintained and serviced regularly it should never need one!

Regular oil changes are especially important for us Diesel Yaris owners as the oil has to work harder than in petrol cars and we have chain cams which are lubricated by that same oil!

I agree that is so important to have regular oil change interval with cars that have timing chains. The T-180's also have the same chain driven cams found on some Avensis, Rav's ect (2-AD power units) which use the oil for lubrication. I had an Audi A6 3.2 (Quad cam V6 32 valve) that had a timing chain failure. The cost of replacing that engine was £12776...

If I may go slightly off the Yaris subject a bit. £13k for a new engine is some nose bleed, to say the least. Did you get any warning before the chain failed (e.g. rattling from cold etc)? I dread to think what the cost of a new 4.2 litre V8 would be in my RS4 if the timing chain failed.