4.3 Engine Tone

[Mistermena]

Guys

I may be able to help.

I've been researching this problem for a good 12 months and I know how frustrating it is when no one has a definative answer. There are so many people of her reporting very similar problems, and it is difficult to explain these problems on a forum without a technical background.

However, I think I may have that answer if you have a 4.3 RAV4 2.2 D4D and are suffering engine knock / loud banging / rough idle, poor econ.

Just got my car back from the dealership yesterday.FIXED.

To confirm, I have a 4.3 Rav4 2.2 (56 plate) with 36k on the clock. I've only had the car 18 months and bought it with 30K on the clock. Not doing many miles as you can see. Can't remember exactly when it started,but for certainly for over 12 months I have been suffering with terrible 'tractor' noises or very loud knocking at low speed (low revs). Also had the smoky exhaust and poor mpg (max 29-30)

I had tried all the of the laymans options - oils, filters,fuel cleaners. No improvement.

I took the EGR value off and found it to be completly clogged with carbon. Not a good sign. I assumed that my car was out of warranty on age alone so I took to visiting a number of garages who said it was anything from 'normal diesel knock' to 'a dodgy sensor' to a 'new set of injectors'.

Frustrated, I decided to give my local Toyota dealership a ring (Westlands, Worcester)

I was extremely suprised when the parts guy said straight away ' Yes, it is a recognised problem on that engine. If it is what I think its an enqine rebuild. Over 3k of work, but Toyota has extended their warranty for this issue to 5 years'.

Took the car in to them last tues (17/05/11). Had a call in the afternoon to say it needed new revised pistons, values, seals, head gasket and revised injectors.

I was told that the original engine design was flawed. The engine did not allow adequate recirculated exhaust gases to flow through the engine, meaning a build up on the head and engine components - and this then backing up into the EGR. Cleaning out the EGR is ok, but it would seem that once the EGR was blocked,the damage was done. He explained that the injectors were also damaged, perhaps as a result of this, but in any case, they would fit new revised ones. I am not technical, so bear with me, but he described the new pistons as being designed to allow more recirculated gases to flow freely, preventing the carbon clogging and damage that I had seen. He also said that this was a wide spread and recoginised issue.

In total, the work cost nearly 4k,but it was completly free to me. (incidently, I had the revised steering shaft fitted (another problem on the 4.3) which wasn't covered, but they did fit it at cost, so I really can't complain.

Got the car back yesterday and it runs like a dream. Quiet - no smoke - and extra urban has shot up and is now easily around 42mpg - not 29mpg.

Please spread the word - so many people with this problem, to a certain degree or other. Cheers!!

Now that is another result. I've had 2 new engines from Mr T now under the extended warranty. The last cost £6500 at no cost to me. I'm hoping that this one will last for longer than the other one did at just 8000 miles.

[El Bee]

Now that is another result. I've had 2 new engines from Mr T now under the extended warranty. The last cost £6500 at no cost to me. I'm hoping that this one will last for longer than the other one did at just 8000 miles.

Does anyone know if Mr T has actually got around to fixing whaterver it is that is giving these problems, or can I expect them on a 2011 model, speak up now, coz much as I like you lot, if it's a lemon, it's going!

<worried bloke :!Removed!:>

Lee

[Mistermena]

Now that is another result. I've had 2 new engines from Mr T now under the extended warranty. The last cost £6500 at no cost to me. I'm hoping that this one will last for longer than the other one did at just 8000 miles.

Does anyone know if Mr T has actually got around to fixing whaterver it is that is giving these problems, or can I expect them on a 2011 model, speak up now, coz much as I like you lot, if it's a lemon, it's going!

<worried bloke :!Removed!:>

Lee

I belive that they have cured the problem with the T-180 head gasket issue! I think the 1st re-build was a bit of a bodge job But only time will tell for me as I've only done 3k on the new engine. ;)

[anchorman]

Now that is another result. I've had 2 new engines from Mr T now under the extended warranty. The last cost £6500 at no cost to me. I'm hoping that this one will last for longer than the other one did at just 8000 miles.

Does anyone know if Mr T has actually got around to fixing whaterver it is that is giving these problems, or can I expect them on a 2011 model, speak up now, coz much as I like you lot, if it's a lemon, it's going!

<worried bloke :!Removed!:>

Lee

Where have you been Lee?

Yours is a completely different engine with many modifications over the original design - even a heavily modified block and pistons.

[Big Kev]

Now that is another result. I've had 2 new engines from Mr T now under the extended warranty. The last cost £6500 at no cost to me. I'm hoping that this one will last for longer than the other one did at just 8000 miles.

Does anyone know if Mr T has actually got around to fixing whaterver it is that is giving these problems, or can I expect them on a 2011 model, speak up now, coz much as I like you lot, if it's a lemon, it's going!

<worried bloke :shutit:>

Lee

Where have you been Lee?

Yours is a completely different engine with many modifications over the original design - even a heavily modified block and pistons.

Lee was recently in Glasgow with his heavily modified engine.....it does not necessarily follow that he went home to the sunshine with the same engine....when we do a swap up here, we do it right, right? He was even daft enough to take the bloody car to Ayrshire, so he may now have painted steel wheels.....

Patriotic Kev

[webleymk3]

Now that is another result. I've had 2 new engines from Mr T now under the extended warranty. The last cost £6500 at no cost to me. I'm hoping that this one will last for longer than the other one did at just 8000 miles.

Does anyone know if Mr T has actually got around to fixing whaterver it is that is giving these problems, or can I expect them on a 2011 model, speak up now, coz much as I like you lot, if it's a lemon, it's going!

<worried bloke :shutit:>

Lee

Where have you been Lee?

Yours is a completely different engine with many modifications over the original design - even a heavily modified block and pistons.

Lee was recently in Glasgow with his heavily modified engine.....it does not necessarily follow that he went home to the sunshine with the same engine....when we do a swap up here, we do it right, right? He was even daft enough to take the bloody car to Ayrshire, so he may now have painted steel wheels.....

Patriotic Kev

So that's where you sourced my new engine block from... ;)

[Big Kev]

Now that is another result. I've had 2 new engines from Mr T now under the extended warranty. The last cost £6500 at no cost to me. I'm hoping that this one will last for longer than the other one did at just 8000 miles.

Does anyone know if Mr T has actually got around to fixing whaterver it is that is giving these problems, or can I expect them on a 2011 model, speak up now, coz much as I like you lot, if it's a lemon, it's going!

<worried bloke :shutit:>

Lee

Where have you been Lee?

Yours is a completely different engine with many modifications over the original design - even a heavily modified block and pistons.

Lee was recently in Glasgow with his heavily modified engine.....it does not necessarily follow that he went home to the sunshine with the same engine....when we do a swap up here, we do it right, right? He was even daft enough to take the bloody car to Ayrshire, so he may now have painted steel wheels.....

Patriotic Kev

So that's where you sourced my new engine block from... ;)

Aye, Webz....there was a wee bit missing from your previous one....Bothy would have called it a chip off the old block....

Anon Amos

[El Bee]

Now that is another result. I've had 2 new engines from Mr T now under the extended warranty. The last cost £6500 at no cost to me. I'm hoping that this one will last for longer than the other one did at just 8000 miles.

Does anyone know if Mr T has actually got around to fixing whaterver it is that is giving these problems, or can I expect them on a 2011 model, speak up now, coz much as I like you lot, if it's a lemon, it's going!

<worried bloke :!Removed!:>

Lee

Where have you been Lee?

Here Sir, at the back of the class, taking notes and struggling to keep up

Yours is a completely different engine with many modifications over the original design - even a heavily modified block and pistons.

TFFT It looks exactly the same as the engines that keep going duff though, I wonder why they got it so worng in the first place, I'm also wondering if they've got the +MM (Many Mods) engine right, the 2.2 has been going quite a while yes?

I'm gonna have a look in the exasperating valve soon, see if it's full of crud like the others

Lee

[anchorman]

The air passages in the new block also reduce oil consumption by reducing crank case pressure.

This variant or the 2.2 is a fine work of art.

new engine.pdf

[El Bee]

The air passages in the new block also reduce oil consumption by reducing crank case pressure.

This variant or the 2.2 is a fine work of art.

new engine.pdf

You Sir, are a gentleman and source of reassurance to we less informed - no mickey take!

With luck they will eventually evolve into a 2 stroke diesel, ideally with chain driven rotary exhaust valves, crosshead bearings and compressed air start - at which stage I hope to be useful to this forum - coz they're the diesels I know best.

Lee - - been reminiscing with another Sulzer fixer tonight :)

[anchorman]

You restoring loco's?

[El Bee]

You restoring loco's?

Nah, I'm an 8RD90 specialist

Anything that exceeds 150 rpm flat out is a bit frantic for me, but a big diesel working at 15rpm fair makes the hairs on the back of me neck stand on end

Lee

[Big Kev]

You restoring loco's?

Nah, I'm an 8RD90 specialist

Anything that exceeds 150 rpm flat out is a bit frantic for me, but a big diesel working at 15rpm fair makes the hairs on the back of me neck stand on end

Lee

aye ok Lee...WTF IS THAT? A new rotary engine from that shower of ****els at Mazda....?

Big Kev

Have just been censorised unduly by referring to the proper name (inventor?) of the Rotary Engine....ho-hum....

[El Bee]

aye ok Lee...WTF IS THAT? A new rotary engine from that shower of ****els at Mazda....?

Big Kev

You'll wish you never asked

It's a big slow revvin' 2 stroke turbot diseasel Kev, they're a long stroke engine (about 3 metre stroke from memory) with compressed air start and rotary exhaust valves, they burn heavy oil preheated to around 240F to make it thin enough to go through the injectors, the pistons are ridgidly fixed to a piston rod mounted in a crosshead bearing (big bearing running on railway tracks in the upper crankcase) connecting to the conrod running down to the crank. Turbos are generally Asea Brown Boverei units, the small (about as big as a Mini) feed cyls 1 and 2 and 7 and 8 while cyls 3,4,5, and 6 are fed by a larger unit (about as big as a RAV4) all running around 40K rpm while the engine is doing 115 or 120 rpm.

They have their own special challenges, for instance you can't start them from cold, so you have a water boiler and a pressurised system (to stop it boiling) and pump the resultant 300F+ water through the pistons and liners so that the whole job doesn't disintegrate into its component parts when you kick it over.

Sizewize if you imagine a terrace of 6 town houses, the three story high ones and yer about there

Stick a pair of them side by side and as well as making a bit of a racket they'll shove out nigh on 36,000 horsepower, and run non-stop for weeks. Any they'll chomp through about 30 tons of fuel a day - each!

Lee

[Mistermena]

aye ok Lee...WTF IS THAT? A new rotary engine from that shower of ****els at Mazda....?

Big Kev

You'll wish you never asked

It's a big slow revvin' 2 stroke turbot diseasel Kev, they're a long stroke engine (about 3 metre stroke from memory) with compressed air start and rotary exhaust valves, they burn heavy oil preheated to around 240F to make it thin enough to go through the injectors, the pistons are ridgidly fixed to a piston rod mounted in a crosshead bearing (big bearing running on railway tracks in the upper crankcase) connecting to the conrod running down to the crank. Turbos are generally Asea Brown Boverei units, the small (about as big as a Mini) feed cyls 1 and 2 and 7 and 8 while cyls 3,4,5, and 6 are fed by a larger unit (about as big as a RAV4) all running around 40K rpm while the engine is doing 115 or 120 rpm.

They have their own special challenges, for instance you can't start them from cold, so you have a water boiler and a pressurised system (to stop it boiling) and pump the resultant 300F+ water through the pistons and liners so that the whole job doesn't disintegrate into its component parts when you kick it over.

Sizewize if you imagine a terrace of 6 town houses, the three story high ones and yer about there

Stick a pair of them side by side and as well as making a bit of a racket they'll shove out nigh on 36,000 horsepower, and run non-stop for weeks. Any they'll chomp through about 30 tons of fuel a day - each!

Lee

WOW! Now that is something I'd love to take a look at. Sounds like a dream job to me.

[Davrav]

aye ok Lee...WTF IS THAT? A new rotary engine from that shower of ****els at Mazda....?

Big Kev

You'll wish you never asked

It's a big slow revvin' 2 stroke turbot diseasel Kev, they're a long stroke engine (about 3 metre stroke from memory) with compressed air start and rotary exhaust valves, they burn heavy oil preheated to around 240F to make it thin enough to go through the injectors, the pistons are ridgidly fixed to a piston rod mounted in a crosshead bearing (big bearing running on railway tracks in the upper crankcase) connecting to the conrod running down to the crank. Turbos are generally Asea Brown Boverei units, the small (about as big as a Mini) feed cyls 1 and 2 and 7 and 8 while cyls 3,4,5, and 6 are fed by a larger unit (about as big as a RAV4) all running around 40K rpm while the engine is doing 115 or 120 rpm.

They have their own special challenges, for instance you can't start them from cold, so you have a water boiler and a pressurised system (to stop it boiling) and pump the resultant 300F+ water through the pistons and liners so that the whole job doesn't disintegrate into its component parts when you kick it over.

Sizewize if you imagine a terrace of 6 town houses, the three story high ones and yer about there

Stick a pair of them side by side and as well as making a bit of a racket they'll shove out nigh on 36,000 horsepower, and run non-stop for weeks. Any they'll chomp through about 30 tons of fuel a day - each!

Lee

WOW! Now that is something I'd love to take a look at. Sounds like a dream job to me.

HERE'S ONE

[Mistermena]

aye ok Lee...WTF IS THAT? A new rotary engine from that shower of ****els at Mazda....?

Big Kev

You'll wish you never asked

It's a big slow revvin' 2 stroke turbot diseasel Kev, they're a long stroke engine (about 3 metre stroke from memory) with compressed air start and rotary exhaust valves, they burn heavy oil preheated to around 240F to make it thin enough to go through the injectors, the pistons are ridgidly fixed to a piston rod mounted in a crosshead bearing (big bearing running on railway tracks in the upper crankcase) connecting to the conrod running down to the crank. Turbos are generally Asea Brown Boverei units, the small (about as big as a Mini) feed cyls 1 and 2 and 7 and 8 while cyls 3,4,5, and 6 are fed by a larger unit (about as big as a RAV4) all running around 40K rpm while the engine is doing 115 or 120 rpm.

They have their own special challenges, for instance you can't start them from cold, so you have a water boiler and a pressurised system (to stop it boiling) and pump the resultant 300F+ water through the pistons and liners so that the whole job doesn't disintegrate into its component parts when you kick it over.

Sizewize if you imagine a terrace of 6 town houses, the three story high ones and yer about there

Stick a pair of them side by side and as well as making a bit of a racket they'll shove out nigh on 36,000 horsepower, and run non-stop for weeks. Any they'll chomp through about 30 tons of fuel a day - each!

Lee

WOW! Now that is something I'd love to take a look at. Sounds like a dream job to me.

HERE'S ONE

Now thats a bit of kit that I'd like to get my hands dirty on. Wonder what db it runs out :)

[El Bee]

HERE'S ONE

Gerrof, that's it's baby brother, a veritable 1.4 compared to a 2.2

Not seen (or worked on one) like that where the turbochargers (only 2 little 'uns) are mounted on top of the scavenge chambers, if you stood on the middle plates of the one in the picture (congrats on finding that BTW Davrav) and looked up you would see 8 hatches where you climb up into the scavengers to change the reed valve stacks and check the ports, bit mucky in there, and hot

ISTR each piston inc its rod on the 90 series engines (900mm bore) went about one and a quarter tons..... The socket to remove the cylinder head nuts was as big as a Quality Street tin and the windy spanner that drove it had to be lifted by crane - deep joy.

But the noise they make is pure music

Lee

[El Bee]

Now thats a bit of kit that I'd like to get my hands dirty on. Wonder what db it runs out :)

If you mean volume I'd hate to hazard a guess - sign language loud though, they easily drown out a loud voiced bloke, a foot away from your ear 'ole yelling at you it's cuppa time !

It's prolly why I find modern car engines fiddly, fragile and complex

Lee

[Mistermena]

Now thats a bit of kit that I'd like to get my hands dirty on. Wonder what db it runs out :)

If you mean volume I'd hate to hazard a guess - sign language loud though, they easily drown out a loud voiced bloke, a foot away from your ear 'ole yelling at you it's cuppa time !

It's prolly why I find modern car engines fiddly, fragile and complex

Lee

I bet you do an all after working on a monster like that! I'm gonna quit my job as a driving instructor and come and have a play with the big boys piece of kit

[Big Kev]

aye ok Lee...WTF IS THAT? A new rotary engine from that shower of ****els at Mazda....?

Big Kev

You'll wish you never asked

It's a big slow revvin' 2 stroke turbot diseasel Kev, they're a long stroke engine (about 3 metre stroke from memory) with compressed air start and rotary exhaust valves, they burn heavy oil preheated to around 240F to make it thin enough to go through the injectors, the pistons are ridgidly fixed to a piston rod mounted in a crosshead bearing (big bearing running on railway tracks in the upper crankcase) connecting to the conrod running down to the crank. Turbos are generally Asea Brown Boverei units, the small (about as big as a Mini) feed cyls 1 and 2 and 7 and 8 while cyls 3,4,5, and 6 are fed by a larger unit (about as big as a RAV4) all running around 40K rpm while the engine is doing 115 or 120 rpm.

They have their own special challenges, for instance you can't start them from cold, so you have a water boiler and a pressurised system (to stop it boiling) and pump the resultant 300F+ water through the pistons and liners so that the whole job doesn't disintegrate into its component parts when you kick it over.

Sizewize if you imagine a terrace of 6 town houses, the three story high ones and yer about there

Stick a pair of them side by side and as well as making a bit of a racket they'll shove out nigh on 36,000 horsepower, and run non-stop for weeks. Any they'll chomp through about 30 tons of fuel a day - each!

Lee

Glad ah asked, Senor....eloquent posting also too forbye. Nae wunder most Merchant Seamen have hearing problems....!!!

Big Kev

[El Bee]

Glad ah asked, Senor....eloquent posting also too forbye. Nae wunder most Merchant Seamen have hearing problems....!!!

Big Kev

TVM Kev

Did ya see me "Welcome Tae Glasgae" picture? Good eh? Dunno how you lot manage with your roadsigns on the other side of the road. Scotland was the first time, apart from washes that me RAV ever got wet...

Lee

[Big Kev]

Glad ah asked, Senor....eloquent posting also too forbye. Nae wunder most Merchant Seamen have hearing problems....!!!

Big Kev

TVM Kev

Did ya see me "Welcome Tae Glasgae" picture? Good eh? Dunno how you lot manage with your roadsigns on the other side of the road. Scotland was the first time, apart from washes that me RAV ever got wet...

Lee

Sorry so late in replying, Lee....all a bit confused up here.....yellow ball in t'sky today, causing much heat, so we all sat down and looked up at it. Are we at risk of any health issues in so doing....?

And for the record, it's GLEZGA....Glasgae is for the posh folk in Newton Mearns (on the OLD A77....)WHO HAVE NEVER RECOVERED from being given a "G" post code. What phoaty dost thou refer to....?

Red Faced Kev :censor:

[El Bee]

Sorry so late in replying, Lee....all a bit confused up here.....yellow ball in t'sky today, causing much heat, so we all sat down and looked up at it. Are we at risk of any health issues in so doing....?

DON'T LOOK AT THE BIG YELLOW THING - apparently if a Scotchman sees it his sporan withers and falls off!

And for the record, it's GLEZGA....Glasgae is for the posh folk in Newton Mearns (on the OLD A77....)WHO HAVE NEVER RECOVERED from being given a "G" post code. What phoaty dost thou refer to....?

Red Faced Kev :censor:

I saw a young lady in the supermarket yesterday, nice figure and milk bottle white from the back - then she turned round and it was like looking at the PinkBloodyPanther, I've NEVER in my life seen anything so pink, anyway, the "phoaty" is in my photies I guess, the one with the distinctive RAV bonnet in the foreground and the "Welcome to Glasgow" (bet some posh Jock writ that) sign on the verge it's the furthest north Tokyo Joe has been

Lee

[catseye27]

Hi Web

Had my 2007 XTR for a few weeks now. Never really been a diesel fan but now a caravan owner so the advice i had was buy a diesel. Wife wanted a motor you sit up in and my 2 labs wanted easy access to their boot space. Rav4 fitted this criteria perfectly and we really liked the look of the RAV4 inside and outside.

Love the vehicle generally but do struggle with the engine noises associated with diesel engines over petrol equivilants. If i can't get used to it will have to look into changing for the petrol RAV4.

Mine also has a throaty tone when accelerating. Really quiet when cruising. I assume this is the exhaust note or rasp. Guess this is a charactor of the RAV4.

Anyone else able to confirm this?

Cheers