Keys Lost

[amarkey]

Hello, I have lost the only key I had to my 1997 RAV4, and although I obtained a new key from a dealer (using the key code) it does not start the engine. The car is currently in the Netherlands, at a Toyota dealer, where the quote to re-program it is €1500. That's probably more than the car is currently worth, so I don't really want to pay it.

I have heard of 'reprogramming instructions' ... does anyone know if these work? - or have a copy?

Does anyone know any other way of getting around this ... it seems incredible that Toyota are unable to start a Toyota car.

Thanks for any help.

Anna

[Davrav]

Hello, I have lost the only key I had to my 1997 RAV4, and although I obtained a new key from a dealer (using the key code) it does not start the engine. The car is currently in the Netherlands, at a Toyota dealer, where the quote to re-program it is €1500. That's probably more than the car is currently worth, so I don't really want to pay it.

I have heard of 'reprogramming instructions' ... does anyone know if these work? - or have a copy?

Does anyone know any other way of getting around this ... it seems incredible that Toyota are unable to start a Toyota car.

Thanks for any help.

Anna

Hello Anna and welcome to the club

You seem to have a bit of a dilema there. The price they are quoting sounds as if they are pricing for a new ECU too.

Don't know if the key can be programmed without an original [there is a procedure if you have at least one programmed key]

Maybe Parts King can shed some light

Sit tight as others will be along who may know for sure.

[bothwell_buyer]

There was a similar post last week I think but it was that the key /immobiliser was out of sync.

It appears that the 1997 model was perhaps the 1st RAV to have an alarm system that had a transponder thing in the key. A good auto-electrician should be able to remove the immobiliser function.

[amarkey]

According to the garage they can't wire it to bypass the immobiliser.

Seems incredible. I'm faced with having to pay for a new ECB or scrap the car!

Seems a major design fault of Toyota's.

Anyone else with any suggestions?

[jedi134]

As bothwell says, a good auto electricial will be able to by pass the Immobiliser, Or even program the key for you,

Not in a million years will it cost 1500 euros, I rekcon around £200 max,from a Auto elec, or you could even try a digital clock correction guy, the type that will code your clocks.

Do these cars have an OBD port?

You can buy a techstream cable and software for under £100 and program it your self if it has.

What does your new key look like, does it have a fob?

[amarkey]

Hello Jedi134,

Thanks very much for the information. However, I have no idea where to find a digital clock guy. I don't think the car has an OBD port (it's 13 years old).

Can you advise me where I can buy a 'techstream cable and software'? How would I program it?

New key does not have a fob.

Many thanks for answers to above, but remember my car is an older model.

Regards,

Anna

As bothwell says, a good auto electricial will be able to by pass the Immobiliser, Or even program the key for you,

Not in a million years will it cost 1500 euros, I rekcon around £200 max,from a Auto elec, or you could even try a digital clock correction guy, the type that will code your clocks.

Do these cars have an OBD port?

You can buy a techstream cable and software for under £100 and program it your self if it has.

What does your new key look like, does it have a fob?

[jedi134]

If it has not ODB port the cable method will not work, as has been said by others, these cars were fitted with immobilisers, when they entered the uk, so there can be many types, but a good auto electrician, should be able to do this for you.

It will just break the ignition circuit some where, you need to trace it all back.

just a thought when you say it wont start, does it turn over and not start, or does it not turn over.

[amarkey]

Yes it turns over, but then the engine doesn't start.

So you still think an auto electrician can resolve it? although my local garage and 2 Toyota dealers say not.

Anna

If it has not ODB port the cable method will not work, as has been said by others, these cars were fitted with immobilisers, when they entered the uk, so there can be many types, but a good auto electrician, should be able to do this for you.

It will just break the ignition circuit some where, you need to trace it all back.

just a thought when you say it wont start, does it turn over and not start, or does it not turn over.

[jedi134]

yes someone like an auto elec will do it,

If Toyota say they cant do it ask them why?

Ask them what make and model the immobiliser is. I would think they should know.

Like has been said before, its just a break in the ignition circuit somewhere, needs to be tracked and traced.

even modern imoberlisers can be disabled with the right software and cables.

Just keep looking for an auto elec, a good one will do it for you.

where are you looking? in the netherlands or in the uk for an auto elec? is the car still in the netherlands.

[Cyker]

There was a guy in the Yaris forums (I think) who was saying his company could code keys without a master, but you had to send them the ECU.

I'll have a look tomorrow if nobody's found it by then, but now I'm going to sleep!

[amarkey]

Thanks for all suggestions so far.

Toyota say there is no way around the immobiliser for my model, only with more recent models.

Car is still in the Netherlands, at a Toyota dealer in Amsterdam. Obviously I can't get it back to UK easily, although for less than the quoted €1500 to fix it with a new ECB I could probably pay an auto electrician from the UK to come out here for a nice holiday and fix it ... :-)

That's if Toyota in Salisbury are wrong about it not being fixable.

Anyone else with any practical ideas?

Anna

yes someone like an auto elec will do it,

If Toyota say they cant do it ask them why?

Ask them what make and model the immobiliser is. I would think they should know.

Like has been said before, its just a break in the ignition circuit somewhere, needs to be tracked and traced.

even modern imoberlisers can be disabled with the right software and cables.

Just keep looking for an auto elec, a good one will do it for you.

where are you looking? in the netherlands or in the uk for an auto elec? is the car still in the netherlands.

[Mistermena]

Hi Anna,

Are you a member of a breakdown service like the AA/RAC with cover extending to Europe? Could you get them to recover the car back to the UK? If you're not a member you could always join (Think there is a certain amount of time that you can't use it if a new member) and get it back here and then get it fixed for cheaper.

I've not had a chance to re-read your post properly, as I've got to go to work. So if this has been covered then dis regard this

[bothwell_buyer]

The OBD port didn't get installed on RAVs until the early 2000s.

The immobilisers around that time vary, but are still based on technology designed way back at least 15 years or more...ie- they are not that clever. And the same goes for Toyota mechanics...built around 25 to 35 years ago etc etc

A good auto-electrician; or a specialist engine tuner who deals with Jap cars will certainly know what needs done. The immobiliser basically and simply shuts off power to the ignition circuit. When you hear of crims 'hot-wiring' a car to steal it, what they are doing is connecting the Battery to the ignition circuit. You could probably find said crim in a pub (do they have pubs in Netherlands?) and get him/her to sort the problem for a pint.

I assume the key operates the central locking when locking the drivers door?

[Parts-King]

Sounds like you have one of first "chipped" keys

Your dealer (dealers) are quite right when they say they cannot re-programme your car / key

I have posted more times than I care to mention on the subject of lost keys, single keys, non master keys

If you have lost your keys, you are in stuck! NO Toyota dealer has a magic cure, we cannot reprogramme /supply / create a magic key that will open your car and start it, hard to believe, but it's the way it is. The ONLY method your dealer can offer is to replace the engine ECU and lock set, often costing £1000 or more. Toyota do NOT supply any equipment in order to be able re-programme a single key / lost keys

My advice to anyone with a Toyota is keep a BLACK MASTER key somewhere at home in a safe place. A lot of Toyota cars also had a SUB key, one that was grey in colour, if you have a sub key and want to lose a key, they grey key is the one to lose You CANNOT copy a sub key, you can only copy a MASTER key

Having said all that, there are companies out there that can get you a key and reprogramme a key / ECU. Think of it a bit like companies jail breaking your phone, possible to do but strictly frowned upon by the manufacturer. There was a supplier on TOC whio was able to offer this service, but they will need your car to do it, so getting it back from Europe is a must, unless you can find someone over there to offer the same service. Spend a bit of time doing a search on here, the details were posted quite a while ago in another thread on lost keys

Kingo

[local hero]

The OBD port didn't get installed on RAVs until the early 2000s.

The immobilisers around that time vary, but are still based on technology designed way back at least 15 years or more...ie- they are not that clever. And the same goes for Toyota mechanics...built around 25 to 35 years ago etc etc

A good auto-electrician; or a specialist engine tuner who deals with Jap cars will certainly know what needs done. The immobiliser basically and simply shuts off power to the ignition circuit. When you hear of crims 'hot-wiring' a car to steal it, what they are doing is connecting the battery to the ignition circuit. You could probably find said crim in a pub (do they have pubs in Netherlands?) and get him/her to sort the problem for a pint.

I assume the key operates the central locking when locking the drivers door?

I am to an extent with Bothy on this one, Are we saying that a 1997 Rav has never been stolen you have a key for the doors + ignition + steering lock, as said previously a back street garage, or an auto electrician must surely be able to By-pass the immobiliser and fit a temporary switch (if neccesary) you may think i am joking, but i wonder if the local police may know someone who can help you Stew

[Parts-King]

On the old old models, they had the standard key with that 5000 series alarm / immobiliser. Then they did away with that and the immobiliser became a chipped key

If its the old alarm system and immobiliser, you can remove it and carry on as normal, if it's the type with a chip in the key, it cannot be bypassed, it has to be re-programmed

Kingo

[local hero]

On the old old models, they had the standard key with that 5000 series alarm / immobiliser. Then they did away with that and the immobiliser became a chipped key

If its the old alarm system and immobiliser, you can remove it and carry on as normal, if it's the type with a chip in the key, it cannot be bypassed, it has to be re-programmed

Kingo

I know this is not relevant to this poor persons problem as she has no master key, however here is a very easy to follow video of how to programme a copy key..PS I have NOT tried it.. Stew

[Parts-King]

Yes that is the way most keys are handled, except on later models, I did'nt know Dr Stephen Hawking has branched out into cutting :D:

Note the bit where he says you MUST have a master key, otherwise, it cannot be done, unless you can find somebody who has the ECU / Key re-mapper

Kingo

[local hero]

Yes that is the way most keys are handled, except on later models, I did'nt know Dr Stephen Hawking has branched out into cutting :D:

Kingo

PMSL exactly what i thought, Obviously you know far more than me John, just trying to find a way to get her car home, I am sure once here, there will be ways around this problem, I am positive if the car was left around certain estates in Manchester + Liverpool, someone would find a way to get it going Stew

[Parts-King]

Yes I have a key man locally who could do it, but not while in Europe ;)

That electronic voice is soooo annoying

[luke4x4tech]

Just to offer a quick cheep fix

1. buy an ecu+keys from a breakers

2. post it out to the garage

3.get it plugged in ( belive me it all thats needed)

4.tape the key (breakers yard one) to the ignition halo

5.drive home

[amarkey]

Well at least your post is relevant. Can you explain what you mean by point 4?

Thanks,

Anna

Just to offer a quick cheep fix

1. buy an ecu+keys from a breakers

2. post it out to the garage

3.get it plugged in ( belive me it all thats needed)

4.tape the key (breakers yard one) to the ignition halo

5.drive home

[Daveyonthemove]

Well at least your post is relevant. Can you explain what you mean by point 4?

Thanks,

Anna

Just to offer a quick cheep fix

1. buy an ecu+keys from a breakers

2. post it out to the garage

3.get it plugged in ( belive me it all thats needed)

4.tape the key (breakers yard one) to the ignition halo

5.drive home

In your key there is a chip to deactivate the immobiliser.

It only has to be close to the ignition in order for it to work, so if you were to place the 'new' key next to the ignition and tape it there to hold it in place, you should be able to drive the car home without an issue.

[amarkey]

I understand now.

Is there anyone out there who has actually done this?

Anyone?

Because naturally Toyota are sceptical .....

Well at least your post is relevant. Can you explain what you mean by point 4?

Thanks,

Anna

Just to offer a quick cheep fix

1. buy an ecu+keys from a breakers

2. post it out to the garage

3.get it plugged in ( belive me it all thats needed)

4.tape the key (breakers yard one) to the ignition halo

5.drive home

In your key there is a chip to deactivate the immobiliser.

It only has to be close to the ignition in order for it to work, so if you were to place the 'new' key next to the ignition and tape it there to hold it in place, you should be able to drive the car home without an issue.

[jedi134]

No but it sounds plausible.

Also take note of point 3 from Luke 4x4 techs post.

He seems to Imply that he has done it.