Absolutely Disgusting.

[Karma Supra]

I hope this thread gets a "fair chance" (i.e. not be locked or removed by one of the numerous Mods) and does not degenerate into a slanging match, but I would like answers, and as a forum people to have the ability to air their constructive and validated views.

I think as a long term TOC member it is worth me putting up my thoughts. – I have kept this post polite and impersonal with no names added. - please note I'm not trying to "have a pop" at anyone, this thread is posted purely out of frustration from trying to support the club.

I am genuinely, thoroughly disappointed with the forums handling of JAE and the deliberate obstacles set in place when someone has put time and effort to trying to organise a TOC stand for a fairly large event in the calendar that once had a huge TOC presence.

I have not been on as much recently but on getting another Toyota thought I'd come back to the old club, I have been here for many years and made some very good friends, -in fact I'd say some of my best friends from here.

When I logged on to see people struggling to make numbers for a Toc jae stand I was massively surprised as this used to be a BIG event for us (2003 I turned up all along being a member for only a week, made lots of friends, great show!), even more so when I saw the amount of negative comments on the thread trying to organise it, and heard of even more negative comments aimed AT the person trying to organise it via PM.

I thought it might just be a numbers thing, especially after reading a comment from a “super mod” saying “Considering how long this thread has been going I doubt you'll suddenly get 10 names in the next 8 days...” so had a word with my local Jap car mates (EVERY single one a Toc member, apart from their various girlfriends, which also have Toyotas) I managed to drum up over 10 cars which is enough to make a small stand feasible. Great I thought, TOC lives again at JAE.

I did think it rather suspicious that there was ZERO management involvement and as time grew on I was wondering what was happening, and why we were not getting a response. Has management moved on to other projects? (Certainly I can no longer PM Steve even by reply; I wanted to get things sorted and help out) Especially after some negative comments about price and how we “shouldn’t be organising anything without permission” (as far as I can see the organiser first tried making contact with management on the 19th, but commented that PMming is disabled)

I have logged on this morning to see how things have progressed and seen that it has been LOCKED?

Locked I should add by the same mod that said “If the TOC stand isn't going ahead you should say so and hopefully not use TOC to gain numbers for another club.....”

I would like to add that My “club” doesn’t exist, it is a private, invitation only forum for a group of local mates (99% are TOC members anyway) to stay in touch and share car related links, borrow tools and extra pairs of hands etc. Think of it as face book without all the <the spuds of lurrrrvve>s. I am certainly not “recruiting” – which is why you’ll see no reference to it anywhere on my profile or any post I have made. As that would entirely defeat the point. – So I don’t find that comment entirely fair or well informed. – read through the locked thread and you’ll even see me expressly say not to worry about club names.

they also added: "If anybody wants to sort something with TOC i would suggest starting a new thread" I thought that thread was about trying to organise a TOC stand for JAE, hence the numberous requests for managment contact.

Can someone please tell me what is going on? Why is the club/management etc seeming putting every possible obstacle against members trying to drum up support and have a stand at a major calendar event?

Has management expressly said we are not to have a TOC stand at JAE, if not, why not? I only have to ask because there has seemingly been no contact, and nothing put on the thread, - we weren’t even asking for money as we had that all covered! Can we have an “official” response please Steve? (Or if Steve is away who ever else is in charge) I feel a little left in the dark.

Charlie.

[Phoenix999]

Charlie.... I think your post is well considered and worded very nicely

I too am concerned as to what the heck is happening with TOC. It seems to me that, whilst obstacles have not necessarily been placed in the way of the very few members here that wanted to organise a TOC stand, the management/admin on here have done NOTHING to support the members/users of this forum. Something is going on and I don't know what it is

If the current management/admin of TOC want to move onto other projects them please please let a select few members on here know, it might just be possible that there is someone willing to take hold of the reigns to keep TOC going for the good of the forum members/users. With great respect to the current management/admin I have to say that sometimes new blood is a good thing giving rise to new ideas and direction.

Up until very recently I have been happy to subscribe to TOC by paying my yearly subscription but sadly I will not be doing that again come next month when my membership comes up for renewal however, I am most willing to change my mind should there be open and respectful debate about the current concerns of the members on here with the result of an action plan to move TOC forward to hopefully better and lasting things.

Ladies and gentlemen, mods and admin can we please talk over the concerns and worries of what seems to be happening with TOC I for one would like to see it survive and flourish rather than see it simply exist

[dawesy]

i think the current apathy, esp amongst management, is the lack of interest and enthusiasm amongst members.

i appreciate the efforts made by yourself and others to get people to meets and you have done well getting people to come along.

however its not the first time. for the last few years meets have been organised and dates sorted and quite a few have said 'yeah ill go' but as the date draws near and payments need to be made the number of attendees drops and excuses are made.

getting forum members to a meet should not be hard, yes arranging location and itinerary etc that requires effort and work behind the scenes, but people wanting to go, that should not.

charlie i think its great that you care for the club and i too feel that TOC should have a presence there, its just getting to be the same old routine every time, its no wonder that the usual meet organisers have become despondent with organising anything. every year we can start out with 20 names and only end up with 5 actual attendees.

maybe instead of having model forums it should be AREA forums? maybe that would bring people together?

your comments are appreciated as is the tactful way you presented them.

as for the locking of the thread, i have no idea, due to work i have not been on in a few days. as for other members incl mods putting obstacles, i'm not totally sure that that is what was happening,if you are personally having a stand at JAE and invite club members along then i cant see anyone objecting to it but if its a TOC stand then really i would think it would need some form of approval from admin as if anything kicked off, i sure it wouldn't but if it did, it would be linked to the club.

[Hou]

Charlie, you are fighting a losing battle here!

Mods are a law upon themselves, Steve only cares about his pocket and what he can do to further rake in the money from advertisement, eBay and facebook affiliation, the small amount of people who are falsely led to believe that they need to pay to keep the site going and any other form of income.

Steve, correct me if I am wrong and step in to explain, is the same as any company director that is profit focused. He seems to only care about the bottom line profit, not the members or his 'staff'

You only have to look at how unhappy Les is to see what a shambles it has become on here. The problem is that people will keep coming back, either like yourself and me through an affiliation with the club that comes from years on here, or new members that do not know the old TOC and are happy to settle for the new TOC

JAE could and would have been sorted a long time ago if I had continued arranging it as I did last year but frankly I do not see the point anymore. I mentioned towards the start of the thread about arranging it for the good of the members, not for the good of TOC as a company!

This seems to come about on a yearly basis but instead of sorting the problems we get told how TOC WILL be, which never appears!

[Guest]

Hi guys, I'm New to TOC and I thought I would add some thoughts...

The first thing I noticed when I joined was the sheer lack of people about. I know some forums are absolutely buzzing with members, however that's not always favourable.

I generally linger in the corolla section and have found the few members who participate to be very helpful, friendly and welcoming and im happy to carry on participating.

My second thought is regarding the meets section. I don't see any mention of Santa Pods Jap Show, I may be blind but there's no mention of it at all...... Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this quite a big event?! Me and my mates have a great time there!

That concludes my input. And hopefully I'll still be here when the site rises from the ashes!

[Norfolk n Chance]

Whilst you're not 'having a pop' at anyone you've only quoted my posts on the JAE thread....

The thread was locked because it became very obvious from Stu's comments that he was going with another club at which point things then turned to PM's which gave the impression to organise those that had expressed an interest in going, to go on another clubs stand (I wasn't the only person to get this impression). There's no need for PM's if organising a public event on TOC.

I had no problems organising last years event with Hou but comments made after the event put us both off doing it again this year.

As for 'obstacles' i know Les PM'd Steve who did say he wanted a stand at this years JAE... but i'm not sure what happened after that.

If Steve wants a stand and people want to go on it then the best course of action is for Steve to book a pitch for TOC, paying the minimum £250 up front, then adding the first 10 tickets to the shop to re-coup the initial outlay.

If Steve is prepared to do that then i'll happily help drum up interest

Other than that the idea of TOC being at JAE 2011 is pretty much dead at the moment......

[Karma Supra]

Thanks for your reply Gaz,

I hadnt specifically quoted on your posts alone, merely plucked some of the most unhelpful, or negative comments from the thread. I hadnt set out specifically to seek out any individuals’ responses, nor had I consciously made the link that they were all from the same person. -Thank you for pointing that out. - It is not in my best interest to make this personal, or witch hunt!

We have tried to book something, or get it sorted. The way I see it is that without official” representation or booking, people dont want to put their name down, or when despite numerous efforts to make contact still no official word arrives we are forced to explore the option of using another (made up) name, the thread gets locked.

May I ask Gaz, as a forum mod what the appropriate course of action would be in that situation? – the situation being we have enough registered interest to make a stand, people want to go, but a week on and we have no word from management, do you just leave it to stagnate and fade away, or explore other possibilies? (In this case not using the Toc name)

But from the other side, from a possibly over simplified view, no official thread was started because there didnt appear to be much interest (a guess?)... But any interest registered instigated by someone one other than those that are management is a no go.

I should also add that as far as I know, PMs were all regarding payment. Call me paranoid, but Id certainly not want my payment details on a public forum. –We are getting people to put money into a kitty now, as a financial outlay up front is usually (hopefully) a fair sign of commitment, and actually turning up on the day.

[dangermooser]

The thread was locked because it became very obvious from Stu's comments that he was going with another club at which point things then turned to PM's which gave the impression to organise those that had expressed an interest in going, to go on another clubs stand (I wasn't the only person to get this impression). There's no need for PM's if organising a public event on TOC.

I can see in hindsight now why you think at that time I had already decided to join another club, I hadn't infact decided to go down that route but it was rapidly looking like that was the only option but the decision hadn't been made at that point.

I can tell you now that I would be more than happy to have organised this under the TOC banner as that was the original aim but I was told both publicly and privately that I was wasting my time (or words to that effect) as a paid member it would have been great to get enough people from TOC to attend, despite the knocks that have been received, I hope that in the future TOC can have a presence at high profile meets. I was also told that I shouldn't organise anything without management approval, that is fair enough, but when it became evident that there was no way to contact them and they didn't appear to want to contact me the choices available are to give up or keep fighting..... I chose the latter. I will not use the TOC forum to discuss any aspect of JAE 2011 or to recruit TOC members to our stand as I have said before anyone from TOC who attends JAE are most welcome to come and say hello and join in the fun

[Norfolk n Chance]

Thanks for your reply Gaz,

I hadn’t specifically quoted on your posts alone, merely plucked some of the most unhelpful, or negative comments from the thread. I hadn’t set out specifically to seek out any individual’s’ responses, nor had I consciously made the link that they were all from the same person. -Thank you for pointing that out. - It is not in my best interest to make this personal, or witch hunt!

We have tried to book something, or get it sorted. The way I see it is that without “official”” representation or booking, people don’t want to put their name down, or when despite numerous efforts to make contact still no official word arrives we are forced to explore the option of using another (made up) name, the thread gets locked.

May I ask Gaz, as a forum mod what the appropriate course of action would be in that situation? – the situation being we have enough registered interest to make a stand, people want to go, but a week on and we have no word from management, do you just leave it to stagnate and fade away, or explore other possibilies? (In this case not using the Toc name)

But from the other side, from a possibly over simplified view, no official thread was started because there didn’t appear to be much interest (a guess?)... But any interest registered instigated by someone one other than those that are management is a no go.

I should also add that as far as I know, PMs were all regarding payment. Call me paranoid, but I’d certainly not want my payment details on a public forum. –We are getting people to put money into a kitty now, as a financial outlay up front is usually (hopefully) a fair sign of commitment, and actually turning up on the day.

No offence taken mate.

My comments were meant to be constructive pointing out things that people usually over look.

Arranging a stand under a fake name... no idea. I don't see that being an issue if TOC management were'nt showing any interest.

Dunno what other Mods would think?

[Norfolk n Chance]

The thread was locked because it became very obvious from Stu's comments that he was going with another club at which point things then turned to PM's which gave the impression to organise those that had expressed an interest in going, to go on another clubs stand (I wasn't the only person to get this impression). There's no need for PM's if organising a public event on TOC.

I can see in hindsight now why you think at that time I had already decided to join another club, I hadn't infact decided to go down that route but it was rapidly looking like that was the only option but the decision hadn't been made at that point.

I can tell you now that I would be more than happy to have organised this under the TOC banner as that was the original aim but I was told both publicly and privately that I was wasting my time (or words to that effect) as a paid member it would have been great to get enough people from TOC to attend, despite the knocks that have been received, I hope that in the future TOC can have a presence at high profile meets. I was also told that I shouldn't organise anything without management approval, that is fair enough, but when it became evident that there was no way to contact them and they didn't appear to want to contact me the choices available are to give up or keep fighting..... I chose the latter. I will not use the TOC forum to discuss any aspect of JAE 2011 or to recruit TOC members to our stand as I have said before anyone from TOC who attends JAE are most welcome to come and say hello and join in the fun

I'm not accusing anybody... just saying how it looked, if i hadn't closed it i'm sure somebody else would have.

I can try and contact Steve and get his thought's on TOC @ JAE if people are still wanting to go as TOC.

[Guest]

At the risk of upsetting people as a new boy...

What's the point in speaking the the lovely people in charge?! They clearly don't care about the forum moving forward and promoting itself as a major player in the Jap scene....

Use a fake name. Work under pm's start a revolutiooooooon!!!!!

.fin

[bothwell_buyer]

At the risk of upsetting people as a new boy...

What's the point in speaking the the lovely people in charge?! They clearly don't care about the forum moving forward and promoting itself as a major player in the Jap scene....

Use a fake name. Work under pm's start a revolutiooooooon!!!!!

.fin

Would that revolution need to be south of Cambridge?

I'd have liked to have gone to the JAE meets before but circumstance (ie the car being broken) kinda halted it. I enjoyed going down to Manchester a couple of months ago, although the evidence of anyone from TOC, including me, was missing. There were many different clubs at that meet and all seemed to get on well.

The politics of who organises what.... well, folowing the recent behaviour of another 'group' I quit my membership - the LibDems - due to the behaviour of the leaders. Maybe its just human nature ?

[dawesy]

like i said before if it doesn't carry the TOC name then i cant see a problem with you organising something. the only issue is booking a pitch under TOC's name without management authorisation.

the lack of threads for the other meets is the fact that those who organise the meets a tired of flogging a dead horse.

anyone can organise a meet,its not a mod only thing. the only thing i would say is that if money is changing hands or it is to be associated to TOC then ask management or a mod first before arranging.

[+Steve]

charlie.. i have PM'd you mate.

I am looking in to getting some proper event organisers sorted to help out and get the club back on track. If anyone has a burning desire to be a regional meet organiser then please get in touch.

[Karma Supra]

Thanks Steve.

Replied

[GIDDLEPIN]

A sad response indeed :( if you look at the views to replies ratio on nearly every thread you will see that the interest just isn’t there or it would have showed in the answers received, even this thread with 320 views (at this moment) has only had 14 replies, from nine members with the majority of those the same old die-hards I remember.