Auris Hsd Ev Mode A Bit Slow ?

[CO2SLAVE]

Hi All ,

I have just swopped my company car for an Auris HSD , which I am very pleased with . But I have one gripe ,which admittedly I may be imagining . . . but I would appreciate some advice. The problem is down to the EV mode which I was told to use if possible for the last mile of driving (where appropriate of course) , on my way in to work there is a fairly tight bend ( where I engage EV mode)and then a steep hill , my car seems to really struggle to get up to 30mph whereas the demo car that I tried a few weeks ago seemed to fly up it . Is there a test that the dealer can do to measure the electric motor torque ? The leccy motor should have 60KW and massive torque from low rpms so I cant understand why my car is struggling - it takes about 300-400 yards up the hill to get to 30mph.

Another question- I am correct in saying that the Auris HSD is slightly different to the Prius in that you cannot get the power flow indicators to disappear ( which I have read is 'glide' mode) The Auris is alway showing power flow one way or the other.

[Terry953]

Hi All ,

I have just swopped my company car for an Auris HSD , which I am very pleased with . But I have one gripe ,which admittedly I may be imagining . . . but I would appreciate some advice. The problem is down to the EV mode which I was told to use if possible for the last mile of driving (where appropriate of course) , on my way in to work there is a fairly tight bend ( where I engage EV mode)and then a steep hill , my car seems to really struggle to get up to 30mph whereas the demo car that I tried a few weeks ago seemed to fly up it . Is there a test that the dealer can do to measure the electric motor torque ? The leccy motor should have 60KW and massive torque from low rpms so I cant understand why my car is struggling - it takes about 300-400 yards up the hill to get to 30mph.

Another question- I am correct in saying that the Auris HSD is slightly different to the Prius in that you cannot get the power flow indicators to disappear ( which I have read is 'glide' mode) The Auris is alway showing power flow one way or the other.

Quick reply without going into to much detail, this of course is only from my opinion and experiences, and if my past posts are anything to go by could stir up a wasps nest of invective and controversy.

1. EV mode only works under 20 mph on our Auris's, great for chugging around car parks and the like, anyway it will come in automatically below this speed anyway. Your advised technique is highly flawed.

2. Forget ECON mode as well, it's a bit of a con [sorry about the pun] I think as all it does is electronically to put a lump of rubber under your throttle pedal so you have to push harder to get the same response. On the other hand some people like it as it puts the pedal in a more comfortable position for them.

3. As for PWR forget that as well, I found that by flooring the pedal to overtake or what ever has always given me sufficient power, I liken that to electronically weakening the pedal spring so its easier to depress.

Regarding your observations on the Energy Monitor it depends what you are doing and yes it is differently presented than the Prius [better I Think, but I would say that !] - if braking it should show NO power flow only charging [regenerative braking] from the wheel graphic to the Battery.

In drive situations you get a variety depending on the engine load, like power from both sources on hard acceleration and power needs to flicking from Battery to engine during cruising to only Battery discharge under 20 mph when creeping in traffic.

Oh! another thing forget about the 'B' position unless you are encountering very steep long hills for a fair time. In my 9 months experience I have only felt the need to use this once [in Bath actually]

Proof of my pudding ? Got my best MPG last week of 69.8 for a 22 mile journey so I must be doing something right. Forget the buttons and just drive gently and with good anticipation.

Best of Luck TerryB

[CO2SLAVE]

Hi TerryB ,

thankyou for the information . I will have to reply properly over the weekend but our cars must be different as the (2010 model )Auris definitely can do just over 30mph in EV mode. As far as forgetting econ and power , unless I am missing something there are only 3 modes to chose from - EV, Econ, and Power . I really appreciate your advice and commend your economical driving as 69.8mpg is really doing well - may I ask is that the trip computers figure or are you filling brim to brim?

regards

les

[cbcdesign]

Regarding your observations on the Energy Monitor it depends what you are doing and yes it is differently presented than the Prius [better I Think, but I would say that !] - if braking it should show NO power flow only charging [regenerative braking] from the wheel graphic to the battery.

Best of Luck TerryB

I'm not comvinced because the overall presentation of the driver display in the Prius is a lot better that the Auris (I would say that though wouldn't I?). One of the things I love about the Prius is that it dares to be different and has completely done away with the whole boring concept of instruments that you look at through the steering wheel.

[ashpole]

Hi TerryB ,

thankyou for the information . I will have to reply properly over the weekend but our cars must be different as the (2010 model )Auris definitely can do just over 30mph in EV mode. As far as forgetting econ and power , unless I am missing something there are only 3 modes to chose from - EV, Econ, and Power . I really appreciate your advice and commend your economical driving as 69.8mpg is really doing well - may I ask is that the trip computers figure or are you filling brim to brim?

regards

les

There are four modes: EV, ECO, PWR and Normal: the latter being when none of the first three are selected. If you have ECO mode selected then pressing ECO again will return you to Normal.

I use EV mode to move the car into and out of its garage, but if I forget to disengage it when driving off it normal turns off at about 25 MPH, the speed is dependent on many factors including HV Battery state of charge. But like Terry said, don't bother switching to EV mode in normal driving - if it's at the end of your journey then the car will do it itself if appropriate.

I like ECO mode. In the winter it allows the engine to turn off sooner during warm up - at the expense of my own personal comfort; and the same in the summer with the air conditioning.

You can get all display power lines to turn off at the glide point - which on mine is a whisker above the "idle" position on the "rev" counter. That said, it's a fine transition and easily missed and hard to maintain. The car will glide with the pointer just about the "idle" position.

Terry has had good fuel consumption and beat me to an overall 60+ MPG fill-up, but I hope to match him soon - or I'll just let his tyres down! Oh yes, keep your tyres well inflated!

Mike

[CO2SLAVE]

Hi Guys ,

thankyou for the information, I had no idea that there was a normal mode ( the 500 page owners manual is slightly daunting) so I will look forward to trying it as I find the step between ECO and POWER modes rather large. On the subject of gliding I will try that soon too , but as you say the transition must be really on a fine line and you would have thought I would have found it in ECO mode as the increased throttle travel should make it easier to find . Since gliding is one of the key elements to getting good economy you would think Toyota would have made it clearer on the display to see when you are doing it - maybe that is a future update they could implement.

Having said that I don't think I can use it much as my commute involves some pretty heavy traffic ( A5/A38 at peak times) and I try to maintain a decent pace to prevent holding up other drivers.

Good news on the economy front - my last fill up the trip computer said 65.1mpg the actual mpg was 61.7 so I am pretty happy with that ( not so happy about the trip computer inaccuracy )

On the switching to EV mode at the end of the journey - The information came from the Sales manager at Inchscape and it made sense to me because he said that the Battery loses some charge overnight so if the energy in the Battery is not used you lose some of it.

What do you reckon? - I realise that the ICE then has to charge it up again in the morning but once you are driving there is less time to lose charge.

Also I would be interested in the efficiency of the conversion from kinetic enegy to the hybrid Battery . I bet it is really low probably way less than 60% . So would I be correct in saying it is better to lift off early and glide than braking gently ( hopefully without using brake discs) over a longer distance ?

Thanks again for your inputs

Les

[Terry953]

Hi TerryB ,

thankyou for the information . I will have to reply properly over the weekend but our cars must be different as the (2010 model )Auris definitely can do just over 30mph in EV mode. As far as forgetting econ and power , unless I am missing something there are only 3 modes to chose from - EV, Econ, and Power . I really appreciate your advice and commend your economical driving as 69.8mpg is really doing well - may I ask is that the trip computers figure or are you filling brim to brim?

regards

les

There are four modes: EV, ECO, PWR and Normal: the latter being when none of the first three are selected. If you have ECO mode selected then pressing ECO again will return you to Normal.

I use EV mode to move the car into and out of its garage, but if I forget to disengage it when driving off it normal turns off at about 25 MPH, the speed is dependent on many factors including HV Battery state of charge. But like Terry said, don't bother switching to EV mode in normal driving - if it's at the end of your journey then the car will do it itself if appropriate.

I like ECO mode. In the winter it allows the engine to turn off sooner during warm up - at the expense of my own personal comfort; and the same in the summer with the air conditioning.

You can get all display power lines to turn off at the glide point - which on mine is a whisker above the "idle" position on the "rev" counter. That said, it's a fine transition and easily missed and hard to maintain. The car will glide with the pointer just about the "idle" position.

Terry has had good fuel consumption and beat me to an overall 60+ MPG fill-up, but I hope to match him soon - or I'll just let his tyres down! Oh yes, keep your tyres well inflated!

Mike

Hi Co2slave

OMG, must try and keep up with this.

There are no different models of Auris yet, mine and yours came out June or July 2010 so are the same.

The 69.8 mpg was a I trip recorded over a 22 miles as stated.

My best tank to tank stands at 63.7 mpg that I attained in April [Hot Weather very relevant] refer to my published records at :--- http://www.fuelly.com/driver/terrymb/auris when I was on holiday.

Ashpole’s comments are always valid and I have found him/her to always be very objective and relevant [take serious notes - and YES tyre pressures and engine oil are vital factors].

Re - ECO mode, it’s a matter of choice, but I forgot the advantage of it in icy/snowy conditions, Ashpole’s council prevails, and I bow to his knowledge as I don’t go out in these conditions, being retired I have the choice.

Oh! As for ‘cbcdesign’ !! he/she must be on some other planet - [Prius Planet]

You always get one or two of them poking into Auris matters that they don‘t understand, where are their instruments then screwed to the roof ?

Ask them how they do handbrake turns. [i know, being silly now - but I would like an explanation, they even have trouble selecting ‘N‘ to ‘D’ at traffic lights ! something about dancing on pedals ??]

You can only experiment and try to achieve my figures if mpg is your priority, only do it now when the weather is warm, ambient temperature is critical and you can’t do anything about that all our mpg’s will go down in September.

Oh! One last tip for to-night, also forget the ‘P’ button, when you press START to switch off ???? The Park situation is automatically engaged, another totaly superfluous feature.

Cheers Terry B

[Terry953]

Hi Guys ,

thankyou for the information, I had no idea that there was a normal mode ( the 500 page owners manual is slightly daunting) so I will look forward to trying it as I find the step between ECO and POWER modes rather large. On the subject of gliding I will try that soon too , but as you say the transition must be really on a fine line and you would have thought I would have found it in ECO mode as the increased throttle travel should make it easier to find . Since gliding is one of the key elements to getting good economy you would think Toyota would have made it clearer on the display to see when you are doing it - maybe that is a future update they could implement.

Having said that I don't think I can use it much as my commute involves some pretty heavy traffic ( A5/A38 at peak times) and I try to maintain a decent pace to prevent holding up other drivers.

Good news on the economy front - my last fill up the trip computer said 65.1mpg the actual mpg was 61.7 so I am pretty happy with that ( not so happy about the trip computer inaccuracy )

On the switching to EV mode at the end of the journey - The information came from the Sales manager at Inchscape and it made sense to me because he said that the battery loses some charge overnight so if the energy in the battery is not used you lose some of it.

What do you reckon? - I realise that the ICE then has to charge it up again in the morning but once you are driving there is less time to lose charge.

Also I would be interested in the efficiency of the conversion from kinetic enegy to the hybrid battery . I bet it is really low probably way less than 60% . So would I be correct in saying it is better to lift off early and glide than braking gently ( hopefully without using brake discs) over a longer distance ?

Thanks again for your inputs

Les

LES Get A Grip

You are getting too stressed out about all this, don't worry about the technical’s - you have paid £XXXX for your Auris - Toyota have sorted the technology over around 11 years and it works as I have proved and tried to inform you.

You have got good MPG results as well for a newbie so you're an the right track,[keep it up and you'll better Ashpole]

Just forget all the buttons/ pulsing and gliding / ect-ect and just drive as you did to get your 65.1mpg or 61.7. I wish I had got that on my first thankful.

AHH! Salesman's waffle - Disregard utterly - Totally ignore - mine told me the Auris transmission was based on the old DAF CVT principle ??

Good Night TerryB

[ashpole]

Hi Guys ,

thankyou for the information, I had no idea that there was a normal mode ( the 500 page owners manual is slightly daunting) so I will look forward to trying it as I find the step between ECO and POWER modes rather large. On the subject of gliding I will try that soon too , but as you say the transition must be really on a fine line and you would have thought I would have found it in ECO mode as the increased throttle travel should make it easier to find . Since gliding is one of the key elements to getting good economy you would think Toyota would have made it clearer on the display to see when you are doing it - maybe that is a future update they could implement.

Having said that I don't think I can use it much as my commute involves some pretty heavy traffic ( A5/A38 at peak times) and I try to maintain a decent pace to prevent holding up other drivers.

Good news on the economy front - my last fill up the trip computer said 65.1mpg the actual mpg was 61.7 so I am pretty happy with that ( not so happy about the trip computer inaccuracy )

On the switching to EV mode at the end of the journey - The information came from the Sales manager at Inchscape and it made sense to me because he said that the battery loses some charge overnight so if the energy in the battery is not used you lose some of it.

What do you reckon? - I realise that the ICE then has to charge it up again in the morning but once you are driving there is less time to lose charge.

Also I would be interested in the efficiency of the conversion from kinetic enegy to the hybrid battery . I bet it is really low probably way less than 60% . So would I be correct in saying it is better to lift off early and glide than braking gently ( hopefully without using brake discs) over a longer distance ?

Thanks again for your inputs

Les

Take note of what Terry said, it's good advice, just drive it! Toyota have refined the HSD so that the vast majority of people can get good fuel consumption without really trying. Yes, you can get better fuel consumption with some effort (and might I say some renewed driving fun!) but get used to the car first - and based on what you're getting your doing well.

The Sales Manager was either talking BS or over egged a point. My Auris wasn't driven for 39 days recently (due to me, not the car!) and the HV Battery charge was exactly where I'd left it, the car powered up just like normal.

On kinetic energy conversion. When you lift off the accelerator, or apply braking up to when the disc brakes are actuated (when the rev counter reaches the bottom of the scale) kinetic energy recovery will occur. I don't know the efficiency rate but you have a boatload of energy to get rid of, so a lot still reaches the Battery (which is more easily charged when warm than cold). Watch the power display and you'll see just how fast it'll fill the Battery, but it will rarely reach full-up, it's designed to slow the charge as it reaches full.

And watch out for these OAP comments! Terry and I are both retired but you have to have an aim in life don't you? Mine is to beat Terry's best tank!

Enjoy!

Mike

PS Consider joining us on fuelly.com

[Opifex]

..............

On the switching to EV mode at the end of the journey - The information came from the Sales manager at Inchscape and it made sense to me because he said that the battery loses some charge overnight so if the energy in the battery is not used you lose some of it.

What do you reckon? - I realise that the ICE then has to charge it up again in the morning but once you are driving there is less time to lose charge.

'''''''''''''''

.........

AHH! Salesman's waffle - Disregard utterly - Totally ignore - mine told me the Auris transmission was based on the old DAF CVT principle ??

............

Waffle?? I’m afraid my reaction was something more like “what utter rubbish” Yes the Battery will lose charge overnight but the amount is small and due mainly to the fact that the Battery is colder in the morning than when you park it. Once it has cooled the rate of loss is reduced. Deliberately emptying the Battery before you park it will not change matters a great deal except, of course, if there is no charge in the battery there will be nothing to lose. On the other hand if the battery is low in the morning (as a result of emptying it the night before) the ICE will have to recharge it when both the battery and ICE are cold and therefore least efficient.

I only use EV when I need to move the car out of the garage and don’t want the ICE to start. The manual warns that the car will automatically give the best economy and using EV may reduce the ecomony not improve it.

As for what mode to choose, I started off using ECO but found the slow throttle response very frustrating so gave up and just leave it in Normal for most of the time. I haven’t noticed that the mpg is any worse. I also use Power if I am going to need good response such as for pulling out onto a fast road, or when I have a full car and travelling in a hilly area.

My best ever consumption in the Prius was 80 mpg on a 50mile journey but the conditions were ideal – warm day, light traffic, not too many hills, a steady speed of about 55mph with slow cruising through a number of villages. On the other hand, I am looking forward to being disappointed when I next fill up as the indicator is only showing 56mpg after about 400 miles under the worst condition for getting a good mpg – a long trip on the motorway carrying four adults at about 75mph and lots of local trips of a few miles when the battery and ICE don’t get a chance to warm up completely.

As others have said, don’t get too obsessed about consumption. Just drive gently and let the car do its thing and you will get good mpg automatically. I get depressed if I don’t get 60mpg and then remind myself that a few months ago I thought 32mpg was good in the old car. It’s all a matter of keeping it in proportion.

[CO2SLAVE]

Hi Guys

firstly thankyou for your considered replies;

Terry - I am not getting stressed really but in my albeit limited experience ( at the grand old age of 43)

I think that it is good to know how things work then you know how to get the best from them. I tried the normal mode today and I think it is ideal for normal motoring so that is definitely good advice, thanks for the tip on just pressing the power button but I had by chance found that . It really is such an easy car just to jump in and drive - It doesnt ask for much at all .

Ashpole - thanks for the sage counsel I will leave the EV button alone

Opifex - as above really , the salesman was obviously talking out of his rear end .

To all - I will chill and let the car do its thing and remember that anything over 45mpg is money in the bank!!

[CO2SLAVE]

Terry -I just read back my message -sorry to confuse when I said power button I meant start button :)

[Terry953]

Hi Guys

I think that it is good to know how things work then you know how to get the best from them.

Now you have the message, only to glad to assist.

I heartily agree with your sentiments re.'knowing how things work' one of my favourite philosophies which I took further by saying "then you can work out how to fix/repair it".

This I tried to instil into my students when I was teaching [Heavy Vehicle Repair & Maintenance]. Not that I would recommend DIY on your Auris but follow this link:-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive for a good introduction into HSD theory/practice, then if you need more then Google 'Hybrid Synergy Drive'

That will keep you out of the pub for a few nights!!!

All the best TerryB

[sparkymarky2]

Slightly off topic, but along the theme of how things work, I found this video on you tube the other day.

I'm not sure if its been posted before but it's certainly worth another view!

Thanks

Mark

[Opifex]

Slightly off topic, but along the theme of how things work, I found this video on you tube the other day.

I'm not sure if its been posted before but it's certainly worth another view!

Thanks

Mark

Thanks Sparky.

I've come across a few explanantions of the Prius on the web but that is definitely the most detailed and easiest to follow.