Think It's The Clutch.. Any Recommendations ?

[wilson1973]

I have a 2003 2.0 d4d t-spirit (its the mk2 avensis on the chnage over year). Had it 18 months trouble free..

Anyway yesterday in the morning I was going up a hill and I lost power for no more than a second although it did rev hi then return to normal. I thought that I must have gone over some deisel spill or something at the time and experienced wheel spin.

On the way home tonight however I could hardly get up one of the hills had to drop it down several times. Seemed fine at relatively low revs. No power at all. Nursed it home gently and at stand still there was a very weird almost metallic hot smell. Oil levels are fine, nothing is over heating.

In 20 years of driving I've never known or experienced anything like it. Needless to say I have spent this evening looking it up and it sounds very much like a clutch issue !

I've also just read the horror stories of circa £1500 from dealerships. I assume that this is for the clutch and dual mass flywheel ?

So my question. Can anyone recommend any reasonable clutch specialists that aren't going to rip me off ?

I'm based between Bath / Bristol and work in West Wilts.

What is the best guess on non-dealership prices at current rates ?

Thanks

[Druid Boy]

Sounds like the clutch to me. Simple way to test it is to select 1st gear and, with the handbrake firmly applied, engage the clutch as if you were going to pull away. The engine should stall quickly, if the clutch slips and the engine doesn't stall straight away then your clutch either needs adjustment (unlikely) or has worn out (more likely, fairly pricey but unavoidable).

Consider genuine Toyota parts and a specialist rather than a dealer.

Good luck.

[Pat2u]

Have you done a second gear test with hand brake on, if so did it try to stall or try to pull away ?

[wilson1973]

Thanks for coming back to me.

I will try the stationary / pull away test tomorrow in first / second and report back.

Can you recommend the best place to get genuine toyota parts ?

Trouble is I'm guessing I wouldn't know which parts to order and wouldn't want to order things that I didn't need. I see some clutch kits with DMF, I also see slave / master cylinders and clutch plates. Would I need to order it all ...

No idea !

[wilson1973]

Thanks for coming back to me.

I will try the stationary / pull away test tomorrow in first / second and report back.

Can you recommend the best place to get genuine toyota parts ?

Trouble is I'm guessing I wouldn't know which parts to order and wouldn't want to order things that I didn't need. I see some clutch kits with DMF, I also see slave / master cylinders and clutch plates. Would I need to order it all ...

No idea !

I've just done the clutch test... it didn't stall at all !!!

OK I need seom recomendations for toyota specialists near Bristol / Bath please ???

[Cyker]

Because of the labour costs, most people replace all the clutch parts (Plate, bearing, spring/cover, slave cylinder) rather than just one bit and then end up paying all the labour costs again to replace another bit months down the road.

If you can engage the clutch while braked and not stall the clutch deffo needs replacing; Do you have any garages near you with good reps? Get some quotes maybe...

[wilson1973]

Because of the labour costs, most people replace all the clutch parts (Plate, bearing, spring/cover, slave cylinder) rather than just one bit and then end up paying all the labour costs again to replace another bit months down the road.

If you can engage the clutch while braked and not stall the clutch deffo needs replacing; Do you have any garages near you with good reps? Get some quotes maybe...

Spent a few hours looking up prices for the parts. It would appear that most manufacturers use the LUK or Valeo clutches. I found a few places, here are my findings:

Europarts:

Clutch Kit: £178

Dual Mass FlyWheel: £366

Total: £544 (including VAT)

There is an online discount code valid until July for 15% off. This brings it down to £462 including delivery. Optional next day for £3.50.

Buypartsby:

Clutch Kit: £101

Dual Mass FlyWheel: £248

Total: £420.24 (including VAT)

No discount code available. Delivery £7.50 extra. Will need to phone for next day delivery charges (Monday).

Slave cylinder is circa £30.

I've read that its probably foolish not to replace the fly wheel and the clutch assembly at the same time. I've not managed to understand whether it's necessary to replace the slave cylinder as well though. Would this potentially reduce the life of the other two elements if not replaced ?

I have managed to find online recommendations for two local(ish) garages. Brixey Auto Repairs, Midsomer Norton and First Choice Toyota Specialists, Warmley.

Unfortunately neither were available today (weekend) so will see what quotes I get on Monday, with and without parts.

Like all things this was not a forecast cost, so am looking for the best all round competitive solution.

Am I correct in assuming that I am looking at circa 6 hours labour for this replacement (clutch kit and DMF) ?

[Cyker]

The flyhweel is NOT necessary to replace unless it is damaged or worn, esp. given the cost of it.

Caveat, I'm not sure in the case of the DMF as they have a much higher failure rate than solid flywheels so it may be recommended in that case.

The mechanics I've spoken to generally recommend the slave cylinder replaced at the same time (It's a lot cheaper than the flywheel!) but I don't know how necessary that really is...

[wilson1973]

The flyhweel is NOT necessary to replace unless it is damaged or worn, esp. given the cost of it.

Caveat, I'm not sure in the case of the DMF as they have a much higher failure rate than solid flywheels so it may be recommended in that case.

The mechanics I've spoken to generally recommend the slave cylinder replaced at the same time (It's a lot cheaper than the flywheel!) but I don't know how necessary that really is...

Hi Cyker.

I was merely going on what I spent all day reading yesterday. Mines at 78k so would expect some wear in all elements of the clutch. Given that I could smell that metallic burning smell (clutch burn) I would assume that there was an element of overheating in the clutch / DMF, which in turn could have lead to warping.

It's a car I am having to keep for a few years so would not want to just do half a job and risk burning out the clutch again due to not replacing the DMF in the first place.

I guess it's all speculation until it's stripped down.

Will await the conversations with the garage tomorrow, will update this thread though and give the garages opinions / findings. Hope some people find this useful !

Cheers

[Cyker]

Burning clutches that I've smelled tend to have a sort of chemical smell not unlike drying epoxy resin, so if there's a metallic edge to it it may well be the DMF needs changing; I'm by no means an expert!

I just tend to burn my clutches up because I'm always stuck in start stop traffic (Or worse, start-stop traffic up a steep hill! )

A problem with DMFs that I've read about are they tend to accumulate a lot of spoil from the springs rubbing and are much more vulnerable to overheating than solid DMFs, but I've never owned a car with one so I shouldn't really comment .

But keep us updated! :)

[t-spiritpete]

The flyhweel is NOT necessary to replace unless it is damaged or worn, esp. given the cost of it.

Caveat, I'm not sure in the case of the DMF as they have a much higher failure rate than solid flywheels so it may be recommended in that case.

The mechanics I've spoken to generally recommend the slave cylinder replaced at the same time (It's a lot cheaper than the flywheel!) but I don't know how necessary that really is...

Hi Cyker.

I was merely going on what I spent all day reading yesterday. Mines at 78k so would expect some wear in all elements of the clutch. Given that I could smell that metallic burning smell (clutch burn) I would assume that there was an element of overheating in the clutch / DMF, which in turn could have lead to warping.

It's a car I am having to keep for a few years so would not want to just do half a job and risk burning out the clutch again due to not replacing the DMF in the first place.

I guess it's all speculation until it's stripped down.

Will await the conversations with the garage tomorrow, will update this thread though and give the garages opinions / findings. Hope some people find this useful !

Cheers

Hi mate, I don't want to throw a spanner in the works here but you can fit a solid flywheel/ clutch assembley kit instead of a DMF/clutch assembley kit which would work out a lot cheaper and more reliable in the long term ...... I believe Toyota can supply one offering the same warranty.

Pete.

[wilson1973]

The flyhweel is NOT necessary to replace unless it is damaged or worn, esp. given the cost of it.

Caveat, I'm not sure in the case of the DMF as they have a much higher failure rate than solid flywheels so it may be recommended in that case.

The mechanics I've spoken to generally recommend the slave cylinder replaced at the same time (It's a lot cheaper than the flywheel!) but I don't know how necessary that really is...

Hi Cyker.

I was merely going on what I spent all day reading yesterday. Mines at 78k so would expect some wear in all elements of the clutch. Given that I could smell that metallic burning smell (clutch burn) I would assume that there was an element of overheating in the clutch / DMF, which in turn could have lead to warping.

It's a car I am having to keep for a few years so would not want to just do half a job and risk burning out the clutch again due to not replacing the DMF in the first place.

I guess it's all speculation until it's stripped down.

Will await the conversations with the garage tomorrow, will update this thread though and give the garages opinions / findings. Hope some people find this useful !

Cheers

Hi mate, I don't want to throw a spanner in the works here but you can fit a solid flywheel/ clutch assembley kit instead of a DMF/clutch assembley kit which would work out a lot cheaper and more reliable in the long term ...... I believe Toyota can supply one offering the same warranty.

Pete.

Thanks for the information. I have been looking at solid fly wheel kits although cannot seem to find any for the 03 - 09 models. I see loads for the 99 - 03 but I don't think this helps me.

[wilson1973]

OK so this morning I have spoken to 2 independents, a franchise and the main dealer.

The main dealer who by the way was due to receive this car tomorrow for a full service was very happy to give me a discount on the clutch replacement.

Main dealer quoted me £660 to replace the clutch... then found out that did not include the flywheel. They wanted £628 for the flywheel without fitting.

Explained to him that I could get the parts all in for circa £440. Deathly quiet on the phone, they then told me that I would get inferior parts. I then told him I would be getting the same parts as they are fitting - LUK ! again deathly quiet, before him then admitting defeat !

I've then had an indepenet quote me £1026 exlcuding VAT for parts and fitting. They would however let me supply parts and quoted 6.5 hours to fit.

Lastly the other independent quoted me £197 for fitting only. Was very understanding on the phone. We were both honest with each other from the outset. I told him the price I could get the parts for online and said if he was close I would go with him. Anyway he came back to me within an hour and we ensured that it was the correct model I was buying for etc. The short end of it was that I could get it for £300 less than he could. He also advised on purchasing the flywheel bolt set as the threads can get damaged so replacements can be necessary.

I have now ordered the parts now on next day. They are going to start on Wednesday and I should have it back on Thursday. I went with Eurocarparts in the end as I got 15% off with voucher code CLUTCH15 (valid until 01/07/2011) which saved £80 or more.

Both independents came highly recommended from online reviews. The franchise just put me through to several phones that rang off. I gave them my details to call back and have heard nothing in 3 hours.

I will update you after the replacement and then tell you who I went with :-)

[Cyker]

Nice! :)

[Mistermena]

This might be a bit late now. But there are some genuine Toyota clutch kits for sale on eBay atm with DMF all brand nw and boxed. One had a starting price of £280 but no one bought it. And another is on there for £200. I'm not sure if its the correct one for your car or not...

Item number: 230634221617 with 2 hours to go

[Mistermena]

Sold for £200! Bargin. If I hadn't bought one off Anch's I would have had it myself. So who was the lucky guy off here then?

[andye]

OK so this morning I have spoken to 2 independents, a franchise and the main dealer.

The main dealer who by the way was due to receive this car tomorrow for a full service was very happy to give me a discount on the clutch replacement.

Main dealer quoted me £660 to replace the clutch... then found out that did not include the flywheel. They wanted £628 for the flywheel without fitting.

Explained to him that I could get the parts all in for circa £440. Deathly quiet on the phone, they then told me that I would get inferior parts. I then told him I would be getting the same parts as they are fitting - LUK ! again deathly quiet, before him then admitting defeat !

I've then had an indepenet quote me £1026 exlcuding VAT for parts and fitting. They would however let me supply parts and quoted 6.5 hours to fit.

Lastly the other independent quoted me £197 for fitting only. Was very understanding on the phone. We were both honest with each other from the outset. I told him the price I could get the parts for online and said if he was close I would go with him. Anyway he came back to me within an hour and we ensured that it was the correct model I was buying for etc. The short end of it was that I could get it for £300 less than he could. He also advised on purchasing the flywheel bolt set as the threads can get damaged so replacements can be necessary.

I have now ordered the parts now on next day. They are going to start on Wednesday and I should have it back on Thursday. I went with Eurocarparts in the end as I got 15% off with voucher code CLUTCH15 (valid until 01/07/2011) which saved £80 or more.

Both independents came highly recommended from online reviews. The franchise just put me through to several phones that rang off. I gave them my details to call back and have heard nothing in 3 hours.

I will update you after the replacement and then tell you who I went with :-)

hello buddy , i,m sure the perts are available to fit a solid flywheel . i done mine 2 years ago cost £400 for flywheel and cluch assy . had no probs with it . dmf,s are to weak and costly .

[wilson1973]

OK so this morning I have spoken to 2 independents, a franchise and the main dealer.

The main dealer who by the way was due to receive this car tomorrow for a full service was very happy to give me a discount on the clutch replacement.

Main dealer quoted me £660 to replace the clutch... then found out that did not include the flywheel. They wanted £628 for the flywheel without fitting.

Explained to him that I could get the parts all in for circa £440. Deathly quiet on the phone, they then told me that I would get inferior parts. I then told him I would be getting the same parts as they are fitting - LUK ! again deathly quiet, before him then admitting defeat !

I've then had an indepenet quote me £1026 exlcuding VAT for parts and fitting. They would however let me supply parts and quoted 6.5 hours to fit.

Lastly the other independent quoted me £197 for fitting only. Was very understanding on the phone. We were both honest with each other from the outset. I told him the price I could get the parts for online and said if he was close I would go with him. Anyway he came back to me within an hour and we ensured that it was the correct model I was buying for etc. The short end of it was that I could get it for £300 less than he could. He also advised on purchasing the flywheel bolt set as the threads can get damaged so replacements can be necessary.

I have now ordered the parts now on next day. They are going to start on Wednesday and I should have it back on Thursday. I went with Eurocarparts in the end as I got 15% off with voucher code CLUTCH15 (valid until 01/07/2011) which saved £80 or more.

Both independents came highly recommended from online reviews. The franchise just put me through to several phones that rang off. I gave them my details to call back and have heard nothing in 3 hours.

I will update you after the replacement and then tell you who I went with :-)

hello buddy , i,m sure the perts are available to fit a solid flywheel . i done mine 2 years ago cost £400 for flywheel and cluch assy . had no probs with it . dmf,s are to weak and costly .

Cheers mate. went with DMF in the end. None of the garages I went to recommended going for the solid flywheel due to additional vibration put through the engine. Anyway managed to get the parts and its been replaced now. All good.

[wilson1973]

OK,

So today I got my car back... hooorah !

In the end I went to a nice independent garage in Coleford, Between Bath and Frome. I supplied the parts (LUK from eurocarparts), the owner was happy for me to do this, he admitted that he could not get close to the price. He quoted me for labour only and the replacement with gear box oil replacement came in at £280. A good deal better than the labour from the main dealer.

The garage is Brixey Auto Repairs (behind the Bosch road sign in the middle of Coleford).

I cannot fault their service. I arrived with my car on a trailer and my parts onboard on Wednesday afternoon. Nick checked the parts and was happy with them and I left the car. What I observed was an impeccably clean and very organised looking garage - always a good sign! Anyway yesterday I had a call and Nick wanted to bring to my attention a scratch on the lower valance, (one that had recently happened and that I was aware of), I guess to cover his back, but a nice touch I thought - attention to detail and all that.

I never knew about this garage before, and was pleased to find out that they have courtesy cars on offer - again a nice touch from an independent.

My car is due a service shortly - something that will have to wait until next pay day. Needless to say I will be taking it back their.

I did not go with the solid mass flywheel in the end. All of the garages I approached advised against this - excessive engine vibrations and knocking and all that, didn't sound like the best solution to me.

Anyway I am now in control of the car and how it is driven - with no previous owners to blame, so lets see how this clutch gets on !

Good luck to all and thanks to those who offered advice along the way.

[t-spiritpete]

OK,

So today I got my car back... hooorah !

In the end I went to a nice independent garage in Coleford, Between Bath and Frome. I supplied the parts (LUK from eurocarparts), the owner was happy for me to do this, he admitted that he could not get close to the price. He quoted me for labour only and the replacement with gear box oil replacement came in at £280. A good deal better than the labour from the main dealer.

The garage is Brixey Auto Repairs (behind the bosch road sign in the middle of Coleford).

I cannot fault their service. I arrived with my car on a trailer and my parts onboard on Wednesday afternoon. Nick checked the parts and was happy with them and I left the car. What I observed was an impeccably clean and very organised looking garage - always a good sign! Anyway yesterday I had a call and Nick wanted to bring to my attention a scratch on the lower valance, (one that had recently happened and that I was aware of), I guess to cover his back, but a nice touch I thought - attention to detail and all that.

I never knew about this garage before, and was pleased to find out that they have courtesy cars on offer - again a nice touch from an independent.

My car is due a service shortly - something that will have to wait until next pay day. Needless to say I will be taking it back their.

I did not go with the solid mass flywheel in the end. All of the garages I approached advised against this - excessive engine vibrations and knocking and all that, didn't sound like the best solution to me.

Anyway I am now in control of the car and how it is driven - with no previous owners to blame, so lets see how this clutch gets on !

Good luck to all and thanks to those who offered advice along the way.

Hi mate, it's always nice to hear of a good result .

Pete.

[Dashfield]

Both independents came highly recommended from online reviews. The franchise just put me through to several phones that rang off. I gave them my details to call back and have heard nothing in 3 hours.

I will update you after the replacement and then tell you who I went with :-)

Can you tell me who the highly recommended independents are?

I need to get my clutch replaced on my 2003 1.8 T3 and I live around Bristol. I've phoned a few places for quotes and the cheapest by far is Mr Clutch in Bristol at £265 all in. But that's just the clutch kit, not including the flywheel. But i guess as mine's petrol that the flywheel might not be such a problem.

But I've never used Mr Clutch before and I've read varying reviews, so would be interested in some other options.