Ethanol Enhanced Fuel

[Opifex]

In January I raised the topic of ethanol in petrol and the effect it had on my Prius.

To recap, I had bought the car in December and was looking forward to testing the mpg on the long trip through France to Provence. By chance, the first petrol station I came to only stocked SP95-E10. In case you haven’t come across it, this is 10% ethanol added to standard 95 octane petrol and is being introduced across Europe. As I had often used it in my previous car I was quite happy to put it in the Prius but the effect was disastrous. Mpg dropped to an indicated 49 and the car was very sluggish and struggled up hills. After 350 miles I pulled into a service station and put in 20 ltr of normal 95 octane. The power was immediately restored and over the next 50 miles of very hilly terrain the indicated mpg rose to 52mpg.

Since this incident I have avoided SP95-E10 and either drive to the next petrol station or fill up with 98 octane which doesn’t carry as large a price premium in France as it does in the UK.

I would be interested to know whether anyone else has experience of ethanol enhanced fuel and whether they found the same effect as I did. In the meantime I would recommend that if you are going to Europe this summer you ensure that you only use normal 95 octane fuel which is still readily available. Confusingly, in France many service station sell both SP95-E10 and normal 95 octane and both have green hoses.

[Thrawn60]

Hey,

I had not felt the same problem. Here in Thailand they have Gasohol 95 which is the same as 95 E10. When I got the car I asked Toyota if there was any recommendation towards what kind of fuel I should use. They simply told me anything over Octane 92, and no problems with Gasohol.

Now since my company is paying for my fuel I have tried different types to see if I can get some sort of local test done on this, and I feel no difference between regular 95 and Gasohol 95, I do though feel a difference between Shell and the local PTT. It seems like Shell lasts longer :)

I have now been driving almost 3300 miles in the short time I had the car, and been through 8 tanks of fuel, so I don't know with the long term use of Gasohol will at some point trigger some problems or loss of power.

Just my observation from here :)

[cootuk]

Maybe you had a batch that was a bad blend?

iirc I saw some test results somewhere that some E10 blends were well over 10%

[Jan&tone]

Maybe the Prius in France etc has been adjusted to take into account the different fuels as cars here were when unleaded first came in?

Not a tecchie person so I don't know, but maybe it's a possibility....

[ColinEL]

Maybe the Prius in France etc has been adjusted to take into account the different fuels as cars here were when unleaded first came in?

Not a tecchie person so I don't know, but maybe it's a possibility....

Hi all

Thought I would chip in, as I posted a short while ago, I have recently been to France, I filled up ,at a super market and got over 400 miles from the tank full of petrol, also last June again in France in My 1964 MGB, people said it would run hot and would be trouble, again not a problem.

ColinEL

[Opifex]

Hi all

Thought I would chip in, as I posted a short while ago, I have recently been to France, I filled up ,at a super market and got over 400 miles from the tank full of petrol, also last June again in France in My 1964 MGB, people said it would run hot and would be trouble, again not a problem.

ColinEL

I am assuming you filled up with SP95-E10 in both cases.

It would be interesting to know what mpg you got in the Prius - depending just how close to empty the tank was at the end of 400 miles the mpg could be down to 41mpg.

I had a 1998 Saab that ran quite happily whatever fuel I used. The only time I found any difference was that it was smoother and more powerful when I treated myself to a tank of Shell V-Power.

As no-one has reported any difficulties with the ethanol stuff I'll try putting in a small amount and see what happens.

Thanks guys.

[ColinEL]

Hi all

Thought I would chip in, as I posted a short while ago, I have recently been to France, I filled up ,at a super market and got over 400 miles from the tank full of petrol, also last June again in France in My 1964 MGB, people said it would run hot and would be trouble, again not a problem.

ColinEL

I am assuming you filled up with SP95-E10 in both cases.

It would be interesting to know what mpg you got in the Prius - depending just how close to empty the tank was at the end of 400 miles the mpg could be down to 41mpg.

I had a 1998 Saab that ran quite happily whatever fuel I used. The only time I found any difference was that it was smoother and more powerful when I treated myself to a tank of Shell V-Power.

As no-one has reported any difficulties with the ethanol stuff I'll try putting in a small amount and see what happens.

Thanks guys.

Hi.

I put 31 litres in in France, I had done 300 miles when I got home, then another 90 miles local, I had a 5 pence per litre off from Tescos, so filled up before it was empty with 35 litres, as I read it, there was still 10 litres in the tank, the milage I returned was 56 mpg.

ColinEL

[Cyker]

In theory, bioethanol mixes have less energy content than just petrol, but as they raise the octane level engines with knock sensors can adjust their ignition timing to extract more energy from it so it should balance out.

The biggest problems with bioethanol are that 1) It isn't like petrol so if you try and run a car on pure bioethanol it'll probably choke, and 2) It tends to hang onto water and create a sludge that will fall to the bottom of the tank if it's allowed to settle. It's also very corrosive (Not such a big problem for us, but it will eat plastics, non-synthetic rubber, and will destroy a 2-stroke motor if it hasn't been designed to run on bioethanol!)

[Thrawn60]

In theory, bioethanol mixes have less energy content than just petrol, but as they raise the octane level engines with knock sensors can adjust their ignition timing to extract more energy from it so it should balance out.

The biggest problems with bioethanol are that 1) It isn't like petrol so if you try and run a car on pure bioethanol it'll probably choke, and 2) It tends to hang onto water and create a sludge that will fall to the bottom of the tank if it's allowed to settle. It's also very corrosive (Not such a big problem for us, but it will eat plastics, non-synthetic rubber, and will destroy a 2-stroke motor if it hasn't been designed to run on bioethanol!)

Oh yeah that is right... The prius has this bladder tank like formula one racers right?

[johalareewi]

Oh yeah that is right... The prius has this bladder tank like formula one racers right?

Only on the gen2 in the USA.

[cbcdesign]

400 miles from a tank is not very good in my opinion and a long way short of the sort of figures I would expect on decent runs. I get 400 to a tank doing silly little 1 mile local trips!

[Jan&tone]

400 miles from a tank is not very good in my opinion and a long way short of the sort of figures I would expect on decent runs. I get 400 to a tank doing silly little 1 mile local trips!

ecky thump!!! 400 miles from a tank - that's disgusting - have you the right oil onboard??? see my posts in the 'short journy misinformation' thread....

I would be disappointed if I got less than 275 from half a tank (never let it go below half for personal reasons)

[ColinEL]

400 miles from a tank is not very good in my opinion and a long way short of the sort of figures I would expect on decent runs. I get 400 to a tank doing silly little 1 mile local trips!

ecky thump!!! 400 miles from a tank - that's disgusting - have you the right oil onboard??? see my posts in the 'short journy misinformation' thread....

I would be disappointed if I got less than 275 from half a tank (never let it go below half for personal reasons)

Hi

Read your opinions, and thought about it. I had 390 mlies on the clock with 10 litres still in the tack, whats 10 litres, 2 gallons, at 50+ to the gallon it was doing that would would make it 500 to the tank full, thats ok by me, twice what I was getting from my XJ8.

ColinEL

[dwilson]

400 miles from a tank is not very good in my opinion and a long way short of the sort of figures I would expect on decent runs. I get 400 to a tank doing silly little 1 mile local trips!

ecky thump!!! 400 miles from a tank - that's disgusting - have you the right oil onboard??? see my posts in the 'short journy misinformation' thread....

I would be disappointed if I got less than 275 from half a tank (never let it go below half for personal reasons)

Hi

Read your opinions, and thought about it. I had 390 mlies on the clock with 10 litres still in the tack, whats 10 litres, 2 gallons, at 50+ to the gallon it was doing that would would make it 500 to the tank full, thats ok by me, twice what I was getting from my XJ8.

ColinEL

I agree with you all !

I have a Gen 2 and just looked at Fuelly to be sure but I nearly always fill up between 300 and 400 miles. The most was 460 miles. The tank is far from empty but I like to have plenty in reserve. The second half of the fuel gauge also looks like it disappears much quicker than the first half. Indeed it doesn't shift at all for at least the first 100 miles.

My 50+ mpg is also a great improvement on my 3 litre Subaru which would struggle to get 25 mpg on superunleaded.

David

[Cyker]

Twice the driven wheels but half the mpg!