7 Year Extended Warranty Question

[catseye27]

Hi Everyone

Wished i had joined this forum before i purchased my 2007 diesel XT-R. Lots of info here, some a bit scary.

Questions:

Is there a danger my year engine requires one of these rebuilds talked about. How do i tell if my engine has a problem. What work is actually carried out on this engine rebuild.

Heard a lot about Toyota and 7 year extended warranty. Does my vehicle fit into this catagory.

I konw Toyota do a no quibble 30 day/500 mile exchange. My wife and I really like the RAV4 but if my year model could be trouble ahead would look into changing for a newer D-Cat model, which i believe is an updated engine, under this 30 day exchange scheme.

Thanks for any advice given here

[anchorman]

Hi Everyone

Wished i had joined this forum before i purchased my 2007 diesel XT-R. Lots of info here, some a bit scary.

Questions:

Is there a danger my year engine requires one of these rebuilds talked about. How do i tell if my engine has a problem. What work is actually carried out on this engine rebuild.

Heard a lot about Toyota and 7 year extended warranty. Does my vehicle fit into this catagory.

I konw Toyota do a no quibble 30 day/500 mile exchange. My wife and I really like the RAV4 but if my year model could be trouble ahead would look into changing for a newer D-Cat model, which i believe is an updated engine, under this 30 day exchange scheme.

Thanks for any advice given here

You have to go post 2009 for the newer engine (the RAV with chrome around the foglights) although that XT-R with manual box is not a D-CAT engine.

You car is one of the affected models but to be honest if you like it then go back to the dealer and ask them to rework it.

You won't know until you've had it a while to see if it is using oil (some drink it so be sure to check) or whether the EGR blocks up. Occasionally a head gasket goes on an affected one. They may well do it anyway if you ask.

Don't worry you have got aa great motor and TGB will sort it if it plays up

[CharlieFarlie]

I must admit to feeling the same way as the OP on this subject ! Is the warranty for 6 or 7 Years ???

My car was registered in July 2006 so the warranty on the engine will go on to july 2013. Is this correct ???

I feel that I will not be keeping the car outside of the warranty period (Whatever that may be) if the engine is a ticking bomb !! Just how many of these engines are affected ??? Cos if its a lot the why have Toyota not recalled the cars and rebuilt them all instead of having Owners like Me being disillusioned with the car ??

If I was to take My car to the Dealers and claim that its drinking oil would They carry out a rebuild thus taking away the risk for Me by keeping the car outside of that warranty period ?? Or must the car meet some other criteria ???

I dont want to con Toyota into rebuilding an engine that has no problems BUT as the car reaches 7 Years old its value will certainly drop very fast as Who will want to risk buying it ??????

Charlie.

[local hero]

I must admit to feeling the same way as the OP on this subject ! Is the warranty for 6 or 7 Years ???

My car was registered in July 2006 so the warranty on the engine will go on to july 2013. Is this correct ???

I feel that I will not be keeping the car outside of the warranty period (Whatever that may be) if the engine is a ticking bomb !! Just how many of these engines are affected ??? Cos if its a lot the why have Toyota not recalled the cars and rebuilt them all instead of having Owners like Me being disillusioned with the car ??

If I was to take My car to the Dealers and claim that its drinking oil would They carry out a rebuild thus taking away the risk for Me by keeping the car outside of that warranty period ?? Or must the car meet some other criteria ???

I dont want to con Toyota into rebuilding an engine that has no problems BUT as the car reaches 7 Years old its value will certainly drop very fast as Who will want to risk buying it ??????

Charlie.

It seems to be at the discretion of the dealer who may or may not subject it to an oil consumption test (whatever that is) Toyota are not actually calling it an extended warranty more of a customer relations excercise, they are admitting there is a problem and holding their hands up to it, which is fair play to them, and if your vehicle is sooting up + using oil + comes within the affected batch, which at the moment appears to be 2006yr to 2007yr models then you have every chance of getting the re-build done.. hope this helps Stew

[CharlieFarlie]

Thanks for that Stew !! I really would not want to be getting a perfectly good engine rebuilt that would be silly But I also do not want to find Myself with a car that is hard to sell or is of little value because its rumoured to be a potential problem.....My car is slap bang in the middle of the above dates ...

Any Oil consumption tests could easily be played around with !! And a Dealer I would think would be easily swayed towards carrying out any reparation work if Toyota are picking up the tab..

My worry as I've said is do I risk getting caught out later on or do I force an unnecessarie rebuild Or do I simply sell the vehicle and move on ... Its a tough one and one which I feel that Toyota should not be putting Us through ............

Charlie. :rolleyes:

[catseye27]

Thx guys for the info.

A lot of thinking and a bit more research to do before my 30 days is up. As I have said, we really like the RAV4 (dogs must do as well, no trouble getting them to climb aboard). Having paid near £16K for a 29,000 miler considered this vehicle would last us for many years to come as will only be doing around 6,000 miles yearly. But, as Charlie says, who would want to buy once the 7 years is up. If i ditched this car would cetainly buy a newer RAV4, we like it that much.

What is actually the source of the problem with the engine. It has been suggested to go back to Mr T and ask to have the engine reworked. What work would Mr T carry out?

Many thanks

[anchorman]

The problem originates from excessive oil consumption. This in turn can cause the engine to clog up with carbon, both in the upper cylinder and the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve and D-CAT system if fitted. These latter problems can throw up reliabilty problems and warning lights that can also cause the vehicle to default to a low power limp mode so as to protect itself.

The fix consists of new pistons and piston rings but if fitting them were so easy! This is a very complex engine and to fit the pistons they have to make sure that all the major parts are near perfect. For that reason the fix often results in many other parts being fitted and the result is a virtually new engine - but one that is good for many years.

[CharlieFarlie]

Are the bores re honed ?? Is this a problem that affects all of the engines or just some ?? Is this related to mileage ?? IE are higher mileage engines more prone ?? My July 06 car has only 43K miles and will do around 20K per Year in My hands so will likely sit at aroung 84K miles when this good will gesture period expires in 2 Years time ... One thing is for sure I would NOT have bought this car If I had known of this issue. So to the OP Hand it back while You can as the best thing You can hope for if You dont is a rebuilt engine and I hate cars that have had to be messed with !! They just never seem the same !!

[anchorman]

Not necessarily related to mileage. My 1st RAV used about a litre of oil every couple of thousand miles when new then settled down a bit. Many others are similar. There were some running changes that resolved consumption to some extent but even these fall inside the scope of the rework.

Don't be put off by it Charlie. They are superb motors and TGB is at least doing the right thing to affected motors. I know what you mean about owning a motor that has been "fiddled with" but these guys are doing them like shelling peas so if you are concerned and your car qualifies, let them get on with it. At worst it will make you a more saleable car but at best it will extend the life for your own use.

[local hero]

Hi Everyone

Wished i had joined this forum before i purchased my 2007 diesel XT-R. Lots of info here, some a bit scary.

Questions:

Is there a danger my year engine requires one of these rebuilds talked about. How do i tell if my engine has a problem. What work is actually carried out on this engine rebuild.

Heard a lot about Toyota and 7 year extended warranty. Does my vehicle fit into this catagory.

I konw Toyota do a no quibble 30 day/500 mile exchange. My wife and I really like the RAV4 but if my year model could be trouble ahead would look into changing for a newer D-Cat model, which i believe is an updated engine, under this 30 day exchange scheme.

Thanks for any advice given here

Hi Catseye and welcome, You have bought a great motor, yes your 2007 diesel does fall into the batch that may require a "re-build" but if you are worried then take it back + tell them your concerns, explain that because you have only just bought it you do not know if its using oil, or is affected by the soot issues, tell them (I assume it was a Toyota dealer) that you feel it might be better if you rejected the vehicle under the 30 day clause, do all this very politely and speak to the service manager or the salesman who sold it you, do not at this stage offer to buy a newer model (unless you want to) better to hint that you might take your custom elsewhere, and i am sure they will do the right thing for you, be polite but also do not let them fob you off, also IMO do not be tempted to clean your EGR, if it is clogged this goes a long way to proving there is a problem, All of the above just my opinion for what its worth.. hope this helps Stew

[Davrav]

Hi Everyone

Wished i had joined this forum before i purchased my 2007 diesel XT-R. Lots of info here, some a bit scary.

Questions:

Is there a danger my year engine requires one of these rebuilds talked about. How do i tell if my engine has a problem. What work is actually carried out on this engine rebuild.

Heard a lot about Toyota and 7 year extended warranty. Does my vehicle fit into this catagory.

I konw Toyota do a no quibble 30 day/500 mile exchange. My wife and I really like the RAV4 but if my year model could be trouble ahead would look into changing for a newer D-Cat model, which i believe is an updated engine, under this 30 day exchange scheme.

Thanks for any advice given here

Hi Catseye and welcome, You have bought a great motor, yes your 2007 diesel does fall into the batch that may require a "re-build" but if you are worried then take it back + tell them your concerns, explain that because you have only just bought it you do not know if its using oil, or is affected by the soot issues, tell them (I assume it was a Toyota dealer) that you feel it might be better if you rejected the vehicle under the 30 day clause, do all this very politely and speak to the service manager or the salesman who sold it you, do not at this stage offer to buy a newer model (unless you want to) better to hint that you might take your custom elsewhere, and i am sure they will do the right thing for you, be polite but also do not let them fob you off, also IMO do not be tempted to clean your EGR, if it is clogged this goes a long way to proving there is a problem, All of the above just my opinion for what its worth.. hope this helps Stew

Wot Stew says

[Manxrav]

Not wishing to be a complete nerd can I ask if this problem with the Toyota 2.2 D4D is with this engine, does it affect any other Toyota diesel engines ie the 1.4 D4D. Just wondering as this is the one I have in my U/C?

Regards Clare

[anchorman]

Not aware of it affecting 1.4s Clare, maybe one of the Toyota guys can comment..............

[spwolfx]

Hi Everyone

Wished i had joined this forum before i purchased my 2007 diesel XT-R. Lots of info here, some a bit scary.

Questions:

Is there a danger my year engine requires one of these rebuilds talked about. How do i tell if my engine has a problem. What work is actually carried out on this engine rebuild.

Heard a lot about Toyota and 7 year extended warranty. Does my vehicle fit into this catagory.

I konw Toyota do a no quibble 30 day/500 mile exchange. My wife and I really like the RAV4 but if my year model could be trouble ahead would look into changing for a newer D-Cat model, which i believe is an updated engine, under this 30 day exchange scheme.

Thanks for any advice given here

if it doesnt start spending oil now, it wont spend it after 7 years either.

[spwolfx]

Not wishing to be a complete nerd can I ask if this problem with the Toyota 2.2 D4D is with this engine, does it affect any other Toyota diesel engines ie the 1.4 D4D. Just wondering as this is the one I have in my U/C?

Regards Clare

all AD series engines were affected, but of course, as with every issue, it didnt happen with every car.

in your case do yourself a favor and do not go crazy over forum posts... enjoy your vehicle. keep in mind that people come to forums to post their issues.

Your UC has newer version of the engine which shouldnt have any problems and in any case, most reported issues were with Rav4's due to the nature of the car (heavier, sporty driving, held in higher revs).

[shcm]

That kind of confirms this comment from Ormi I noticed while searching the forum for a non-member friend a while ago:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=124326&view=findpost&p=1111469

Anyway, The 1.4 in the the 2007 Yaris we have here is fine. It uses almost no oil and yep, your UC is a progession on from that - Piezo injectors etc.

My 2010 2.2D still burns some. Approx 0.25 litres in 1100 miles.

[catseye27]

Thx guys. Some great info.

Stew, i did buy from a Toyota dealer. The car i bought was sold by this dealer with full service history with them. Will be contacting them with my concerns over the next few days.

The vehicle i bought was at the top end of my budget. The D-Cat year would cost too much really. As i have said, my wife and I love the RAV4. does everything we want from a vehicle.

Just out of interest. Are there any issues with the Petrol VVT unit? This could be an option for us. I am aware of fuel consumption but the RAV4 will be a leisure only vehicle as i ride a motorbike to work and wife has a 1 litre car. Then just need to decide if the petrol 2 litre is suitable for a 2 berth caravan.

Whatever happens, there WILL be a RAV4 in our household.

Once again, many thanks to all who have contributed. I value your considerable knowledge.

[anchorman]

By comparison, the VVTi seems strained when revved and will drink fuel. It has nowhere near the pulling power of the diesel.

[CharlieFarlie]

The petrol cars are just unpleasant in comparison to the 2.2 diesel cars ...................... :thumbsup:

[Manxrav]

Thanks for info Shcm, much appreciated.

Regards Clare

[4.1GX]

All, interesting thread especially as we have just gone through this too. However as much as I dont like my cars being stripped down either I have to say I am totally impressed with Toyota in dealing with our case in particular. Within 24hrs they booked the car in and diagnosed it to be an affected vehicle (it was using oil and the EGR was clogged) and then provided a courtesy car all at no cost to us. The car was returned 5 days later and it is now just settling in nicely, you could tell it was 'tight' again.

Therefore if your motor is affected then dont be put off by the rebuild, hope this helps!!

[El Bee]

My 2010 2.2D still burns some. Approx 0.25 litres in 1100 miles.

Any idea if that's the norm for the engine and what mileage are you at shcm?

When I got mine it was 2 or 3 mm overfilled on the dipstick, now 8100kms later it sits exactly on the "maximum" mark, all a bit odd really, it hardly seems dirty either...

Lee

[shcm]

Any idea if that's the norm for the engine and what mileage are you at shcm?

Dunno, maybe ideally, you'd want a modern engine to use none? 14k (miles). Perhaps it is the oil that went in (all to required spec).

When I got mine it was 2 or 3 mm overfilled on the dipstick, now 8100kms later it sits exactly on the "maximum" mark, all a bit odd really, it hardly seems dirty either...

Yes, mine appeared overfilled at new too. The oil still stays clean now (at least as far as the thin film on the stick is concerned). 0.25 litre is about 5mm down. Can't remember what the difference between "min and "max" is (1 litre?) and can't be bothered to find out at the moment. Don't even know whether the dipstick level is "linear".

....going to ramble off at a tangent. What intrigues me about all this and probably something I will never know the answer to, is why it wasn't caught at the development phase?

Working in design/devel, I know, yes, with the best intentions, sometimes things slip though, but it's kind of surprising really, when you consider engine development is notoriously expensive and time consuming. I just wonder why? e.g. (I'm not suggesting any of these are right - just musings)

• Was something changed at the last minute before production ramp up and so not fully validated? Say oil control rings costed down, for the sake of argument?
  
• Is there something not "production capable" in high volume? (unusual for the Japanese). Is something going wrong @ assembly?
  
• Is the spec of engine oil not "tight" enough? e.g. Toyota's engine oil requirement is to "generic" SAE/ACEA standards, but a lot of other car makers have specific oil specs (although perhaps they may too also still boil down to a ACEA etc spec in the end). Anyway, you'd expect a range of oils, within the spec limits, to be verified in the engine. It certainly happens that engines are tested with different fuel qualities (at least I know from experience, it used to happen).
  
• Is the 2.2D based on a previous engine iteration that has always had an oil consumption problem? I don't know Toyota engine history, but certainly in the past, completely new engine designs were not that common with a lot of car makers. i.e. a "new" engine was very often a progression from an existing block/head etc.
  
• Was the engine always know to be going to burn oil, but that was just one of the many engineering "trade offs" (compromise) needed to get it to meet all the legislation and/or emission requirements?
  

It's good that Toyota are fixing the problem, but I'm always interested in the (I hate this phrase) "root cause". Sorry, I guess the curiosity goes with the day job. :D.

Any of you more mechanically experienced lot got any more "theories" (Apart from the "Toyota just don't give a ****" type of theories :D)?

[anchorman]

Ah - Root Cause, the centre of my universe!!!

My feeling, and it is a feeling, is that the 2.2 was developed as an add in for Europe under the control of R&D in Belgium. It was a new engine and fit the bill for the new RAV. Although it will have had some testing, the long term effects of oil consumption may not have been realised until well into production so these are purely remedial steps. It will be costing a small fortune compared to sorting it from the outset. As you know, timing plans and production deadlines often dictate introduction despite the grumblings of the R&D erks.

IMHO

[Big Kev]

Any idea if that's the norm for the engine and what mileage are you at shcm?

Dunno, maybe ideally, you'd want a modern engine to use none? 14k (miles). Perhaps it is the oil that went in (all to required spec).

When I got mine it was 2 or 3 mm overfilled on the dipstick, now 8100kms later it sits exactly on the "maximum" mark, all a bit odd really, it hardly seems dirty either...

Yes, mine appeared overfilled at new too. The oil still stays clean now (at least as far as the thin film on the stick is concerned). 0.25 litre is about 5mm down. Can't remember what the difference between "min and "max" is (1 litre?) and can't be bothered to find out at the moment. Don't even know whether the dipstick level is "linear".

....going to ramble off at a tangent. What intrigues me about all this and probably something I will never know the answer to, is why it wasn't caught at the development phase?

Working in design/devel, I know, yes, with the best intentions, sometimes things slip though, but it's kind of surprising really, when you consider engine development is notoriously expensive and time consuming. I just wonder why? e.g. (I'm not suggesting any of these are right - just musings)

• Was something changed at the last minute before production ramp up and so not fully validated? Say oil control rings costed down, for the sake of argument?
  
• Is there something not "production capable" in high volume? (unusual for the Japanese). Is something going wrong @ assembly?
  
• Is the spec of engine oil not "tight" enough? e.g. Toyota's engine oil requirement is to "generic" SAE/ACEA standards, but a lot of other car makers have specific oil specs (although perhaps they may too also still boil down to a ACEA etc spec in the end). Anyway, you'd expect a range of oils, within the spec limits, to be verified in the engine. It certainly happens that engines are tested with different fuel qualities (at least I know from experience, it used to happen).
  
• Is the 2.2D based on a previous engine iteration that has always had an oil consumption problem? I don't know Toyota engine history, but certainly in the past, completely new engine designs were not that common with a lot of car makers. i.e. a "new" engine was very often a progression from an existing block/head etc.
  
• Was the engine always know to be going to burn oil, but that was just one of the many engineering "trade offs" (compromise) needed to get it to meet all the legislation and/or emission requirements?
  

It's good that Toyota are fixing the problem, but I'm always interested in the (I hate this phrase) "root cause". Sorry, I guess the curiosity goes with the day job. :D.

Any of you more mechanically experienced lot got any more "theories" (Apart from the "Toyota just don't give a ****" type of theories :D)?

Good to see the weather in Invernessville has not given shcm "watter on the brain"....still sharp as a tack.

I am sitting back here in a slightly better position than the one, say, Charlie Farlie finds himself in. I have a 2009

SR180, and it is covered by Toyota until 2016. As at today's date, I have no intent on changing the car, and grow to like it more as time goes by. I do not have the model with the chrome fog light surrounds, and quite frankly don't know if I have one of the "suspect" vehicles or not.

They have said they will fix it and that will do for me. The people who find themselves nearer the 7 year cut off I have the utmost sympathy with....what to do?...bin it or keep it...?

Just thocht ah would say.....

Big Kev