Air Con Service

[jjj_aygo]

Hi all

I have been quoted a 'very special' £99.99 to have my aircon serviced by my local dealership next time I am there.

I was wandering if anyone knows what an 'air con service' means and whether 100 beans is a reasonable amount to charge?

Thanks in advance

[Parts-King]

Hi all

I have been quoted a 'very special' £99.99 to have my aircon serviced by my local dealership next time I am there.

I was wandering if anyone knows what an 'air con service' means and whether 100 beans is a reasonable amount to charge?

Thanks in advance

A FULL A/C service, including a pollen filter should cost in the region of £50-60, you need them to re-think the price

Kingo

[jjj_aygo]

It does seem rather expensive, especially as it is supposedly a 'special offer'.

Thanks Kingo, I will haggle if necessary!

[daveyjp]

If a/c works I wouldn't touch it - filter is easy to DIY.

After being quoted almost £60 just for a pollen filter change I went and picked up a new pollen fiter for £7 at the local motor factors.

[ihpj]

I would steer well clear of any such 'service offers' as A/C systems are pretty much sealed and if you use it regularly, then there really shouldn't be a problem...and therefore [no] need to 'service' it. Its a money spinner for dealerships who are inventing new ways to extract money from customers for a whole lot of nothing ;)

I wish they would focus on being competitive than simply looking to sell 'snake oil' services to their customers; if they lowered prices and were more transparent on charges, I think we'd use them more.

Thankfully, our Aygo has the 5YR/50K service pack - so that elminates the need for worry come service time.

[jjj_aygo]

I totally agree it does sound like a way of getting more money out of our pockets!

However it sounds to me like my compressor is making a whining noise similar to other posts I have read on here... an air-con service will most likely help find out how to fix that but I won't pay £100 for them just to investigate as if any of the bearings need replacing or the compressor is indeed knackered that will cost me hundreds anyway!

[Unklian]

Air-con use is quite noisy as a rule.

Switch on......Loud clunk as clutch engages.

Cooling fan bursts into life......more noise.

Huge resultant load on drive belt......makes noise

Hissing as system pressurises......

& repeat......

As somebody mentioned. pollen filter......30 seconds job......about £7.00

Also, use an air-con "bomb" to kill bacteria and remove smells......about £10.00

A couple of years ago, I changed an air-con condenser radiator on one of my cars.

I had a local specialist come to my house, vac the system to remove all old gas / air.

Refill with the correct amount of R134a refrigerant using digital scales for £60.00

So......£99.99 does seem a little over the top.

Ian.

[jjj_aygo]

Air-con use is quite noisy as a rule.

Switch on......Loud clunk as clutch engages.

Cooling fan bursts into life......more noise.

Hissing as system pressurises......

& repeat......

Ian.

Apologies I didn't explain myself well enough.... yes mine has always been noisy when in use, but Its developed a whine which changes with engine revs when the air con is NOT on. Hence my worry about the compressor/bearings being knackered.

[Unklian]

Air-con use is quite noisy as a rule.

Switch on......Loud clunk as clutch engages.

Cooling fan bursts into life......more noise.

Hissing as system pressurises......

& repeat......

Ian.

Apologies I didn't explain myself well enough.... yes mine has always been noisy when in use, but Its developed a whine which changes with engine revs when the air con is NOT on. Hence my worry about the compressor/bearings being knackered.

There was a thread about noise recently.

It could be that your drive belt has become polished due to all the dry weather.

(Sounds a bit like a floorboard squeak but quiet & continuous?)

In winter and when it rains, the pulleys surface rust overnight and take the polish off the belt.

With the engine running, you can CAREFULLY introduce a little water onto the belt.

Use a mist from a plant sprayer. That's all you'll need to check.

See if there's an instant change to the noise.

WATCH YOUR FINGERS!!!

Ian.

[jjj_aygo]

Yes I have read the other posts about this topic, I'm not entirely sure that my noise is the same however I will try that and see what happens, thanks Ian

[SaraB]

I use to work in a car dealership and we charged £9.99 for a re-gas then think it was something like £70 so just see whats included first x

[Parts-King]

I would steer well clear of any such 'service offers' as A/C systems are pretty much sealed and if you use it regularly, then there really shouldn't be a problem...and therefore [no] need to 'service' it. Its a money spinner for dealerships who are inventing new ways to extract money from customers for a whole lot of nothing ;)

I wish they would focus on being competitive than simply looking to sell 'snake oil' services to their customers; if they lowered prices and were more transparent on charges, I think we'd use them more.

Thankfully, our Aygo has the 5YR/50K service pack - so that elminates the need for worry come service time.

If you are the perfect driver and use you A/C as it should be used, at least switched on and used once or twice a week, then you should be fine. Unfortunatley, the MAJORITY of customers only ever use it for a few warm days of the year, then when they come to use it in a few years time, the gas has been lost through dry seals. An A/C service is just like every other preventative maintanance, pay for it to be serviced and it will be fine, leave it and it might cost you more in the long term to fix. If you dont want it done, forget it, nobody is forcing you to spend money, yes it makes the dealer a little more profit, just like the supermarket offers on the end of every isle!!!

Kingo

[ihpj]

Kingo, I love you man, I think you do an excellent job in supproting the Forum, especially on the parts side of things.

But I think talk of A/C services as some sort of neccessary service is nonsense. A/C systems are pressurised and sealed. Gas does escape, albeit very little over the lfiecycle of the car and I can see an arugument for a 'service' say 5 years, but every 2? Thats just plain unneccessary. Yes as custoemrs we should be encoruaged to use the system all year round, but evne then, I'd wager most systems are solid enough to withstand infrequent use, certainly in the first 3 years.

If anyone still needs convicing that an A/C system needs a servicing, then why is it not listed in the service shcedule? Documented in the service book? And why is it no included as part of the service schedule when you buy a service pack? Answer is, because its not:) Its pure and simple money spinner for the Dealer praying on the uninformed driver/motorist.

[Parts-King]

I don't think you appreciate the life cycle of the everyday customer ihpj.

On a forum like this we generally preach to the converted, the vast majority of customers never open a handbook, let alone the bonnet. Yes an A/C system is sealed, I agree with most of what you say, but after a few years of not being used the system WILL lose gas, and more importantly, its lubricating quality is lost and the seals leak tiny amounts of gas. Now if you never use your A/C then fine, but if you do it SHOULD be serviced, de-bugged, gassed and oiled, particularly if it does not get a cold as it used to. Yes it is a profit centre just like servicing in general, as far as I am aware it is not illegal yet in this country to try and make a profit? You seem to imply that it is some sort of rip off. Nobody forces you to have it done, if you dont want it, dont have it, fine, but when you turn up at the dealership in the next heat wave and moan about the A/C not being as cold as it used to be, you might consider an A/C service and have to swallow a lump of humble pie The integrety of the A/C gas will not last forever, and as a dealership only seeing customers maybe once a year or less, then we make you aware of things in advance, I don't call it praying on the uninformed motorist, you have it done or you dont.....simples!

Kingo

[acetip]

I don't think you appreciate the life cycle of the everyday customer ihpj.

On a forum like this we generally preach to the converted, the vast majority of customers never open a handbook, let alone the bonnet. Yes an A/C system is sealed, I agree with most of what you say, but after a few years of not being used the system WILL lose gas, and more importantly, its lubricating quality is lost and the seals leak tiny amounts of gas. Now if you never use your A/C then fine, but if you do it SHOULD be serviced, de-bugged, gassed and oiled, particularly if it does not get a cold as it used to. Yes it is a profit centre just like servicing in general, as far as I am aware it is not illegal yet in this country to try and make a profit? You seem to imply that it is some sort of rip off. Nobody forces you to have it done, if you dont want it, dont have it, fine, but when you turn up at the dealership in the next heat wave and moan about the A/C not being as cold as it used to be, you might consider an A/C service and have to swallow a lump of humble pie The integrety of the A/C gas will not last forever, and as a dealership only seeing customers maybe once a year or less, then we make you aware of things in advance, I don't call it praying on the uninformed motorist, you have it done or you dont.....simples!

Kingo

theres many defuct a/c system that have failed due to lack of use.its a fact the seals do fail through lack of lubricant.being used just now and again is an accepted fact to keep everything tip top.its easy in the winter months to forget to run the a/c for a short while.

those like myself who have climate control,then if the systems is left on all the time then it looks after itself.some will say it effects the fuel consumption,but when i compared consumption with it on to being off,i can say it was very little difference if any at all. difference.

[jjj_aygo]

Air-con use is quite noisy as a rule.

Switch on......Loud clunk as clutch engages.

Cooling fan bursts into life......more noise.

Hissing as system pressurises......

& repeat......

Ian.

Apologies I didn't explain myself well enough.... yes mine has always been noisy when in use, but Its developed a whine which changes with engine revs when the air con is NOT on. Hence my worry about the compressor/bearings being knackered.

There was a thread about noise recently.

It could be that your drive belt has become polished due to all the dry weather.

(Sounds a bit like a floorboard squeak but quiet & continuous?)

In winter and when it rains, the pulleys surface rust overnight and take the polish off the belt.

With the engine running, you can CAREFULLY introduce a little water onto the belt.

Use a mist from a plant sprayer. That's all you'll need to check.

See if there's an instant change to the noise.

WATCH YOUR FINGERS!!!

Ian.

I have tried this today... no luck!

The whine is there in every gear from about 2500 rpm onwards with and without the air-con on!

[jjj_aygo]

Does anyone know if I could take the belt off the AC and drive around for a little while to see if the air con is making the whine or not?

If it still whines then I can eliminate the AC being the problem but if not then I will be confident it is just the AC and much less worried!

[Jan van de Wouw]

You'd need another belt and I THINK you might have trouble tensioning it and/or getting it to engage the waterpump well,

as the OUTSIDE of the belt dries the latter and thebelt might nog contact it enough to get traction...

But if you're suspecting the A/C, the sound should go away when the clutch engages.

If ont in use the pump is stationary and the clutch lets it spin free. Once the clutch engages

the internals of the pump start turning and might make noise. If it's the bearings in the clutch

they should stop making noise as soon as it engages, since thes don't turn then...

[Unklian]

I'm still convinced it's a polished drive belt.

However......

I've found this page very helpful in the past, tells you all you need to know about

air-conditioning.

HERE

My Aygo is now 4 years old and I have used the air-con "properly" but I have noticed recently

that just before the compressor kicks in, there is a slight rise in temperature just before

it goes back to ice cold. I think after 4 years, it needs a drain , vacuuming,

(to cause any moisture in the system to boil off) & re-filling with the correct amount of r134a. (Aygos take 500g I believe).

Hopefully, I'm taking it to AUTOKOOL to be sorted. (£50.00 for doing this at their place.)

I'll post back with results when I have it done.

Ian.

[Jan&tone]

Having the A/C on in the Prius doesn't seem to make much, if any, difference... other than to keep the interior cool in summer and warm in winter! I keep the temperature at 19.5 all year round and it seems fine to me! The only niggle is that when you put it on Auto it insists on recirculating the air, so the switch on procedure includes changing the intake from recirc to exterior!

[Jan van de Wouw]

On the Prius the A/C is driven electrically, so it can function when running EV as well as on the ICE or Hybrid.

Becase of this you wouldn't notice the A/C drawing direct power from the engine.

[jjj_aygo]

OK thanks for all your replies.

Its been pretty bad weather recently and the noise is not as bad so I am thinking

the polished drive belt theory is a possibility (Although spraying it with water didn't seem to work!)

I'm booked in at Toyota on Saturday and will have to see what price they can do

on the air-con service. Its probably a good idea as like you Ian I haven't had

it serviced in 4 years!

Thanks again for the help

[Unklian]

OK thanks for all your replies.

Its been pretty bad weather recently and the noise is not as bad so I am thinking

the polished drive belt theory is a possibility (Although spraying it with water didn't seem to work!)

I'm booked in at Toyota on Saturday and will have to see what price they can do

on the air-con service. Its probably a good idea as like you Ian I haven't had

it serviced in 4 years!

Thanks again for the help

I had the re-fill done......

Went to AUTOKOOL in Barlborough.

My Aygo was connected up to a machine using the high & low pressure ports.

The machine checked pressures before starting, they were fine.

All the contents were drained, 385g of refrigerant were vacuumed out along with 26g of oil.

The vacuum held properly for 10 minutes *

26g of new oil (+10g to account for losses) were added along with a UV dye to make any future leaks easy to detect.

Then, 450g of refrigerant were added.

The drive home showed a very slight improvement and the occasional slightly warm air had disappeared.

It was explained to me that the Aygos air-con system is about as small as you can make it,

so even small gas losses will have an effect on performance.

After using mine properly for 4+ years, mine was about 15% low.

So......for £50.00, was it worth it?

I'd say I could have probably managed 1 more year before the air-con was bad rather than poor.

Might as well pay now and gain a bit of knowledge as well as a cooler car.

So, I think so.

Ian.

* The vacuuming isn't really a leak test as I thought, it is used more to "dry" the system out as

any water content will evaporate and be removed. It will only have a pressure difference from the ouside

air of 1 atmosphere or about 15psi. The low pressure side of an Aygo runs at 2 bar or about 30psi, so 15psi won't stress it.

The high side was much higher, I can't remember the exact figure. So, unless it has a huge leak, it is not

possible to find without the dye injection & inspection when there is evidence of a leak.

The most probable cause of a major leak is stone damage to the condenser (in front of the radiator).

Mine has a lot of flies / dirt/ mud on it so would benefit from a jet-wash. That should also improve

the performance of the air-con. Road salt spray is the worst culprit for corroding the condenser from the outside.

In the event of a failure, these are about £90.00 + delivery.

[Sico2]

Toyota quoted me £50 for simple refill after 2 years and £81 for a refill+leak checks and bacterial cleaning. I hope it included pollen filter replacing. Well I don't care, I refused anyway.

[mrpj]

I am led to believe that Toyota now use a variable swashplate compressor. Sanden's is just an example. Whether this is now fitted to the Aygo I don't know. They are clutchless and run continuously giving an output from 2 - 100%. This method is apparently more tree hugger friendly. The swashplate will move and in doing so vary the displacement of the pistons which it drives.

So anything amiss with the compressor and/or drivebelt could, I suppose, create strange noises as it is driven continuously?

Quote - "Sanden’s PX series next generation swash plate compressors are variable controlled for maximum environmental benefit, these compressors replace the Zelex and Valeo compressors that are prone to early failures.

The PXE16 has a minimum displacement of 4.9cc, a maximum displacement of 163cc, maximum speed of 8500RPM and 7 pistons. The displacement control is external and varies the compressor displacement without the use of an electromagnetic clutch. The unit runs all the time and varies output as required.

Refrigerant used is R-134A and the oil used is SP-10."