Toyota

[brendans]

Hi all,

I've now had my Avensis since April and i'm thoroughly disgusted to the point that told i've told Toyota GB that I am sending all the documents back to them and to keep the car and the money I paid for it as it's not worth the hassle. It's a long story of lies, half truths and complete disregard for customer service and I post it in the hope that no one else has to go through what we have. Like i say its a long post but i hope you stick with it until the end...

Brendan.

Avensis.

I contacted Mr XXXXXXXXXXXX at Inchcape Nottingham and paid £100 deposit by credit card for him to hold the car so we could view the car on 3rd April 2011

Drove down to Nottingham and viewed the car as arranged. It was in an ok condition with some small stone chips, slight damage to the rear bumper but had an obvious rattle from the engine. We pointed this out to Mr XXXXXXXXXXX and his manager and they reluctantly agreed with us. We then went inside to look at finance and asked for 24 hours to think about it.

On Monday the 4th Mr XXXXXXXX phoned and we told him we would take the car on the proviso the rattle was identified and rectified to which he agreed.

On 6th April Mr XXXXXXXXXX phoned and said the noise had been traced to the aircon unit and would be fixed for us under warranty and we agreed to this.

On the 10th April I contacted Mr XXXXXXXX by email enquiring as to where the necessary paperwork was and also enquiring directly as to what work would be done on the car under the warranty scheme as we were worried about paying for the car which may need a lot of remedial work done to it.

On April 11th Mr XXXXXXXXXXXX email a response saying everything was fine and we hadn’t to worry.

I replied to this email on the 12th directly asking what part of the unit was faulty and received no answer to this question.

On the 14th April I received an email from Miss XXXXXXXXX at Inchacape with the required paperwork for us to sign. We emailed back that day asking what the terms and conditions of sale were and also requested a full copy of what was included and covered in the 12 month warranty. We also asked her if Mr XXXXXXXXXX had identified and rectified the noise we had heard on our visit.

On the 15th April she emailed back the terms and conditions to us but not the 12 month warranty. She also informed us she would Mr XXXXXXXXX to contact us when he came in but he never did get in touch.

On the 22nd April the car was driven up to us by and agency driver. It appeared to be acceptable but on inspecting the paperwork there was no invoice/receipt/job card for any work done to the car with regards to rectifying the noise we had heard. We requested a copy of the receipt for our records in case of further warranty work but he never replied.

I again contacted Mr XXXXXXXXXX on April 26th as we were concerned the car was noisy again. We asked him again directly what the fault was and how it was fixed.

He replied on the 28th saying the car had been checked by him and his manager before it was released and both were happy with it. He further said the car was under a full warranty and requested we take it to any Toyota main dealer if we were not satisfied.

I replied to him on the 28th saying we were disappointed in the car and expected more. I informed him I would take the car to Western Toyota in Edinburgh and once again asked him to state exactly what the noise was and how it was rectified. I have as yet no received a reply to this email.

On 4th May 2011 I had the car booked in at Western Toyota in Edinburgh. At that time I noted to them the car sounded tappety, was intermittently throwing out blue smoke on start-up, had an erratic idle and was intermittently hesitant when accelerating which was more noticeable when cold. I got a call from them saying the engine was needed major work and I made an appointment along with my wife to see Mr XXXXXXXXXXXXX who was the after sales manager.

He explained the known problem with pistons, piston rings and EGR valve and said the many thousands of pounds of work the engine required would be covered under warranty. He said it would take 7-10 days and we would be given a courtesy car for the duration of the repair work for a flat charge of £60. He also said we would be given regular updates on progress.

On Tuesday 24th May I visited Western to enquire after the car and they said work was progressing and almost complete and that I would be contacted shortly.

On sat 28th May I again contacted Western and was informed the car was ready to be picked up so I arranged to drop the courtesy car off and pick up my own car on Monday 30th may.

On the 30th we went in to pick the car up and I met Mr XXXXXXXXXX again. He said the work was done and I would now notice a huge difference in performance after running it in. he also mentioned in the passing the fuel system was flushed through as petrol was believed to have been present:- I said I hadn’t put petrol in the car nothing more of it was mentioned. No invoice or job sheet was provided for our records.

On driving the car home that day the car still sounded tappety to me and the erratic idle was still present. I contacted Western again saying the car still wasn’t right and the following day I booked the car in again for Thursday 2nd June.

On 1st June I contacted Western again saying the car was intermittently smoking on start up again.

Contacted Consumer Direct today as well and I described the story to them so far and they said my best bet would be to make sure the car was fixed to my satisfaction under warranty by Western. If I tried to take it back to Inchcape now because some other garage had worked on it they could refuse to accept it. I might need to start legal proceedings in any case if I want try to get my money returned but Inchcape may also request the car is returned to them for further diagnostics and a chance to repair any faults found with no need for them to return any money.

On the 2nd June I took the car in and met with Mr XXXXXXXXXXXXX once more. Both he and a mechanic test drove the car. They both said the erratic idle was normal, could hear a slight noise from the engine and put the blue smoke down to needing to be run in after such a major rebuild. I asked to hear another car as a comparison but none were available. The conversation lasted about one hour and we both argued our points. I said the car was in a similar condition as to when I originally brought it in and he blamed contaminated fuel, I vehemently denied this as I have had diesels at home and work for 11 years. He said the car needed run in for 1000 miles and I reluctantly agreed as we had reached a stalemate. He said he would check with his technical director as to the erratic idle and phone me with the details he concluded the conversation by saying that if I was going to be so fussy I should’ve bought an Audi or a Volkswagen. He also at that time raised a complaint for me with Toyota GB.

On sat 5th June the car began to hesitate on initial pulling away and it still sounded tappety with blue smoke on start-up and still had the erratic idle.

On Monday 6th June I contacted Miss XXXXXXXXXX in Toyota customer relations at 0930 hours. She explained she couldn’t diagnose faults over the phone or make franchises comply and her real task was to moderate between me and the garages. If we wanted to return the vehicle it might need legal proceedings to be started against Inchcape. If we wanted to fix the car Western would have to do this but Inchcape may offer to fix the car instead of accepting the return. She was going to contact Western to get their take on it and I should expect a call back from my case manager Mr XXXXXXXXXXXXXX within 48 hours.

On Tuesday 7th June I went to Citizens Advice Bureau for advice. They suggested arbitration through a registered motor industry dealer and to seek further legal advice from them (CAB) if necessary.

Mr XXXXXXXXXXX from Toyota phoned also today, he my complaint case manager. He said Western were happy with the vehicle when it left them but would now be willing to look over it again if we booked it in. He also said we could take it to any Toyota dealership for warranty work if we didn’t want to take it back to Western but he strongly suggested we take it back to them to give them a second chance. I said I would think it over before deciding. I also said I was surprised Toyota were not asking more questions of their dealerships but he never took me up on that. Booked the car into Western on Fri for more diagnostics.

Weds 8th June. Contacted Miss XXXXXXXXXXXX at the motor industry code of practice but they only deal with new cars.

On Thursday 9th June I made an official complaint to Inchcape in Nottingham regarding the nature of the faults being so serious that we request our Money be returned as the car was not fit for purpose.

On Fri 10th June I returned to Western with the car and spoke with Mr XXXXXXXXXXXX and he now claims the fuel was merely contaminated and did not have petrol in it, he further suggest that bio-diesel has been used in it he recommends testing the injectors but this needs to be done with the vehicle completely cold so the car is now booked in overnight Monday – Tuesdays for a test first thing Tuesday morn.

On Sun 12 June I tried to trade the car into Western Volkswagen on Gorgie road. The salesman looked it over started it and then said they weren’t interested before handing me the keys and walking away.

Monday 13th June, car handed in to Western Toyota for more diagnostics and got a free courtesy car.

Tuesday 14 June, letter from Mr XXXXXXXXXX of Inchcape stating my letter to them had arrived and they were actively investigating the details. He also stated in his letter he would be in touch with me personally within 7 days of the date of this letter (13th June)

Western also contacted me today to say a glow plug was found to be outside tolerances and would be replaced under warranty.

Mr XXXXXXX at Western Toyota phoned on the 15 June to say that all four glow plugs have been replaced under warranty. He stated that it still smoked a bit on start-up but he says it still needs to be run in for 500 miles to see how it is then.

Picked the car up from Western on Thursday the 16th June. Mr XXXXXXXXXXXXX described to me how the mechanics couldn’t find a fault with the car using a computer. He tried to take it out for a test drive but couldn’t take it anywhere due to it running so roughly. He took it back to the mechanics and they done some more diagnostics before finally discovering the faulty glow plug and ended up replacing all four under warranty. He said it still smoked a bit on start-up but this could be many things including piston rings or valve stems. He requested I give it another 500 miles and if I still wasn’t happy by then to bring it back for further diagnostics.

June 20th, it’s now a week since Mr XXXXXXXXXXX from Inchcape wrote saying he was investigating and would be personally in touch with me by today-he hasn’t.

On Friday 24th June I received a letter from Mr XXXXXXXXXX at Inchcape asking for full details from Western as to the extent of the repairs carried out by them under warranty to date on the car.

27th June, went in to Western with the letter from Mr XXXXXXXXXXX and organised through Mr XXXXXXXXXXX for a copy of the work done so far to be emailed to him with a copy sent to us. He said he would do it ASAP.

On June 30th Claire emailed Mr XXXXXXXXXXXXX asking if he had sent the email to Mr XXXXXXXXXXX as he said he would. A short time later she received an email from him sent to Mr XXXXXXXXXXX with details of all the work carried out so far. I looked at this and noticed that the details of the fault described on the job sheet did not tally with the faults I took it in with namely: - the erratic idle was there along with a reference to rough running and black smoke but I took it in with complaining of an erratic idle, blue smoke from the exhaust, hesitation on acceleration and a tappety noise from the engine.

Saturday 2nd July. Contacted Western again to book car in for more diagnostics, its going in on Tuesday.

Tuesday 5th July. Dropped the car off at Western and unfortunately Mr XXXXXXXXXXX was stuck in heavy traffic on the M8. I spoke to Mr XXXXXXXXXXX and described the problems to him again, smoke, tappety noise, hesitation and erratic idle. We had a blether about the conditions and when it was most likely to happen, he said he'd get Mr XXXXXXXXXXXX to phone when he came in. There were no courtesy cars available until Fri so my friend Scott has loaned me his.

Wednesday 6th July. Mr XXXXXXXXXXXXX phoned after lunch to say that they had checked the car and both the mechanics and himself could not find fault with it even on a test drive. I said I had video footage of the smoke from the exhaust from Sunday and he suggested a couple of possible faults that would cause this including carbon burning off in the exhaust. I still was not happy with this and we went over all the faults again and he concluded by saying that he promised to fix the car and he would do so.

We also sent an email that evening to Mr XXXXXXXXXX at Inchcape stating that we believed we had afforded him a reasonable time to do all his investigations into the original selling of the car and if we had not heard from him within 7 days we would have to take the matter further.

Today the 7th of July we had a breakthrough at last! Mr XXXXXXXXXX phoned in the afternoon to say progress was being made. He described how the mechanics were doing a methodical strip and check of all the obvious areas of the car which would cause a fault similar to what we are experiencing. He also said they were starting the car every 2 hours to try to replicate the fault and at last it played up for them by running rough and pumping out smoke through the exhaust. Fortunately at the time they were able to stop the car and inspect the manifold where a quantity of oil was found. He says he can’t be sure as the cylinder head was still in situ but he believes the fault lies with the valve stem oil seals and he was now in the process of ordering the required parts. He says this may take a day or two and we could have the car back but i told him to keep it as I’m going to keep using Scotts car in the meantime. He reckons it could take a week for the parts to be gathered together and the work to be done.

11 July. Was passing Western so thought I’d pop in and see them along with Scott. Unfortunately Mr XXXXXXXX wasn’t about but Mr XXXXXXXX was there instead. I said I was just wondering if there had been any progress on the car so far and he informed me the head was just in the process of being taken off-this surprised me a bit as I assumed it would’ve been taken off and stripped ready for the new parts and rebuild. We had a blether for a good 15 mins about what was found and how it would be rectified, he confirmed oil was found in the intake manifold and they suspected a valve stem oil seal to be the problem. I said it was odd to find oil in the intake manifold and also that I’d had cars burn oil on start up in the past which pushed out a little blue smoke but never at it affected the running of the car so badly as this had. I inquired as to what work would be done e.g. would the oil seals merely be replaced or would the whole head (valves, guides other areas) be checked as well along with the head itself in case it is cracked. I also asked if the problem might lie with the turbo but was assured by Mr XXXXXXXXX everything would be checked and any faults found would be rectified and all the valve stem seals would be replaced in any case. I then went on to enquire as to the still erratic idle on tick over with the aircon engaged he assured me again the 300 rev leeway was correct and they could do nothing under warranty as this 300 rev difference was normal. I pushed him again and he agreed to take a screen shot of the computer screen for me once the head was back on showing the ECU and management systems correctly identifying the aircon and correctly controlling it. He said he would keep in touch and I would hopefully have the car back on Thurs or Fri at the latest as I also told him I was planning on taking the car touring the North of Scotland. We had a laugh about it breaking down when we are away...

14th July, Mr XXXXXXXX from Inchcape has now had his 7 days to reply and has not done so.

15th July. Had a missed call on the mobile at just before 10am today, i though it was Western so phoned them back at 11am and got through to the service department. The girl on the phone wasnt aware of anyone trying to contact me but said Mr XXXXXXXXXX was off but she would get Mr XXXXXXXXXX to phone me if it had been him looking for me. Its now 1pm and theres been no calls so i presume it wast them looking for me.

I also phoned Toyota again today. Unfortunately my case manager was on holidays so it was XXXXXXXXXXX who tried to help. I briefy described to her the ongoing problem and told her I'd had enough of the hassle and was now at the end of my tether. I told her I was returning all the paperwork appertaining to the car to Toyota GB including the V5 as i no longer wish to have the car. She tried to disuade me stating it would all be returned to me but i insisted saying that direct action seems to be the only option left to me.

All the relevant documents have now been returned.

[Parts-King]

What a catalogue of woe!

A couple of things

a, Your contract is with Inchcape, you bought it off them, no good returning to Toyota GB, its not their car and you will incur charges

b, Your contract with Inchcape means THEY must be given an opportunity to put it right, NOT another dealer

c, Your car has serious issues but you MUST give Inchcape chance to fix it, taking further legal action is pointless until you do this

What to do next?

Get all this, in writing to the General manager / Dealer principle of Inchcape. Give him time to sort it out, say 14 working days, and what you want if it is not fixed, IE, another car or money back. Post it recorded delivery, wait for them to respond

Goods must not be inherrantly faulty when purchased, it sounds like yours was, DO NOT return your car to Toyota

Good luck

Kingo

[rolfieboy]

This sounds really bad but is similar to the service i have received and not received from Inchcape Burton.

Perhaps all their employees got to the same Inchcape school of "I dont care now i have got your money"

Not to hijack this thread, but, i work for Toyota @ Burnaston and my car has been in to Burton for a repair and has come out with more defects on the paintwork than when it went in!

Apparantly to quote the principle, " we can't get a good finish on repaired panels" So why bother trying then??

FUMING!

[brendans]

Thanks for the couple of replies and good advice so far but i want to stress i'm not trying to find a fix for the car or even find a way to return the car for an exchange or my money back. As far as i care Toyota GB can do what they want with the car (keep it, sell it, cut it up or whatever), i've had enough of the emails, letters, and phone calls to anyone and everyone concerned with this car and still no satisfaction. The car won't ever sit on my driveway again and i'm going to do what i should've done when i first started to look for a replacement for my old car and thats to buy a VW which is incidentally what an after sales manager at Toyota also told me to do when i complained the Avensis still wasn't right.

Brendan.

[Lorna2]

Hi hope you get your car sorted out! I think you will if you take Kingo's advice.

The worst experience I ever had with a car was a Chevrolet Matiz, it was a useless heap of dirt, not even fit to call a car.

I have to say the chevrolet matiz is truly THE worst car I have ever driven. I bought it brand new and kept it for less than a year it was so bad. I know a few others who had other models of Chevrolet which were just as bad.

The chevrolet matiz had a faulty starter, so often the 'car' wouldn't start. It had faulty electrics. All the pedals were rubbish -very stiff clutch,handbrake and useless soft brakes. The steering felt as if it was connected to the wheels with rubber bands. The matiz's paintwork became pitted with little holes. Power was pathetic as soon as you need to drive above 40mph. Also it had no power to drive up a small hill, it just rolled back down – luckily no other car was behind me that day. The driver seat was not secure (I'm not heavy). The rubber seals round the doors had started to perish. There was nothing but trouble with the gear box, never came across such problematic gears. The lean whilst cornering even at the slowest speeds was terrible. The Matiz was so narrow,shoulder room was tight between the driver and passenger.

The radio was also faulty,the choice was between times it did not come on, or came on and went off, and it was loose in hole it was supposed to sit in.

The matiz had the noisiest, roughest engine I have ever heard and it wasn't a diesel.The whole matiz felt thin and brittle. The exterior felt like it was made of tin cans and the interior, well, an eggshell comes to mind. Flimsy poorly built rubbish. mats badly worn as if ten years old, instead of one year.

It was in the Chevrolet garage lots of times and they had no idea how to fix it. One time it was in for the starter problem and they put 59 miles on it, the salesman told me he was out driving around the town in it to 'test' it - what would he know, he's not a mechanic. They hadn't a clue how to fix the matiz, it was riddled in faults.They gave me a courtesy 'car'(another matiz) which was just as bad, the only extra fault it had was a strange noise from the back of the car.Terrible customer service too.

My aunt had a Chevrolet Lacetti, the paint peeled off it big flakes. The roof leaked in from the area where the aerial was.There was a banging noise off her chevrolet. The gasket broke, so the chevrolet lacetti died out in the middle of the road, she had to wait weeks for a new part. terrible customer service too. She got rid of her chevroelt too.

My chevrolet matiz was an absolutely rubbish car. Awful. Rubbish tacky junk. I hated every second behind the wheel of it. The best place for a Chevrolet is in the dump, it is the worst car I have ever driven and I was GLAD to get rid of it. I hated every second in that car. Would I recommend one? Not a chance.

I actually had a lovely blue Yaris T3 before I got the evil matiz. As soon as I could afford to get rid of the chevrolet matiz, I went straight to Toyota got another Yaris a black TR, and love it. Might get an iQ next year or another Yaris:D Must also say I have never been to any other dealership which gives such excellent service as in my local Toyota, all the staff there are lovely :)

Sorry for getting off topic(oops)

At least you've all been warned not to buy a nasty chevrolet.

[brendans]

A little off topic as you say Lorna but thanks for that, i wont be going anywhere near a matiz! Without wanting to sound pompous or vain when i spend £8.5k on a car i have a certain level of expectation as to the overall experience i have from the car and Toyota and i dont think anyone can argue that i've been seriously let down by Toyota and its agents.

As i've said in my previous posting though i dont want the car fixed, replaced or money refunded. As parts-king has suggested i've already written formally to Inchcape over a month ago and they have ignored me, Toyota GB are spineless and Western are hapless so thats the end of the Toyota experience for me. A rather dear experience but one that i wont forget the lessons of.

Today...Tomorrow...Toyota... my a***!

Brendan.

[Jan&tone]

A little off topic as you say Lorna but thanks for that, i wont be going anywhere near a matiz! Without wanting to sound pompous or vain when i spend £8.5k on a car i have a certain level of expectation as to the overall experience i have from the car and Toyota and i dont think anyone can argue that i've been seriously let down by Toyota and its agents.

As i've said in my previous posting though i dont want the car fixed, replaced or money refunded. As parts-king has suggested i've already written formally to Inchcape over a month ago and they have ignored me, Toyota GB are spineless and Western are hapless so thats the end of the Toyota experience for me. A rather dear experience but one that i wont forget the lessons of.

Today...Tomorrow...Toyota... my a***!

Brendan.

Brendan, I can't deny that you feel you have been let down, but you cannot tar all Toyota's by just the one.

Like many others on here, and probably many, many more who are not members of this forum, I have had nothing but excellent cars from Mr T over the last 25 years, never a foot wrong and an excellent relationship with both the dealers I have used over that time.

From your original post I can't see what the mileage of the car or the age? You did say that there was a problem that you wanted rectified before you completed the purchase? I would have walked at that point, there are plenty of Avensis about.

You also seem to have kept all the records as a sort of diary? Strange thing to do to my mind, the only thing I keep when I buy a car is the invoice and warranty papers but I'm sure you had your reasons, perhaps you were expecting trouble?

It seems to me that you are very lucky to be able to afford to write off both the car AND the purchase price (8.5k ?) there are a large number of people around who would not be able to afford to do that!

as Kingo has said, your beef is with the original dealer although I can't understand why you went to Nottingham from Edinburgh to buy a car with an obvious problem, don't they sell Avensis in Scotland?

Your post made interesting reading but frankly, as is my perogative, it doesn't sound like any Toyota dealers that I've come across....

Maybe your original approach to the Nottingham dealers wasn't quite right.

Hopefully you will get it sorted without losing any cash.

[Mistermena]

I'm sorry to read about the problems that you've encountered when purchasing your car. It can be a nightmare when situations like this happens. But I would have walked away from th car in the 1st instant if there were issues with it prior to handing over th cash!

I hope it get resolved in your favor and you can purchase one that is fit for purpose...

All the best

[headhurts]

Phew!

I would keep the car as there has been so much work on it already done you should soon end up with a nearly new engine.

Western seem to be doing all they can to fix the issue, in the early days if the fault did not appear then it would be difficult to fix.

Stick with it or sell the car.

Failing that give it to me.

I wish you well whatever you do as owning a car should be a positive experience.

[Heidfirst]

Which Western?

My experience of the one in Sighthill has been nothing short of exemplary.