Rft Conversation With A Dealer

[webleymk3]

Here is an email conversation i just had with a dealer regarding RFTs.. It doesn't sound right compared with what you guys are saying.... As ever with email, read from the bottom up.

Comments please...

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Yes, that's just inserted into a normal tyre of the correct size this is what needs replaced if you get a puncture.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:57 AM

Subject: RE: Rav 4 T180

Oh. What about the ring that sits on the wheel itself. Is this what you mean by beading?

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Sent: 20 July 2011 09:53

Subject: Re: Rav 4 T180

You can buy any brand of tyre (doesn't have to Bridgestone) the correct size, the run flat beading goes inside the tyre its beading that's the 'run flat' bit not the tyre.

Though your local centre may offer you Bridgestone as Toyota seem to have a deal with them at the minute but the choice is the customers.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:40 AM

Subject: RE: Rav 4 T180

Yeah. I though about that. But the T180 has sensors in the wheels so I would have an alarm on the dash I believe. Am I not right in saying that the smaller wheel size would also screw around with the speedometer/odometer?

If the insurance company do write it off (and pay us enough!) it will be a hard choice as I wanted a T180 from the outset. I’m just nervous about the run flats. Just read a story about a guy getting a bill of £700 for replacing one tyre following the problems with a single puncture. Whilst I appreciate this might be a single incident, I need to think about it and take it into consideration. From what I’ve read, even Toyota think the RFT ring system is a bad idea. It seems also that you can only buy Bridgestone tyres on at a premium price… Is this true???

I like your thinking though!

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Sent: 20 July 2011 09:31

Subject: Re: Rav 4 T180

Doesn't seem to be many around Ill keep looking round, an option for you would be (may be cheeky) but your wheels on your old RAV would fit if you could get your hand on them??

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:41 AM

Subject: RE: Rav 4 T180

Hi,

Still waiting for the insurance company to progress things. In the meantime however I am liking the T180 though I have heard very bad reports about the RFTs which is making me nervous. Therefore, do you know of an XT5 of similar age/mileage??

Thanks

[CharlieFarlie]

Mate there is a great big long thread covering the runflats where You will get an information overload !! http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=117342

But basically You either run with them or simply change them for a normal tyre...

I have a set of almost new ones on My car that were fitted just before I got the car .... If and when I need a new set of tyres I will simply fit normal tyres and make sure My RAC cover is up to date !!!! Stop worrying Mate lifes to short !!!

Charlie.

[webleymk3]

Mate there is a great big long thread covering the runflats where You will get an information overload !! http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=117342

But basically You either run with them or simply change them for a normal tyre...

I have a set of almost new ones on My car that were fitted just before I got the car .... If and when I need a new set of tyres I will simply fit normal tyres and make sure My RAC cover is up to date !!!! Stop worrying Mate lifes to short !!!

Charlie.

Just been reading that thread!

I'm not worrying. just a tad confused. and also wanted to share what Mr dealer was telling me!

If I were to buy a T180 I want to be fully informed of the cost of these beasts and what the best options are.

Cheers

[CharlieFarlie]

I have just spoken to a Pal who has a tyre depot in the Midlands... Toyo Tyres in size 235/55/18 on offer at 120 quid each plus VAT... BridgStones at 127 plus VAT......

HTH

Charlie.

[Big Kev]

Websmin....in the name of Robin Hood's Parish Priest....

Who has referred you to "the runflat beading"....? He should be named and shamed if that's what he thinks the T180 / SR180 system consists of, or at least be shot with a ball of his own bowel waste....!!! It's folk like that who DO confuse the issue.

Big Kev

Editation : even worse, mate, you call him a "dealer"....by that do you mean he is employed by Mr.T ? If so, and he is the source for the T180 you are looking at, jog backwards....he hasn't a clue....

[webleymk3]

Websmin....in the name of Robin Hood's Parish Priest....

Who has referred you to "the runflat beading"....? He should be named and shamed if that's what he thinks the T180 / SR180 system consists of, or at least be shot with a ball of his own bowel waste....!!! It's folk like that who DO confuse the issue.

Big Kev

Editation : even worse, mate, you call him a "dealer"....by that do you mean he is employed by Mr.T ? If so, and he is the source for the T180 you are looking at, jog backwards....he hasn't a clue....

Erm. Yes he be the one. That said I'd still have no problems buying from him if the price was right. If I know what I'm looking for then it doesn't matter what they say. Being a mr t it comes with a shiny warranty that'll fix everything!!!

[Big Kev]

Websmin....in the name of Robin Hood's Parish Priest....

Who has referred you to "the runflat beading"....? He should be named and shamed if that's what he thinks the T180 / SR180 system consists of, or at least be shot with a ball of his own bowel waste....!!! It's folk like that who DO confuse the issue.

Big Kev

Editation : even worse, mate, you call him a "dealer"....by that do you mean he is employed by Mr.T ? If so, and he is the source for the T180 you are looking at, jog backwards....he hasn't a clue....

Erm. Yes he be the one. That said I'd still have no problems buying from him if the price was right. If I know what I'm looking for then it doesn't matter what they say. Being a mr t it comes with a shiny warranty that'll fix everything!!!

Spent all ma life in Sales, mucker.....folk like him got us good Sales folk a bad name.

Big Kev

[CharlieFarlie]

Websmin....in the name of Robin Hood's Parish Priest....

Who has referred you to "the runflat beading"....? He should be named and shamed if that's what he thinks the T180 / SR180 system consists of, or at least be shot with a ball of his own bowel waste....!!! It's folk like that who DO confuse the issue.

Big Kev

Editation : even worse, mate, you call him a "dealer"....by that do you mean he is employed by Mr.T ? If so, and he is the source for the T180 you are looking at, jog backwards....he hasn't a clue....

Erm. Yes he be the one. That said I'd still have no problems buying from him if the price was right. If I know what I'm looking for then it doesn't matter what they say. Being a mr t it comes with a shiny warranty that'll fix everything!!!

Care to enlighten Us on what is the right price ?? Mate long shot here but when My car has had its engine replaced in a few weeks time I may be changing it for an Automatic car as My wife is struggling with the clutch ...

I should point out that a certain Forum Member will get first refusal on My car but there is a chance I will be selling it in the near future.....

PM Me if You prefer??

Charlie.

[barkerboy]

Webly,

The sales guy has been lambasted but he's on the right lines at least which is more than most. Read the sticky at the top of the forum and it should answer most questions. Feel free to PM me if you have any more. The gist of it is if you have a T180 you need 4 wheels with valves programmed by Mr T's computer to tell the car all is well with the tyre pressures. If you have any other wheels you will get a dashboard light which i believe you can turn off by cutting a pink wire somewhere. If you keep the 18" T180 wheels you can run them with the run flat ring (actually called BFR) as supplied but you will have to go to Toyota or one of the scarce other tyre shops when you need the tyre changing. This means you are limited in your choice and Mr T will always gladly take £250 off you every time you need a new tyre. Also you could find yourself in the position i did where i was stranded miles from home on a Sunday night with no where open that had the special machine needed to change the tyre so had to go home on the back of a 50mph max lorry zzzzzzz. Also make sure you have breakdown cover as i managed to recover the 500 i spent on recovery that night. Alternatively keep your 18" wheels but have the BRF (support ring) removed by angle grinder or Toyota and fit any tyre you want with the same good looking wheels. If you do this you will save around £100 on any future tyre changes and anyone can change the tyre. Just make sure you have a puncture repair kit on board your vehicle.

[Big Kev]

Webly,

The sales guy has been lambasted but he's on the right lines at least which is more than most. Read the sticky at the top of the forum and it should answer most questions. Feel free to PM me if you have any more. The gist of it is if you have a T180 you need 4 wheels with valves programmed by Mr T's computer to tell the car all is well with the tyre pressures. If you have any other wheels you will get a dashboard light which i believe you can turn off by cutting a pink wire somewhere. If you keep the 18" T180 wheels you can run them with the run flat ring (actually called BFR) as supplied but you will have to go to Toyota or one of the scarce other tyre shops when you need the tyre changing. This means you are limited in your choice and Mr T will always gladly take £250 off you every time you need a new tyre. Also you could find yourself in the position i did where i was stranded miles from home on a Sunday night with no where open that had the special machine needed to change the tyre so had to go home on the back of a 50mph max lorry zzzzzzz. Also make sure you have breakdown cover as i managed to recover the 500 i spent on recovery that night. Alternatively keep your 18" wheels but have the BRF (support ring) removed by angle grinder or Toyota and fit any tyre you want with the same good looking wheels. If you do this you will save around £100 on any future tyre changes and anyone can change the tyre. Just make sure you have a puncture repair kit on board your vehicle.

Barker me ol' Mucker....confused me you have...."BFR"...then "BRF" you say....? It's real abbreviation I understand to be "BSR", as in "Bridgestone Steel Ring". That apart, how is the salesman on the right lines by explaining to Webz that the runflat system is any way linked to "the beading of the tyre", as in the email in the Original Post....?

Not trying to be a multicoloured sweetie with a chocolate centre made by Rowntree's (?), but the Salesman is totally but inadvertently misleading the potential customer....non?

Big Kev

Or is it "BRS...Bridgestone Runflat System...?"....MATTERS NOT A JOTTERY....REINFORCED BEADING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, AND THE SALES GUY SHOULD KNOW / RESEARCH BETTER THE PRODUCT...apologies for catapult letters.

[CharlieFarlie]

Bit off topic but can the following be done

Get Tyres removed by Toyota

Cut or rings whatever they are called.

Re fit run-flats back onto the wheels with normal tyre fitting gear ....

This would in My case save cutting off four perfectly good tyres and skipping them..

My question I suppose is as the runflat or back up to the air in the tyre is that ring thingy and not a heavily constructed tyre wall then surely the tyre will re fit in the normal fashion ????

This could be backed up as said above with either a tyre repair kit as supplied with the latest SR Rav4 or the good old RAC / AA.....

I realise that either the valves would have to be retained or the pink wire cut ......

Wee Charlie.

[MarsKy]

Websmin....in the name of Robin Hood's Parish Priest....

Who has referred you to "the runflat beading"....? He should be named and shamed if that's what he thinks the T180 / SR180 system consists of, or at least be shot with a ball of his own bowel waste....!!! It's folk like that who DO confuse the issue.

Big Kev

Editation : even worse, mate, you call him a "dealer"....by that do you mean he is employed by Mr.T ? If so, and he is the source for the T180 you are looking at, jog backwards....he hasn't a clue....

The "Wheel & Tyre Bible" discusses a Michelin PAX system similar to the BSR system:

"Not content with their Zero Pressure System, Michelin developed the PAX system too in late 2000 which is a variation on a theme. Rather than super-supportive sidewalls, the PAX system relies on a wheel-rim and tyre combination to provide a derivative run-flat capability. As well as the usual air-filled tyre, there is now a reinforced polymer support ring inside. This solid ring clips the air-filled tyre by it's bead to the wheel rim which is the first bonus - it prevents the air-filled tyre from coming off the rim. The second bonus, of course, is that if you get a puncture, the air-filled tyre deflates, and the support ring takes the strain. Michelin say this system is good for over 100 miles at 80km/h (50mph). The downside is that I believe the PAX system is just that - a system. ie. you can't use PAX tyres on standard rims and you can't use standard tyres on PAX rims. This is because PAX tyres have asymmetric beads. In English this means that the inside bead and outside bead are a different diameter. Typically a 410 PAX tyre will have bead diameters of 400mm on the outside and 420mm on the inside."

[Big Kev]

Wotsha Marsky....PAX vobiscum....thought you may interject finally.....

So this is more than likely the system the Salesman is confusing Toyota/Bridgestone Runflat System with one would presume....?

Big Kev

[wardude]

Charlie

If your selling the car soon, would you not be better leaving the BSRs in place?

[MarsKy]

Wotsha Marsky....PAX vobiscum....thought you may interject finally.....

So this is more than likely the system the Salesman is confusing Toyota/Bridgestone Runflat System with one would presume....?

Big Kev

Ah - the bhoy from Stepps knows his Latin

Who knows what goes through a salesman's mind? But it would help explain where beading might have been thought as an issue.

I do pop in every now-and-again to this "hypochondriac's corner" :)

Same as other forums though. Go to BMW's and the main recurring problems are failure of compressor for the self-levelling suspension; poor design of wiring harness on rear pop-up window causing connections to break; and putting electronics at the bottom of the spare tyre well so that any water spilled in the boot accumulates there and zaps everything.

At least you get to know what to keep an eye on.

Caveat emptor.

[CharlieFarlie]

Charlie

If your selling the car soon, would you not be better leaving the BSRs in place?

Mate its just a question I wanted to ask.. Is the tyre just a tyre with the ring inside ?? A Forum Member has first refusal on the car and if it doesn't go in that direction a Friend has showed an interest so its worth asking ..

Wee Charlie.

[wardude]

Hey Wee man. Well as far as I know my guy HAD to cut the tyre off as he couldnt get it off using bog standard tools over the support ring. Next time I see him ill certainly ask for you. I suppose IF he could have done it without cutting them he would have. Also if he could, we would not really have a problem in getting our tyres changed at any high street tyre place.

All I know for sure is im a very happy bunny knowing I have 4 Hankook tyres on which I can get changed at any high street tyre dealer and have no light flashing on the dash.

[webleymk3]

Wow. MrT ought to look at this and see how peeved people are getting...

Anyway, MrsWibblers has reliably informed me we are not buying a Rav without a spare tyre.... Period... End of... to be honest I also don't fancy getting caught with a puncture at -10C in the middle of nowhere with a 1 year old baby in the car who's hungry and greeting their eyes out.

So no T180 for me :( I'll take an XT5 though...

[CharlieFarlie]

Wow. MrT ought to look at this and see how peeved people are getting...

Anyway, MrsWibblers has reliably informed me we are not buying a Rav without a spare tyre.... Period... End of... to be honest I also don't fancy getting caught with a puncture at -10C in the middle of nowhere with a 1 year old baby in the car who's hungry and greeting their eyes out.

So no T180 for me :( I'll take an XT5 though...

Mate has You car been written off now ??

Wee Charlie.

[webleymk3]

Wow. MrT ought to look at this and see how peeved people are getting...

Anyway, MrsWibblers has reliably informed me we are not buying a Rav without a spare tyre.... Period... End of... to be honest I also don't fancy getting caught with a puncture at -10C in the middle of nowhere with a 1 year old baby in the car who's hungry and greeting their eyes out.

So no T180 for me :( I'll take an XT5 though...

Mate has You car been written off now ??

Wee Charlie.

Yep. confirmed on Thursday. only took them 2.5 weeks to work it out!!!

[barkerboy]

Sorry for the confusion in my post yesterday. Yes i meant BSR not BFR or BRF or KFC! And sorry i thought the beading the salesman was referring to was the support ring. On reflection if he was suggesting the tyre has a magic bead them he's a numpty. Please carry on berating him!

And if it helps anyone's question. When i bought our T180 part of the deal was for the garage to pay for Toyota to change a low treat tyres for a new one. Toyota gave me the old tyre back in tact and it will make a good spare when i source a wheel.

I'm 99.9% sure only Toyota and a few others have the 'machine' to remove the tyre without cutting it off or damaging it.

And hopefully this will be the last time it has to be said. THE TYRE ON THE T180 IS A NORMAL TYRE. It's identical to the Bridgestone on the SR180 which doesn't have the support ring attached to the alloy. The only difference is the T180 fitted tyres have the circle tyre sign on the wall to show there is a run flat system but the tyres can be used without a support ring fitted as there is no physical difference.

[Big Kev]

Sorry for the confusion in my post yesterday. Yes i meant BSR not BFR or BRF or KFC! And sorry i thought the beading the salesman was referring to was the support ring. On reflection if he was suggesting the tyre has a magic bead them he's a numpty. Please carry on berating him!

And if it helps anyone's question. When i bought our T180 part of the deal was for the garage to pay for Toyota to change a low treat tyres for a new one. Toyota gave me the old tyre back in tact and it will make a good spare when i source a wheel.

I'm 99.9% sure only Toyota and a few others have the 'machine' to remove the tyre without cutting it off or damaging it.

And hopefully this will be the last time it has to be said. THE TYRE ON THE T180 IS A NORMAL TYRE. It's identical to the Bridgestone on the SR180 which doesn't have the support ring attached to the alloy. The only difference is the T180 fitted tyres have the circle tyre sign on the wall to show there is a run flat system but the tyres can be used without a support ring fitted as there is no physical difference.

Wotsha Barks, again,

The SR180 (THAT'S ME) does indeed have the same runflat system as the T180.....it's the newer SR model which has reverted to absolutely normal/same Bridgestone tyres with no support ring, as their attempt at a tyre and dealer CARTEL had rebounded on them badly and they scrapped it. (That's my stance/opinion anyway....)

Davrav has a copy of who has the facility to change the BBC tyres (make up yer own sweary words...), and they are not all main Toyota garages, but indies who were probably taken in by the hype of safety attached to this system, and invested quite heavily in the machinery to fit and remove them.

Watch this space in near future as I may be selling a T180/SR180 mint wheel and tyre......

Big Kev

[Davrav]

Davrav has a copy of who has the facility to change the BBC tyres

Big Kev

Well I didn't but I do now........

My link

See post 114 from Kirk at Bridgestone. No idea if list is still accurate though