T180 Egr Clean. Hmmmm

[wardude]

hey all

As you know the Check VSC,ABS light came on the other day. So today I cleaned my EGR valve. I have cleaned this valve 4 times since I got the car. The first time it was well baked up with carbon etc etc as i dont think previous owner had ever cleaned it. Second, and third time it was pretty clean and only needed a wipe over. However this time its almost as bad as the first time it was cleaned. The car hasnt used a drop of oil and the only other thing I can think of that could be to blame is the BD244 stuff or the Greased Lightning I added a few months ago. After adding these to the fuel i noticed a big difference in the way the car performed and its mpg which on a trip back from Scotland sat at 45 mpg. So the only two factors that have changed in last few months are that I added these additives OR the fact that my car is now doing much shorter runs to and from work. So my question is, could the BD244 stuff have caused this by de carboning the engine and causing it to build up in the EGR??? Not sure of the tech side of things regarding the egr but I find it wierd how this is the dirtiest it has been and the 2 factors above are the only changes in the cars routine. Other than the warning light and the dirty egr valve the car is running great having done 70k miles

[CharlieFarlie]

I thought that BD 244 stuff was to prevent the build up of deposits not make it worse ? How many miles since the last clean of the EGR ?? Is You car burning oil ?? Which engine are We talking about ?? Could this be yet another engine giving up the ghost ??? MMMmmmmm

Wee Charlie.

[Mistermena]

hey all

As you know the Check VSC,ABS light came on the other day. So today I cleaned my EGR valve. I have cleaned this valve 4 times since I got the car. The first time it was well baked up with carbon etc etc as i dont think previous owner had ever cleaned it. Second, and third time it was pretty clean and only needed a wipe over. However this time its almost as bad as the first time it was cleaned. The car hasnt used a drop of oil and the only other thing I can think of that could be to blame is the BD244 stuff or the Greased Lightning I added a few months ago. After adding these to the fuel i noticed a big difference in the way the car performed and its mpg which on a trip back from Scotland sat at 45 mpg. So the only two factors that have changed in last few months are that I added these additives OR the fact that my car is now doing much shorter runs to and from work. So my question is, could the BD244 stuff have caused this by de carboning the engine and causing it to build up in the EGR??? Not sure of the tech side of things regarding the egr but I find it wierd how this is the dirtiest it has been and the 2 factors above are the only changes in the cars routine. Other than the warning light and the dirty egr valve the car is running great having done 70k miles

Hi,

I wonder if this is a question that you could also pose to Powerenhancers? Have you changed the brand of fuel you've been using from the clean EGR valve to the lessor so? I also assume that you are talking about BG244 and not BD 244?

[wardude]

Hi

yeah BG244. No my engine isnt burning oil and no i use Shell diesel and aint changed from it. (aint used a drop of oil in 6000 miles) it is a while since I cleaned it out last. My engine had new piston rings and head gasket 2 years ago due to excess oil consumption. I thought maybe the BG244 had maybe removed a load of carbon from the engine causing the EGR to block but I dont know the way it works. Only other thinbg is my car is now doiung very short runs. other than that the engine is ruinning great.

[Mistermena]

Hi

yeah BG244. No my engine isnt burning oil and no i use Shell diesel and aint changed from it. (aint used a drop of oil in 6000 miles) it is a while since I cleaned it out last. My engine had new piston rings and head gasket 2 years ago due to excess oil consumption. I thought maybe the BG244 had maybe removed a load of carbon from the engine causing the EGR to block but I dont know the way it works. Only other thinbg is my car is now doiung very short runs. other than that the engine is ruinning great.

The whole idea behind BG244 is to help clean the EGR and the injectors plus lub the fuel pump. So I'm guessing that the short trips could be the reason why the EGR valve is now dirty. Give it a good run on the M-Way is what I'd consider doing

[wardude]

Yeah possibly the short runs. My Vectra had its EGR cleaned at every service. Anytime I found the car to lose power or be sluggish, the garage would clean the EGR. Think ill get it blanked off as they are just a pain.

[Mistermena]

Yeah possibly the short runs. My Vectra had its EGR cleaned at every service. Anytime I found the car to lose power or be sluggish, the garage would clean the EGR. Think ill get it blanked off as they are just a pain.

These EGR valves are more hassel than there're worth. But I dont think you'll be able to blank it out and fool the Denso ecu tbh. There have been some posts on here about a company that can do this but I dont know anymore than that on the subject. But I bet it'll cost a fair few quid to do!

[wardude]

well I guess ill just add more of the bg244 and keep cleaning the egr every few months. The engine is sweet as a nut and gives good mpg and id rather keep it than have a new one, esp since somone is on their 3rd. Just checked oil again and its still sitting on the max mark. never moved after 8000 miles. Cant be bad. I hope I havn't just cursed my engine

[anchorman]

Take it to Mr T and see about a new engine.

[wardude]

Hey Don

but its running fine and had new piston rings, head gasket etc 2 years ago. i cant see them giving me a new engine for a blocked egr valve. Esp since they did the mods

[Offroadster]

Hi, most deffinately the short runs. Iam only 5 miles from work and had similar problems. Soot build up on EGR, no oil loss or power loss but I had poor mpg. Greased lighning sorted out the mpg. I now cycle most days so dont have thaT carbon build up, when I clean the car I clean the EGR, only takes 15 minutes.. Fill the tank up with Shell V power or BP Ultimate and take it for a good run. I only ever use V Power or Ultimate now.

[Daveyonthemove]

I thought Greased lightening contained PTFE, which is known to bond to metal when hot, and then bond to itself... In short, causing blockages.

I could be wrong, but it may be the reason.

[wardude]

Yeah i thought short runs may be to blame. As for Greased Lightning i dont think the fuel additive contains PTFE but the oil additive does.

[Daveyonthemove]

You could be right, as soon as i heard that PTFE was used in one of their products I decided not to look any further or buy any.

[wardude]

Molyslip is way to go for oil additives. i have used it for years and it makes a big difference. NO PTFE either.

[anchorman]

i cant see them giving me a new engine for a blocked egr valve. Esp since they did the mods

They will if it's still doing it.

[Daveyonthemove]

I have read about the EGR valve clogging and relating to the need for a new engine, but has anyone actually gone into Toyota and had an EGR inspection and been told that a new engine is needed?

I'm a bit sceptical to be honest considering the job that the EGR does (recirculating exhaust gas), but it's nice to know that when my car is 6 1/2 years old, I can go to a local scrap yard, fit a second hand clogged up EGR valve, and get a replacement engine.

Or is that too easy....?

[CharlieFarlie]

I have read about the EGR valve clogging and relating to the need for a new engine, but has anyone actually gone into Toyota and had an EGR inspection and been told that a new engine is needed?

I'm a bit sceptical to be honest considering the job that the EGR does (recirculating exhaust gas), but it's nice to know that when my car is 6 1/2 years old, I can go to a local scrap yard, fit a second hand clogged up EGR valve, and get a replacement engine.

Or is that too easy....?

I don't think its quite that easy Mate.. And what would be the point anyway.. I bought My 43.000 mile Rav because of the legendary reliability that comes with a Toyota. My engine is to be replaced and I think its a real shame as I like originality in a car and have never liked cars that have been messed with.And when the V5 is altered to show that the engine has been replaced will likely throw a cloud over the car in the eyes of any future potential Buyer (Not that I'm thinking of selling just yet) On the other hand as I've opined elsewhere Toyota cannot be faulted in Their approach..

Wee Charlie.

[Daveyonthemove]

Totally agree about Toyota's loyalty to their customers. I've not seen any other marque come close.

I just find it difficult to see how the EGR is a symptom of engine failure.

I'm just playing devils advocate about the new engine. Someone who is having some minor issue that may cost money outside of warranty may use this tactic to get a new engine under the extended warranty. Yes it may prove tricky to sell on, but if it could be easier than selling on a car with potentially expensive faults.

Anyway, as I was saying, I would like to know the reason behind this theory, if there is one.

[CharlieFarlie]

Totally agree about Toyota's loyalty to their customers. I've not seen any other marque come close.

I just find it difficult to see how the EGR is a symptom of engine failure.

I'm just playing devils advocate about the new engine. Someone who is having some minor issue that may cost money outside of warranty may use this tactic to get a new engine under the extended warranty. Yes it may prove tricky to sell on, but if it could be easier than selling on a car with potentially expensive faults.

Anyway, as I was saying, I would like to know the reason behind this theory, if there is one.

Well it seems that a repeatedly blocking EGR is an indication of excessive sooting which in the case of the Ravs engine is a result of the piston rings being clogged due to low fuel quality... Or at least that's what the Service Manager told Me today. Plus a couple of rudimentary oil consumption tests plus whatever else they checked while the car was down in the workshops equals a new engine to be ordered and fitted.

Genuinely I wish this issue had never arose as its a bit (With respect) a right royal pain in the *****.. Do I get it done here or in the Midlands ? I live in Scotland at the moment but I expect to be back in the Midlands in the future. But the housing market could mean I'm in Scotland for some time . I of course need or desire to get it done where I most likely will end up just in case of problems later on ......................

Whilst I greatly appreciate a new engine it will not benefit Me at all ... If the problem were never to have arose I would just be driving a regular reliable Toyota without any question marks hanging over it...

My fear is that I will get the car done in the Midlands and it may ( Not being pessimistic here)throw up a problem and its an 800 mile round trip to get it sorted !!

Me ? I would rather the problems never arose.......

Charlie.

[wardude]

Totally agree about Toyota's loyalty to their customers. I've not seen any other marque come close.

I just find it difficult to see how the EGR is a symptom of engine failure.

I'm just playing devils advocate about the new engine. Someone who is having some minor issue that may cost money outside of warranty may use this tactic to get a new engine under the extended warranty. Yes it may prove tricky to sell on, but if it could be easier than selling on a car with potentially expensive faults.

Anyway, as I was saying, I would like to know the reason behind this theory, if there is one.

Well it seems that a repeatedly blocking EGR is an indication of excessive sooting which in the case of the Ravs engine is a result of the piston rings being clogged due to low fuel quality... Or at least that's what the Service Manager told Me today. Plus a couple of rudimentary oil consumption tests plus whatever else they checked while the car was down in the workshops equals a new engine to be ordered and fitted.

Genuinely I wish this issue had never arose as its a bit (With respect) a right royal pain in the *****.. Do I get it done here or in the Midlands ? I live in Scotland at the moment but I expect to be back in the Midlands in the future. But the housing market could mean I'm in Scotland for some time . I of course need or desire to get it done where I most likely will end up just in case of problems later on ......................

Whilst I greatly appreciate a new engine it will not benefit Me at all ... If the problem were never to have arose I would just be driving a regular reliable Toyota without any question marks hanging over it...

My fear is that I will get the car done in the Midlands and it may ( Not being pessimistic here)throw up a problem and its an 800 mile round trip to get it sorted !!

Me ? I would rather the problems never arose.......

Charlie.

I too dont want a new engine for the simple facts you state. im in a bit of a dilema as mine is running fine, not using oil, doing good mpg BUT since my mileage has decreased, my egr is sooting up. I still dont see how a sooting up egr valve alone will make Toyota change an engine as most other cars, including 2 of my previous cars, have the same problem

[CharlieFarlie]

Totally agree about Toyota's loyalty to their customers. I've not seen any other marque come close.

I just find it difficult to see how the EGR is a symptom of engine failure.

I'm just playing devils advocate about the new engine. Someone who is having some minor issue that may cost money outside of warranty may use this tactic to get a new engine under the extended warranty. Yes it may prove tricky to sell on, but if it could be easier than selling on a car with potentially expensive faults.

Anyway, as I was saying, I would like to know the reason behind this theory, if there is one.

Well it seems that a repeatedly blocking EGR is an indication of excessive sooting which in the case of the Ravs engine is a result of the piston rings being clogged due to low fuel quality... Or at least that's what the Service Manager told Me today. Plus a couple of rudimentary oil consumption tests plus whatever else they checked while the car was down in the workshops equals a new engine to be ordered and fitted.

Genuinely I wish this issue had never arose as its a bit (With respect) a right royal pain in the *****.. Do I get it done here or in the Midlands ? I live in Scotland at the moment but I expect to be back in the Midlands in the future. But the housing market could mean I'm in Scotland for some time . I of course need or desire to get it done where I most likely will end up just in case of problems later on ......................

Whilst I greatly appreciate a new engine it will not benefit Me at all ... If the problem were never to have arose I would just be driving a regular reliable Toyota without any question marks hanging over it...

My fear is that I will get the car done in the Midlands and it may ( Not being pessimistic here)throw up a problem and its an 800 mile round trip to get it sorted !!

Me ? I would rather the problems never arose.......

Charlie.

I too dont want a new engine for the simple facts you state. im in a bit of a dilema as mine is running fine, not using oil, doing good mpg BUT since my mileage has decreased, my egr is sooting up. I still dont see how a sooting up egr valve alone will make Toyota change an engine as most other cars, including 2 of my previous cars, have the same problem

As said above they will not replace an engine on the EGR alone ..... It will have to be displaying other symptoms like excessive oil consumption or dropping coolant levels or God knows what !!!

Mate Your engine has been done. You say its not burning oil and is giving good MPG .. So You don't have a problem surely ??

I wish I didnt thats for sure .............

One other thing. If You are doing decreased mileage but more stop starts or short journeys surely this will increase sooting up of the EGR ??

The DPFs or Diesel Particulate filters on Jags do not like this and as a result Dealers are not recomending Diesel versions of the XF to owners who do this mostly kind of driving .....

Wee Charlie.

[wardude]

Hey Charlie

Yeah mine is running great but its still a worry that everyone seems to be getting new engines, where as mine just got new piston rings when it used oil. Why are they now replacing engines? Its not just the fact they are replacing engines, its the fact that its a different engine by design. This says to me that my new rings were just a cheap, poss temp fix otherwise why wouldnt they still just be changing other folks rings only

[anchorman]

Hey Charlie

Yeah mine is running great but its still a worry that everyone seems to be getting new engines, where as mine just got new piston rings when it used oil. Why are they now replacing engines? Its not just the fact they are replacing engines, its the fact that its a different engine by design. This says to me that my new rings were just a cheap, poss temp fix otherwise why wouldnt they still just be changing other folks rings only

Did you read post No 16?

[CharlieFarlie]

Hey Charlie

Yeah mine is running great but its still a worry that everyone seems to be getting new engines, where as mine just got new piston rings when it used oil. Why are they now replacing engines? Its not just the fact they are replacing engines, its the fact that its a different engine by design. This says to me that my new rings were just a cheap, poss temp fix otherwise why wouldnt they still just be changing other folks rings only

Mate Your a good Guy and You have helped Me in the past with the Tyre pictures and stuff but Mate You are not hearing here !

Toyota have changed Their policy in the way they are dealing with these engines They were up until July 1st rebuilding them and allowing the Dealer 27 hours labour plus the parts,,,,,,

Now they are finding it cheaper to rebuild the engines in Japan or where ever They are doing them and ship them to the Dealer who is then give 13 Hours labour to swap them over. Thereby saving 14 hours......

I know its hard to make sense of the above and its hard from a business point of view to make the numbers stack up but Toyota must be re building these engines for next to nothing to make this work.... Either that or the People who are on their second or third engine leaves Toyota to believe the engineering is best done in house by them ??

Whatever Your car Has been sorted and is doing everything well So don't worry about it .... HTH

Wee Charlie.