The T180 Engine And Maybe The Cause Of Its Woes ?

[acetip]

Charlie

Why not just live with it for a while. I'm not aware that Ford break any records for reliability - quite the opposite and they certainly won't look after you like Toyota have.

Its up to you but don't shoot yourself in the foot buddy.

He has said he has experianced little faults with Fords he has owned and the same applies to myself. buying a Ford does not automaticly your going to have grief,as buying Toyota does not mean your going have a trouble free car. its pot luck.

at the present time Ford are ahead of Toyota on build quality.

The materials used in the cabin by Fords is far superior to what Toyota use.

we can all quote cars that have been a nightmare.

ive had 4 Vw,3 were brilliant,the golf was terrible you name it ,and it went wrong.

they were all new when purchased.

[anchorman]

You are entitled to your opinion

[acetip]

You are entitled to your opinion

And so is Charlie.

[jedi134]

I would not take for gospel anything a main dealer tells you, they have only 1 interest in mind, themselves.

In my opinion UK fuel is top notch. I am running a 4.2 diesel rav on the crapest fuel available, and 80k later still going strong, even the EGR was clean. I do use 5w/40 oils thou

A design fault with the new engines would be my top guess without doubt, does anyone know what temp these new engines run at? Would it be a lot more that a 4.2 rav?

Just my 1p worth :D

[CharlieFarlie]

I would not take for gospel anything a main dealer tells you, they have only 1 interest in mind, themselves.

In my opinion UK fuel is top notch. I am running a 4.2 diesel rav on the crapest fuel available, and 80k later still going strong, even the EGR was clean. I do use 5w/40 oils thou

A design fault with the new engines would be my top guess without doubt, does anyone know what temp these new engines run at? Would it be a lot more that a 4.2 rav?

Just my 1p worth :D

Mate the Service Manager was talking off record !! They simply could not have been more helpful !!!

Of course there is a design fault and this has been said so many times its now getting silly. But that design fault is exacerbated by the poor quality diesel We get in the UK.

This theory if You like is backed up by the amount of cars affected in the UK and in places with better quality fuel far lees cars are failing...

Toyota have done a whole lot of research into this and are holding up Their hands and admitting that the engines design was not up to standard for the marketplace it was being sold in.

Perhaps Your 4.2 has a slightly different spec ?? Could this be due to the fact that Low friction pistons were fitted to the D cat engine or that variation of the AD engine.

The first post here said that their is and always has been a design fault to which Toyota are putting right with the minimum amount of fuss. and Fair play to them for doing so.

What I will say with all honesty is while the ownership of the car is now tainted to the extent that I will be selling it once its all sorted. I have never known such awesome service and back up from any Manufacturer !!!! And believe Me I have had well over 100 cars and in excess of 200 vans over the last 35 Years or so.....

Whatever I / We / You chose to think of the quality of fuels in the UK doesn't really matter and frankly the subject is now getting boring... Believe what You like. I believe in figures...

Wee Charlie.

[Daveyonthemove]

Sorry to hear that this experience has ruined your experience of Toyota Charlie.

I can see why it would tempt you to go back to what you know, and i'm pretty sure a lot of us would feel the same if we had the same issue.

If this was a one off incident and the forum wasn't littered with other head gasket issues, you could probably put it down to bad luck and allow them to fix it and carry on as normal, but I guess it is a bit too common to ignore.

That said, the service is fantastic for such a big problem, and unlikely to be matched by many other makes.

I'm the polar opposite of you on the Toyota Vs Ford situation. My last car was a Mondeo ST TDCI, and I had nothing but issues with it, which Ford refused to deal with.

Some of those faults include:

Faulty EGR (Very common)

Dropping rear bumper (Very common)

6 CD player eating CD's

High pressure fuel pump leaking (known expensive issue).

In the end, the EGR made the car jerky at town speeds and made me look like a bad driver. The fuel pump was leaking diesel on the driveway and there was a smell in the cockpit, but the leak could never be found, and the bumper was eventually resting on the exhaust, which broke it and started blowing badly and caused lots of noise both from the rear, and the turbo.

I traded it in after 10 months of being messed around by Ford looking for reasons to blame me for the faults.

I just hope you have better luck if you do buy another Ford, because that experience has put me off any car bearing that blue oval on the bonnet!

[acetip]

Sorry to hear that this experience has ruined your experience of Toyota Charlie.

I can see why it would tempt you to go back to what you know, and i'm pretty sure a lot of us would feel the same if we had the same issue.

If this was a one off incident and the forum wasn't littered with other head gasket issues, you could probably put it down to bad luck and allow them to fix it and carry on as normal, but I guess it is a bit too common to ignore.

That said, the service is fantastic for such a big problem, and unlikely to be matched by many other makes.

I'm the polar opposite of you on the Toyota Vs Ford situation. My last car was a Mondeo ST TDCI, and I had nothing but issues with it, which Ford refused to deal with.

Some of those faults include:

Faulty EGR (Very common)

Dropping rear bumper (Very common)

6 CD player eating CD's

High pressure fuel pump leaking (known expensive issue).

In the end, the EGR made the car jerky at town speeds and made me look like a bad driver. The fuel pump was leaking diesel on the driveway and there was a smell in the cockpit, but the leak could never be found, and the bumper was eventually resting on the exhaust, which broke it and started blowing badly and caused lots of noise both from the rear, and the turbo.

I traded it in after 10 months of being messed around by Ford looking for reasons to blame me for the faults.

I just hope you have better luck if you do buy another Ford, because that experience has put me off any car bearing that blue oval on the bonnet!

Hi DAVEY,we have exchanged post on your experiance of the mondeo st you had owned before.

you were very unlucky with the one you had.

I was waiting for the wife in a garden centre a few months back while she spent my pension on some plants. a st rolled into the car park and i thought it maybe the one i sold.as mine had a personel plate when i owned it,that would have had a new registratio on it.but it was not.got talking with the owner about the car.he had brought it with 10000 miles on the clock and it had now done 48000 plus miles.as you said the dropping bumper was a common fault,though mine never suffered from this nor any other problem.the owner of this st said he was told by the dealerhe purchased it from that they had replaced the bumper on it with the support blocks,which is a cure for this problem.

he told me he had owned many cars and the st was the best car he had ever had and if he won the lottry he would not change it.

as to your radio/cd,well it was made by Sony wich is a well respected tv,radio etc brand.

i had a mondeo tdci ghia before the st and am reception was terrible in certain areas on its radio.i took it in to my local ford dealership,which i must say are very good.the workshop manager himself checked it out for me.the problem was a poor connention of the aerial into the back of the set.which a couple of twists cured.

the Sony radio/cd is a smart looking piece of kit,cant say the same for the set up in my auris though.

hope you keep happy with your auris.

[CharlieFarlie]

Sorry to hear that this experience has ruined your experience of Toyota Charlie.

I can see why it would tempt you to go back to what you know, and i'm pretty sure a lot of us would feel the same if we had the same issue.

If this was a one off incident and the forum wasn't littered with other head gasket issues, you could probably put it down to bad luck and allow them to fix it and carry on as normal, but I guess it is a bit too common to ignore.

That said, the service is fantastic for such a big problem, and unlikely to be matched by many other makes.

I'm the polar opposite of you on the Toyota Vs Ford situation. My last car was a Mondeo ST TDCI, and I had nothing but issues with it, which Ford refused to deal with.

Some of those faults include:

Faulty EGR (Very common)

Dropping rear bumper (Very common)

6 CD player eating CD's

High pressure fuel pump leaking (known expensive issue).

In the end, the EGR made the car jerky at town speeds and made me look like a bad driver. The fuel pump was leaking diesel on the driveway and there was a smell in the cockpit, but the leak could never be found, and the bumper was eventually resting on the exhaust, which broke it and started blowing badly and caused lots of noise both from the rear, and the turbo.

I traded it in after 10 months of being messed around by Ford looking for reasons to blame me for the faults.

I just hope you have better luck if you do buy another Ford, because that experience has put me off any car bearing that blue oval on the bonnet!

I had quite a few EGR valves go on the Transit vans.... It was definitely a weak area . One van had 5 in three Years !!

But all My vans were changed bang on 3 Years old and the EGRs were replaced under warranty without question and usually done while the driver waited with a cup of coffee in hand....

At one time I had 11 vans on the road. Most covered around 30K miles a Year. One covered 180K in 3 Years.. Apart from EGRs We had no issues whatsoever !! I also had 3 or 4 Mondeo s My personal last one was a late model Titanium X that ramped up 78K miles in 2 years and never missed a beat............. :thumbsup:

[Daveyonthemove]

There's no denying that I had a very unlucky experience with my Ford, despite it being an ex 'Ford direct' car, so it's fair to say that my case is not a common one, and your experience has obviously been better than mine. Maybe your lucky, or maybe I'm unlucky, but either way I can understand why you want to change back, for the same reason I wanted to get rid.... Once you've been bitten you look back to what you know.

In my case the Toyota was an impulse buy, and it turned out to be a very good one for me, and I can say hand on heart that its probably the best car I have owned, despite the lower than expected MPG.

Its a shame that yours has developed the head gasket issue, but getting it repaired for free should make it an easier pill to swallow. Good luck with the new Ford, I really do like most of the new range, but I can't forget the experience I had...

[dave.m]

I now have a date of the 10th of August for the engine change. Once done I will be parting with the car and going back to a Ford...... I have had loads of Fords right back to Capris And RS turbos Sierra Cosworths ect ect And more latterly over 30 Transits vans and the latest shape TitaniumX Mondeo. The most I have had on these cars is EGR valves !!!!

Again I cannot fault the way Toyota have dealt with this issue and I hope all those affected will get the same outstanding service !!

For Me I think its better the devil You know.. So back to Ford .... I will get a high end Titanium X model with the sunroof that I cant get with a new Rav. And an Auto box will help the Wife as well..

Wee Charlie.

As a last resort Charlie, have you considered buying a diesel auto Rav and having a sunroof fitted by a company like this ? -

http://www.autoroofs.co.uk/

[acetip]

There's no denying that I had a very unlucky experience with my Ford, despite it being an ex 'Ford direct' car, so it's fair to say that my case is not a common one, and your experience has obviously been better than mine. Maybe your lucky, or maybe I'm unlucky, but either way I can understand why you want to change back, for the same reason I wanted to get rid.... Once you've been bitten you look back to what you know.

In my case the Toyota was an impulse buy, and it turned out to be a very good one for me, and I can say hand on heart that its probably the best car I have owned, despite the lower than expected MPG.

Its a shame that yours has developed the head gasket issue, but getting it repaired for free should make it an easier pill to swallow. Good luck with the new Ford, I really do like most of the new range, but I can't forget the experience I had...

Hi Davey,

I thought Ford direct cars were all low miliage models,in some cases as my son in laws was 600 mile.was it in your case a con by the salesman.does not matter which franchais the salesmen work for,they all get up to tricks.their job depends on making a profit.and the profit is out of you and i.

[Daveyonthemove]

There's no denying that I had a very unlucky experience with my Ford, despite it being an ex 'Ford direct' car, so it's fair to say that my case is not a common one, and your experience has obviously been better than mine. Maybe your lucky, or maybe I'm unlucky, but either way I can understand why you want to change back, for the same reason I wanted to get rid.... Once you've been bitten you look back to what you know.

In my case the Toyota was an impulse buy, and it turned out to be a very good one for me, and I can say hand on heart that its probably the best car I have owned, despite the lower than expected MPG.

Its a shame that yours has developed the head gasket issue, but getting it repaired for free should make it an easier pill to swallow. Good luck with the new Ford, I really do like most of the new range, but I can't forget the experience I had...

Hi Davey,

I thought Ford direct cars were all low miliage models,in some cases as my son in laws was 600 mile.was it in your case a con by the salesman.does not matter which franchais the salesmen work for,they all get up to tricks.their job depends on making a profit.and the profit is out of you and i.

The car was definitely a Ford Direct car at one point, as i had the 'Ford Direct' pamphlet and card in the glove box, and they were registered to the registration. It was a selling point that was used a fair bit in order to seal the deal, and sadly I fell for it. The car had only done 62,000 when i bought it, so not a 'low' mileage car, but not particularly high.

It turned out to be the worst car i had ever owned, and was partnered with the worst service too.

[CharlieFarlie]

Ford direct cars are all the cars that have either been damaged during transportation or rejected by the First Owner for some reason or other IE A mate bought the very latest Mondeo with the Powershift gearbox. This played up from day 1 .... That and a few other issues meant He rejected it as not fit for purpose.. He was given another car which was fault free and his original one was punted onto the Direct system..

Any genuine Sales Exec will confirm this off the record of course ....

Wee Charlie.

[Parts-King]

Ford direct cars are all the cars that have either been damaged during transportation or rejected by the First Owner for some reason or other IE A mate bought the very latest Mondeo with the Powershift gearbox. This played up from day 1 .... That and a few other issues meant He rejected it as not fit for purpose.. He was given another car which was fault free and his original one was punted onto the Direct system..

Any genuine Sales Exec will confirm this off the record of course ....

Wee Charlie.

No not as bad as that Charlie, but an outlet for all the pre-reg demo and company cars that Ford sell, including all the cars that come back from the staff scheme, which are thousands of cars on a yearly basis

Kingo

[wardude]

I can confirm what parts king says as my uncle was a sales manager at a big Ford direct dealership where i got my Ford from

[Daveyonthemove]

I was informed that a Ford direct car was a demonstration model that had been used by dealership managers, and as a result the servicing, maintenance and warranty work would all be done on time and to the highest standards.

Looks like i was fed the bait and swallowed it whole on that occasion. Another reason for me to never return to Fraud for another car.

On the plus side, a row I had with the store manager was overheard by the area manager, and he was no longer working there by the time i collected my car a week later, and I was mysteriously given a full tank of fuel and some car mats that were originally ruled out of the deal. Every cloud....

[acetip]

you were lied to alright.cant blame Ford for that or dealership in general.its as i said dont trust car salesmen.no way can a 62000 mile car be a Ford Direct.no way would a dealership manager keep a car for that miliage.who was the previous owner according to the reg doc.

[Daveyonthemove]

you were lied to alright.cant blame Ford for that or dealership in general.its as i said dont trust car salesmen.no way can a 62000 mile car be a Ford Direct.no way would a dealership manager keep a car for that miliage.who was the previous owner according to the reg doc.

To be honest, I spent more time cleaning the EGR and sorting out little niggles than i did enjoying it, so i got rid of it after 10 months. I didn't really care who had owned it before me, I just knew that i had been lied to at the time of the sale and I should have followed my instincts and walked away, but I needed a car and had my heart set on the ST.

Anyway, this has gone off track a bit and even though i'm aware my experience was unusual, it goes to prove that a big mechanical problem is less of a problem if the dealership are good, than a series of little problems when the dealers don't care in the slightest.

[JesusJohnson]

Having just put a £700 deposit on a T180 and reading this post I am now wondering if I am doing the right thing? Can anyone confirm if Toyota are just paying for this engine were talking about or if they are paying the bill for all engines failing with this problem?

I am getting rid of my Zafira as its been a nightmare and has a known bad engine, the 1.9cdti 150, mine has had 2 EGR valve a new DPF and now needs a new inlet manifold so was supposed to be exchange for the more reliable Toyota T180?

So I wonder if I could be going from bad to worse?

[anchorman]

You are in a different league to a Vauxhall with this RAV. If you find it uses oil or blocks the EGR, you have 7 years from the date of registration or 110000 miles to tell them and they will fit a new engine at no cost to you.

[CharlieFarlie]

Sorry Clumsy fingers...

Wee Charlie.

[CharlieFarlie]

Let Me tell You where I stand on this one,, I bought a T180 about 4 months ago. I chose the car because of its huge spec and My one is fully loaded.. Also I wars motivated by the huge reliability reputation that Toyota enjoy.. Then I come onto the Forum and start hearing about the engine and thought sod it It wont happen to Me .... All was well until I started doing long motorway trips and then the engine started burning Oil !! Around 1.5 litres per thousand miles.. MMMmmmmm

So I took the car into the Dealers who topped up the oil and asked Me to return 1000 or so miles later which in My case was one run up to Home in Scotland and back again.. Oil was monitored and in 1200 miles almost 2 litres of oil used................

Result ? New engine being fitted as We speak.. Loan car Kindly supplied.. Dealer is probably the best I've ever used !! I ran a business for 32 Years and NO manufacturers Dealerships have come close to the superb service I have so far received.. BRILLIANT !!

But and there had to be a but... My confidence is lost in the car.. I have never had to have a major component replaced in all the many cars vans or Motorcycles in 37 Years of motoring....

You have the superb back up that Toyota offer so the worry is not great until the car is 7 Years old ... My only concern is that as the car approaches 7 Years old and if the engine in this hypothetical car has not been replaced then will it be a saleable prospect if the hypothetical buyer is clued up .... Obviously that will not be the case for Me ...

So in answer to the question ?? Tough one but all honesty I would not buy it ...

Wee Charlie.