Avensis Dilemma

[Pekay]

Hi all, can't believe i'm posting this as i ain't even bought the !Removed! car yet but here goes.

I stuck a deposit down on an 07 plate 2.2 d4d T-Spirit estate, it's done 114k and is absolutely mint and drives lovely, whatever the outcome of this i can walk away from the deal and get my deposit back, here's the dilemma.

After i put the deposit down i started to read some of the horror stories re the head gasket problem and have spent the last few days researching the problem and it's cause.I was fortunate enough to check the full service history and made a note of the dealer stamp, the car has not missed a main dealer service since it was bought, it's obviously a company car with that mileage, a quick call to the dealership revealed that a diagnostic check this year(february) recommended a short engine change and cylinder head replacement so it;s obviously shown the dreaded symptoms. I was all ready to go to the dealer, give up my deposit and walk away and chalk it up to experience.

Armed with this info i approached the dealer/seller and asked exactly what work had been carried out as the ad just stated the timing chain had been done, when i asked him about this on Saturday(test drive) he just said, i have my own mechanics so due to mileage i changed it!!. it obviously has had work done as the oil is brand new and clean.

When i confronted him with the info i have from the dealer he chose to elaborate, the engine has been out, head removed/checked and skimmed, full rebuild including new rings, new gaskets, timing chain and all the ancillary stuff replaced, he even gave me the engineering works where he had the work done(rang up and confrmed this), and then went on to say if i was still in doubt he would extend the engine warranty to 12 months.

So............. can the head be skimmed sucessfully??, if not, how long before it goes again??, i have no reason to doubt what he says is true and he obviously has confidence in his mechanics to offer the extended warranty.

Incidentally, i spoke to a Toyota mechanic earlier today who stated the following, there are thousands of these cars out there and they have only had a handful in for the head gasket problem, he thinks the problem is down to the superlong life coolant that Toyota use, apparently it eats the head and gasket due to overheating, poor maintenance is a big contributary factor and infrequent oil changes,he also said that if they are going to fail it's usually around 50 -70k but not set in stone, i asked if a different coolant changed regularly could solve the problem if it hasn't manifested yet,,,,,,maybe was the answer!!. The Toyta dealer i got the info from about the car stated that as Toyota have officially recognised the problem the will replace engine up to 7 years provided they are below 111k and they wont budge on the mileage, although the mechanic said that aftersales and warranty issues were taken on merit provided there is FSH.

I will be visiting a few more Toyota specialists for an opinion on skimming the head before committing but my take is that, the car did 114k before it gave up and has now been fully rebuilt so in theory should be good for many miles yet!, if i look around for another one with less mileage then i may well have the same dilemma.

I know there is a few Techs on here so would welcome opinions, but any advice greatly received.

[GPO]

Hi all, can't believe i'm posting this as i ain't even bought the !Removed! car yet but here goes.

I stuck a deposit down on an 07 plate 2.2 d4d T-Spirit estate, it's done 114k and is absolutely mint and drives lovely, whatever the outcome of this i can walk away from the deal and get my deposit back, here's the dilemma.

After i put the deposit down i started to read some of the horror stories re the head gasket problem and have spent the last few days researching the problem and it's cause.I was fortunate enough to check the full service history and made a note of the dealer stamp, the car has not missed a main dealer service since it was bought, it's obviously a company car with that mileage, a quick call to the dealership revealed that a diagnostic check this year(february) recommended a short engine change and cylinder head replacement so it;s obviously shown the dreaded symptoms. I was all ready to go to the dealer, give up my deposit and walk away and chalk it up to experience.

Armed with this info i approached the dealer/seller and asked exactly what work had been carried out as the ad just stated the timing chain had been done, when i asked him about this on Saturday(test drive) he just said, i have my own mechanics so due to mileage i changed it!!. it obviously has had work done as the oil is brand new and clean.

When i confronted him with the info i have from the dealer he chose to elaborate, the engine has been out, head removed/checked and skimmed, full rebuild including new rings, new gaskets, timing chain and all the ancillary stuff replaced, he even gave me the engineering works where he had the work done(rang up and confrmed this), and then went on to say if i was still in doubt he would extend the engine warranty to 12 months.

So............. can the head be skimmed sucessfully??, if not, how long before it goes again??, i have no reason to doubt what he says is true and he obviously has confidence in his mechanics to offer the extended warranty.

Incidentally, i spoke to a Toyota mechanic earlier today who stated the following, there are thousands of these cars out there and they have only had a handful in for the head gasket problem, he thinks the problem is down to the superlong life coolant that Toyota use, apparently it eats the head and gasket due to overheating, poor maintenance is a big contributary factor and infrequent oil changes,he also said that if they are going to fail it's usually around 50 -70k but not set in stone, i asked if a different coolant changed regularly could solve the problem if it hasn't manifested yet,,,,,,maybe was the answer!!. The Toyta dealer i got the info from about the car stated that as Toyota have officially recognised the problem the will replace engine up to 7 years provided they are below 111k and they wont budge on the mileage, although the mechanic said that aftersales and warranty issues were taken on merit provided there is FSH.

I will be visiting a few more Toyota specialists for an opinion on skimming the head before committing but my take is that, the car did 114k before it gave up and has now been fully rebuilt so in theory should be good for many miles yet!, if i look around for another one with less mileage then i may well have the same dilemma.

I know there is a few Techs on here so would welcome opinions, but any advice greatly received.

I thought I had read on here that you can't skim the head, because there is no appropriate (presumably thicker) head gaskett produced to maintain the correct compression ratio.

Also, how would infrequent oil changes affect the coolant, as they circulate in different systems until such time as a head gaskett failure occurs ?

[Jamesbelfast]

I think if it was a coolant problem there would issues other than head gasket failure.

As a general rule skimming diesel engine cylinder heads is always seen as the second best choice.

[Mistermena]

The head gaskets can not be skimmed for this engine. I think that TOC member "Ormi" (Toyota tech) has posted this a few times in the past...

[ormi]

you cant skim the head or the block of a toyota diesel engine if the block and head are bad enough to get a skim then they should be replaced.....also warranty wouldnt pay for this!!!!so i dont understand why they have skimmed these parts

[Pekay]

you cant skim the head or the block of a toyota diesel engine if the block and head are bad enough to get a skim then they should be replaced.....also warranty wouldnt pay for this!!!!so i dont understand why they have skimmed these parts

Its not Toyota that have rebuilt this engine Ormi mate, the garage that is selling the car has had it rebuilt using its own mechs, the head/block has been skimmed at a local engineers.

The real point to my post was to query if the head/block could be skimmmed and if it was how long would it last, it;s passed all the compresion tests etc but i;m more or less decided that i'm gonna walk away from this one!!.

[Mistermena]

you cant skim the head or the block of a toyota diesel engine if the block and head are bad enough to get a skim then they should be replaced.....also warranty wouldnt pay for this!!!!so i dont understand why they have skimmed these parts

Its not Toyota that have rebuilt this engine Ormi mate, the garage that is selling the car has had it rebuilt using its own mechs, the head/block has been skimmed at a local engineers.

The real point to my post was to query if the head/block could be skimmmed and if it was how long would it last, it;s passed all the compresion tests etc but i;m more or less decided that i'm gonna walk away from this one!!.

I would walk away from it! I think there's to much of a risk with these 2.2 engines...

[Heidfirst]

there are conditions where the 2.2 still makes sense but given the particular circumstances (over the mileage that Toyota will warranty & a head skimmed that ormi , a TLT, says shouldn't be) I think that I would walk from this one.

[ormi]

on their notes about this engine they say do not skim either the head or the block.....dont get me wrong it might run forever and be the best car youve ever owned but then again it might pack in after a few months....

also what toyota tec did you talk too??a handfull of head gaskets????wtf i myself have forgot how many ive rebuilt and thats just me theirs 5 tlts at the work and 2smt....auris,avensis,verso,rav also the lexus is220 as its the same engine and at my work now we have two avensis's(ones the 2.0lrt and the other 2.2) and a rav waiting for new engines and two weeks ago we had 4 in the workshop getting new engines all at once....so i think he's telling pork pies.....lol

[Pekay]

on their notes about this engine they say do not skim either the head or the block.....dont get me wrong it might run forever and be the best car youve ever owned but then again it might pack in after a few months....

also what toyota tec did you talk too??a handfull of head gaskets????wtf i myself have forgot how many ive rebuilt and thats just me theirs 5 tlts at the work and 2smt....auris,avensis,verso,rav also the lexus is220 as its the same engine and at my work now we have two avensis's(ones the 2.0lrt and the other 2.2) and a rav waiting for new engines and two weeks ago we had 4 in the workshop getting new engines all at once....so i think he's telling pork pies.....lol

Ormi, the tech i spoke to simply said they had had quite a few in , i think he was making a comparison to the thousands out there so the percentage of failures was not that great!.

But.............from what you say it seems the problem is a lot worse, just a thought mate, have you not considered working front of house in sales?? with a sales pitch like your above post i,m sure you would go down a treat.lol ;)

By the way, i sacked the idea and got a Honda accord instead!!

[ormi]

to be honest mate the cars them selfs are good and i love working with them and i would recomend them to friends and family and if i ever sold my supercharged lexus is200 i'd have a avensis t180 estate......yes they are having teething problems with the 2.2 and the 2ltrt but lets say you went to ford with a 4 year old car or even reno said my head gaskets away or its burning oil or the coolants low you know what you'd get??????? a masive masive bill were as toyota is footing the bill which is not far off £10k by the way...