Runflat Tyres. A Point Worth Considering

[CharlieFarlie]

Sorry I know there have been many threads about the Runflat Tyre... But I think a point should be made and maybe added to the other main thread after a time so Members can see it..

A few weeks ago I asked the Manager at Mc Conechkys Tyres in Perth if They would remove My tyres. Then remove the Rings and Refit the existing tyres leaving Me without the runflat set-up but leaving Me with the four very good tyres...

The Guy who was very knowledgeable informed Me that there is a Major Insurance implication with doing this as from the outside it looks like the run-flat system is still in place because of the designation on the side wall of the tyre....

If for instance someone was to have a puncture and see this designation ( Two rings intertwined) on the side walls they may assume that they can drive the car.... Of Course You or I would know not to do this but say You sold the car and either The new Owner was informed and forgot or just chose to ignore ...... Well You know where this is heading..

Another scenario is that You have an accident where a Tyre is deflated and It might be assumed that You are driving on a run flat without the support system in place

So I contacted My insurance Aviva via My broker who confirmed that NO insurance cover would be in effect if the Run flat tyres with the side wall designation were fitted with the rest of the system removed...

If however You replace the run-flat tyres and the supporting system with ordinary tyres then no problem at all. No need to inform them either....

This is exactly as it has been told to Me.. I would strongly suggest that You ask You own insurance company of Their policy in case it differs......

The basis of this post is to say that DO NOT run run flat tyres without the support system in place !!! HTH

Wee Charlie.

[Manxrav]

Judging by the amount of posts regarding the Toyota run-flat tyre senario, I would think that the majority, get rid of them to replace with Non-runflats. Toyota cocked up big time on this move and it was left to the poor man in the street who own the T180 to either choose to keep them and pay a premium for the choice, or get rid and put normal non-runflats on them.

My biggest grumble when I had mine was the flaming TPM flashing on my dash for no apparent reason!!!!!

Regards Clare

I completly agree with your post Charlie.

[webleymk3]

Definitely made the right decision with the xt5

[CharlieFarlie]

Definitely made the right decision with the xt5

But Weblers I can buy four Yokohamas for My T180for 480 quid and carry a tyre repair kit just like the very latest Rav on sale today.. Plus still enjoy the massive specification that comes with the T180....

The Tyre issue really is not that dificult to overcome..................

[Davrav]

Definitely made the right decision with the xt5

But Weblers I can buy four Yokohamas for My T180for 480 quid and carry a tyre repair kit just like the very latest Rav on sale today.. Plus still enjoy the massive specification that comes with the T180....

The Tyre issue really is not that dificult to overcome..................

As I understand it, the ONLY difference between normal tyres and those designated for the Bridgestone support ring system is the moulded symbol that is there purely to show the support ring is fitted.

If the support ring is removed couldn't the symbol simply be 'scuffed' off the tyre

[webleymk3]

Definitely made the right decision with the xt5

But Weblers I can buy four Yokohamas for My T180for 480 quid and carry a tyre repair kit just like the very latest Rav on sale today.. Plus still enjoy the massive specification that comes with the T180....

The Tyre issue really is not that dificult to overcome..................

Yeah but with an 8 month old, the worst case scenario is the wife getting a serous puncture half way up the A9 in the middle of winter. The knowledge of having a spare on the back that can easily be changed is worth not having the extra bhp (she would do it herself). Also the fact that no one in Edinburgh (including Toyota) has the facilities to change RFTs then it could be seen as foolish to leave myself open to the risk.. Yes one can spend many hundreds of pounds to remove the rings however I just don't have that kind of spare cash right now. I'd also like to purchase some winter tyres this year if the budget allows!

Don't get me wrong tho WeeC, the T180 was quite far up the want list!!

[sywy]

As a few on here know, I replaced mine with new alloys and tyres. I did tell my insurance company that I had replaced my original alloys with third party alloys. I think the insurance company I was with at the time charged me extra, as it was classed as a modification!! I think my current insurance company (LV) is Ok with it, as long as they were the same size as the originals, which they are. The only problem is that I've had my tpms light flashing at me for the best part of 2 years now. I have seen that you can disable the light by cutting a certain wire, but I daren't do it!! On another note, I was told that my local Toyota dealer have now got rid of their RFT machines, as they reckon it was costing them money to change the tyres!!

[Manxrav]

As I posted earlier on, Toyota made one big *****-up when they put their idea of run-flats on the T180.

Regards Clare

[Big Kev]

I for one was one of the (probably many...?) folk interested in Charlie's great condition tyres, and it had been my intention to do what his insurance company have freaked about.....put them on without the BSR and run them as normal. Due to his posting, I have withdrawn my interest, and now my mother in law's daughter has piped up that she actually prefers the fact that she can drive my car for a certain mileage on a puncture, so I am now enjoying a good view of my tonsils, as my head has disappeared up my **** on this subject.

Then along comes sywy, announcing his local Mr.T has decommissioned his runflat machine...will this be the norm? Have a look at the time Marsky had his in for new alloys under warranty, and the debacle that revolved around his local Mr.T's runflat machine operation....

Have decided this is my Last Post (cue music) on the subject....they are coming AFFSKY, TO BE REPLACED WITH NORMALS.

Thanks to Charlie for heads up, which Marsky may have given us all yonks ago (rings a bell....) and goodbye on this subject..

Big Kev

PS Charlie : pm sywy for photo of the alloys he fitted if you do go down wheels AND tyres route...jolly attractive style.

[wardude]

I changed my RFTs for all the usual reasons. However, IF I had a puncture in the area I live with my RFTs in place, I would have a 90 mile drive to the nearest Toyota garage to get it fixed. That would be a drive at 40 odd mph, with a damaged tyre down the A1 dual carraigeway. To me that is VERY unsafe. The tyre could come off the wheel or split and come off and cause a nasty accident to myself and /or others. Now, my car is set up like 99% of other cars on the road. ie, normal tyres which can be changed ANYWHERE and by anyone.

I agree the RFT is a good idea if you can get it repaired at any high street tyre dealer. Fact is though you cant. What if you have a puncture in the highlands of Scotland, have no phone signal and can only drive approx 50 miles before the tyre disintergrates?? How dangerous is that??

We have driven cars for 100 odd years without having to rely on a stupid warning light telling us we have a puncture. Plus, like I said before, I lost air in one of my wheels before my RFT system was disabled. I knew long before the light came on that I had a puncture. The tyre was down to a dangerously low psi before the light came on. The whole system is a complete clusterf**k and in my eyes a money making scheme by Toyota, who, after my last run in with them, can kiss my big fat butt

BTW good advice from the wee man.

[CharlieFarlie]

Definitely made the right decision with the xt5

But Weblers I can buy four Yokohamas for My T180for 480 quid and carry a tyre repair kit just like the very latest Rav on sale today.. Plus still enjoy the massive specification that comes with the T180....

The Tyre issue really is not that dificult to overcome..................

As I understand it, the ONLY difference between normal tyres and those designated for the Bridgestone support ring system is the moulded symbol that is there purely to show the support ring is fitted.

If the support ring is removed couldn't the symbol simply be 'scuffed' off the tyre

This is something I have also considered but I just cant bring Myself to take chances where Insurance is concerned !! After all the cost of a set of tyres while not cheap is not worth getting into a whole heap of trouble over ... But Yes of course the designation marks could simply be removed with a Dremel or even sanded off.....

Wee Charlie.

[CharlieFarlie]

I changed my RFTs for all the usual reasons. However, IF I had a puncture in the area I live with my RFTs in place, I would have a 90 mile drive to the nearest Toyota garage to get it fixed. That would be a drive at 40 odd mph, with a damaged tyre down the A1 dual carraigeway. To me that is VERY unsafe. The tyre could come off the wheel or split and come off and cause a nasty accident to myself and /or others. Now, my car is set up like 99% of other cars on the road. ie, normal tyres which can be changed ANYWHERE and by anyone.

I agree the RFT is a good idea if you can get it repaired at any high street tyre dealer. Fact is though you cant. What if you have a puncture in the highlands of Scotland, have no phone signal and can only drive approx 50 miles before the tyre disintergrates?? How dangerous is that??

We have driven cars for 100 odd years without having to rely on a stupid warning light telling us we have a puncture. Plus, like I said before, I lost air in one of my wheels before my RFT system was disabled. I knew long before the light came on that I had a puncture. The tyre was down to a dangerously low psi before the light came on. The whole system is a complete clusterf**k and in my eyes a money making scheme by Toyota, who, after my last run in with them, can kiss my big fat butt

BTW good advice from the wee man.

I had the TPMS light come on a few weeks ago and thought bow larks here We go.. but all it was was a slightly low pressure on the rear Off side about 7 PSI. I have a compressor and air line in the garage so checked all tyres and monitored them foe several days and no problems at all. The offending rear tyre has held its pressure since so all seems well...

I'm with You though Sean. Just for peace of mind I would love to ditch them but the cost of removing them is just stupid £216 !!!! So against My instincts I will leave them for now until at least My arm is forced by a puncture or the !Removed! things wear out !!!!!

If I get a tyre problem I will simply get relayed by the RAC to the destination of My choice and then cut the things off ! I just cant tear through 4 almost new tyres with a reciprocating saw .............................

Wee Charlie.

[CharlieFarlie]

As a few on here know, I replaced mine with new alloys and tyres. I did tell my insurance company that I had replaced my original alloys with third party alloys. I think the insurance company I was with at the time charged me extra, as it was classed as a modification!! I think my current insurance company (LV) is Ok with it, as long as they were the same size as the originals, which they are. The only problem is that I've had my tpms light flashing at me for the best part of 2 years now. I have seen that you can disable the light by cutting a certain wire, but I daren't do it!! On another note, I was told that my local Toyota dealer have now got rid of their RFT machines, as they reckon it was costing them money to change the tyres!!

Simon. Would You Please post up a pic of Your replacement wheels ????? I have a superb contact in Simon Jefferies of Jeffferies tyres in Bromsgrove who can get just about any wheels on the planet !! At very keen prices to boot !! The make and model would also help Mate Please ....

Wee Charlie.

[MarsKy]

Then along comes sywy, announcing his local Mr.T has decommissioned his runflat machine...will this be the norm? Have a look at the time Marsky had his in for new alloys under warranty, and the debacle that revolved around his local Mr.T's runflat machine operation....

Thanks to Charlie for heads up, which Marsky may have given us all yonks ago (rings a bell....) and goodbye on this subject..

Big Kev

Aye :D

Even with several spare wheels and tyres, I could see ahead that the dealers themselves will probably kill off the RFTs. So the T180 went (clunky 2nd gear was the main reason though).

They don't like changing the tyres because there's a high probability they'll break a sensor or slit a side-wall, at their cost. And what a cost - £15-£20k for a machine giving no return on investment. I wonder if the Bridgestone guy who gave us the list of dealers with "the machine" still looks in? How many are still on the list?

But I still run with runflats, on the BMW. There's a new generation of runflats which give a more comfortable ride, even on 245/40/R18s.

Charlie - consider the Kia Sorento KX-3 SatNav as an alternative to the Kuga. 196bhp AWD automatic. Better toys than the T180. Full spare wheel under floor. I bought the BMW after failing to agree a deal with the Kia dealer on the KX-3 (down to a £100 - probably cut my nose off to spite my face. But got fed-up with the rookie dealer walking out of the office over a dozen times to ask his boss whether he could deal on what we were negotiating).

[sywy]

Hi Charlie, these are my wheels. They are Team Dynamics Rimfires.

[wardude]

£216 to remove them?? Is that to remove the rings and have the tyres popped back on?? Only i paid just over £200 to have mine cut off and two new Hankooks fitted!!

[CharlieFarlie]

£216 to remove them?? Is that to remove the rings and have the tyres popped back on?? Only i paid just over £200 to have mine cut off and two new Hankooks fitted!!

ETB Worcester wanted £45 plus VAT each wheel plus VAT to remove the tyres and the rings... This I am afraid is just robbery.. I do not now or never have minded paying a fair price for any service but 216 quid is just ridiculous ... The Guy says that they have had to buy the machine which of course I already knew but perhaps it pays for it to stand idle rather than earn a fair amount of ££££

McConecheys wanted 100 quid all in but alas I am in the Midlands where I can source 4 Yokohamas for 480 quid all in and McConecheys are in Scotland.......

Wee Charlie.

[CharlieFarlie]

Hi Charlie, these are my wheels. They are Team Dynamics Rimfires.

Simon. Thanks for posting !! Very nice wheels those are Mate .... I really would prefer to retain My original T180 rims but may resort to a new set.. Those really suit the car.

Wee Charlie.

[wardude]

well all my guy did was cut the bands off and fit new tyres to the Toyota rims. He only charged me £20 labour for removing the two rings.

[CharlieFarlie]

well all my guy did was cut the bands off and fit new tyres to the Toyota rims. He only charged me £20 labour for removing the two rings.

Mate I can cut them off for free ??? But the tyres are virtually new so that would be a flaming waste would it not ?? I would not be bothering to remove them if they were knackered............................. :unsure:

Wee Charlie.

[wardude]

I can cut them off for free too but why get my lovely hands dirty for the sake of £20 . Just re read thread again and didnt realise your tyres were new

[Roadwrangler]

I've been looking into changing the tyres on my car recently, the MOT is due soon and I doubt all the tyres would get through. I thought I'd got through some of the BS today as I've heard so many conflicting things about these tyres.

I spoke with a Toyota service guy today (at the only dealership in my area who has the particular tyre machine for runflat's) the guy seemed straight, no BS.. Current price for new runflat's £218.40 a corner, inc vat etc. Prices went up about 3 weeks ago. I asked a number of questions trying to get my self some options. From what he told me, the wheels are a standard wheel and can take any tyre, also what it doesn't say in the manual is that if you get a puncture and actually run the tyre flat, although the 'runflat system' may save the tyre, running it flat actually destroys the doughnut thing inside the tyre!!! these are £127 ea to replace.. So your puncture repair could be £127 + the repair cost.

I also asked about removing the runflat system and fitting standard tyres, which he said he'd be happy to do, he advised I'd also have to remove the TPMS sensor/valves as they apparently don't work with the runflat system removed, as they work on air volume which seems ridiculas for a 'Pressure' monitoring system, and they do not have the ability to un program them so the car ignores them after being removed, hense why the light stays on. I am still waiting for the phone call back with the price on a 5th bare alloy and 5 std tyres. Do main dealers ever phone back?

A friend of mine who works at a different Toyota dealership got me the number of the tyre company they use, so I phoned them, they are an independant tyre specialist, 30+ years in the business, no connection to Toyota. They are a "Bridgestone Partner" and have the tyre machine for runflats, which Bridgestone actually gave to them for free as Toyota were making such a mess of changing these tyres. He actually charges about 25% more than the toyota main dealer, he recons it takes about a day to change 4 of these tyres properly hence his price. I asked him the same sort of questions, he says unden NO Circumstances should the original T180 alloys have the funflat system removed and standard tyres fitted, as its not safe! To quote him, modern alloys utilise a 2 hump safety system which means there are 2 raised humps (or rings) around the inner and outer edges of the alloy, just inside the 'J' rim where the tyre seats, the 2 raised humps are fairly deep and prevent the tyre bead breaking away whilst your driving. On the T180 alloys there is only a single shallow hump, as the tyre relies on the doughnut thing inside the tyre to hold them in place. With the runflat system removed, under hard cornering or even moderate cornering and hitting a pothole etc could easily break the bead and knock the tyre off the rim, he says only way is to buy 4 or 5 new aftermarket alloys and have the tyres of your choise fitted to them. I told him what Toyota service had said to me, he replied Toyota should stick to making cars and leave Tyres to the experts like him. I'm more inclined to believe the independant tyre guy, he has nothing to gain or loose, also I've removed a wheel and had a local tyre place just see if they could gently break the bead without just crushing the tyre, they couldn't, each time they pushed against the bead, it pushed back, which supports the theory of the doughnut helps keep the tyre mounted on the rim properly. He also recons according to the bridgstone catalogue the tyre used on the runflat rav system is a standard tyre, nothing special however he feels its a softer/spongier rubber with having to be stretched so much to fit over the doughnuts etc...

I'm still at a bit of a loss with this, I'll chase toyota again tomorrow for that price and see what the guy says about the humps, but new alloys and tyres looking favorite and safest option at present.

Regards Austin..

[Manxrav]

Excellent post Austin, seems to clarify a lot of the thoughts i had on the "infamouus" T180 run-flat system. As you say in your post and I totally agree with Toyota should stick to making cars and not mess around with tyres- leave that to the people who know best!!.

Regards Clare

[wardude]

well my bro in law has ran his Rav without run flat donuts fitted for nearly 3 years now and aint had any problems. I have run mine for 8 months without any problems. The TPMS CAN be left intact without the donuts on and works fine. My tyre guy also compared my T180 wheels to non Toyota wheels he had in the garage and there is NO difference in the wheels. They are bog standard alloy wheels (ie the humps you mention). Mine has ran fine with no donuts and NO tpms system for a good few months now without any probs either.

So on that, stuff Toyota, stuff Bridgestone and stuff anyone who has this tyre fitting equipment and wants to make money changing run flat tyres

[shcm]

......to have to remove the TPMS sensor/valves as they apparently don't work with the runflat system removed, as they work on air volume which seems ridiculas for a 'Pressure' monitoring system....

It's smelly, sometimes brown, comes out of male bovines and the dealer would appear to have an excess of it.