Winter Driving?

[Paulus17]

Well i have been reading some of the older posts i have found through the search facility about winter driving.

But i need to ask to put our minds at ease when it comes to driving in the snow and ice.

Is the RAV really that good in those sort of conditions without winter tyres fitted.Will the Nexens we have just had fitted be good enough in the worst of conditions.

We have been lucky here in Brum with the winters compared to other parts of the country,but SWMBO needs to get to work and is not a keen driver in the snowy conditions.Will the RAV put her mind at rest this winter??

[CharlieFarlie]

Like any car great care has to be taken and the vehicle will react in very much the same way as a 2WD car in braking situations unless the 4WD system is engaged. But driving a car with 4WD will be so much easier. And of course with all wheels driven You are much less likely to get stuck say in snow On My car a 2006 there is the diff lock button on the dash I'm assuming Your car has this ? Pressing this button engages 4WD and ensure all wheels turn at the same speed so drive in slippery conditions becomes very much more controlled. When the vehicle reaches 29MPH the system returns to the default setting meaning its front wheel drive until the computer calls for all wheel drive if the front wheels start to loose traction or grip...

I know nothing about the brand of tyre that You have but the vehicle will be much more secure than any 2WD car in any adverse conditions with the same tyres fitted.

I honestly think that only in the very worst conditions would snow tyres be needed!!

We often see Drivers (Up here in Scotland) tearing round like lunatics in their 4WD vehicles. They seem to forget that in braking situations they are almost in the same boat as those in 2WD cars... HTH

Wee Charlie.

[Davrav]

Well i have been reading some of the older posts i have found through the search facility about winter driving.

But i need to ask to put our minds at ease when it comes to driving in the snow and ice.

Is the RAV really that good in those sort of conditions without winter tyres fitted.Will the Nexens we have just had fitted be good enough in the worst of conditions.

We have been lucky here in Brum with the winters compared to other parts of the country,but SWMBO needs to get to work and is not a keen driver in the snowy conditions.Will the RAV put her mind at rest this winter??

RAVs are very competent in snow and will keep going when others fall by the wayside. Snow/winter tyres will always perform better then general usage tyres but with careful driving a RAV will do the job far better than most in the snow. Tread depth and correct inflation will obviously help no matter what tyres are fitted.

Just have to remember that, no matter what tyres are fitted, the laws of Physics still apply...........

[firemac]

Like any car great care has to be taken and the vehicle will react in very much the same way as a 2WD car in braking situations unless the 4WD system is engaged. But driving a car with 4WD will be so much easier. And of course with all wheels driven You are much less likely to get stuck say in snow On My car a 2006 there is the diff lock button on the dash I'm assuming Your car has this ? Pressing this button engages 4WD and ensure all wheels turn at the same speed so drive in slippery conditions becomes very much more controlled. When the vehicle reaches 29MPH the system returns to the default setting meaning its front wheel drive until the computer calls for all wheel drive if the front wheels start to loose traction or grip...

I know nothing about the brand of tyre that You have but the vehicle will be much more secure than any 2WD car in any adverse conditions with the same tyres fitted.

I honestly think that only in the very worst conditions would snow tyres be needed!!

We often see Drivers (Up here in Scotland) tearing round like lunatics in their 4WD vehicles. They seem to forget that in braking situations they are almost in the same boat as those in 2WD cars... HTH

Wee Charlie.

The 4.2 is perm 4-wheel drive and no separate diff lock. I believe that yours is a 4.3 , Charles Minor, with all the fancy electro gubbins that brings in 4-wheel drive only when needed.

Charlie's right about the physics, Paul, in that if you push any vehicle beyond its physical capabilities, it will bite you. 4-wheel drive is much, much better in poor conditions but it does not make you invincible; as long as you drive sensibly, you can motor through the most atrocious conditions without any problems. In the sort of severe conditions that we had in the last two winters I'd say that the majority of T&C tyres fitted to most SUV's were more than adequate - I've always used Bridgestone Duellers and they've been excellent. Winter-spec tyres can certainly make a 2-wheel drive car perform much better than it would otherwise (even on a rwd vehicle, which is more disadvantaged in snow/ice than fwd's) however they won't make that much difference on your 4x4. If things get so bad that they would make such a difference, then you may as well go for full-blown off-road M&S fitments. But that's really extreme and, as I say, I reckon you'll be just fine with what you have plus normal common sense. In bad weather conditions smoothness is everything.

[Jozsef]

We often see Drivers (Up here in Scotland) tearing round like lunatics in their 4WD vehicles. They seem to forget that in braking situations they are almost in the same boat as those in 2WD cars... HTH

Wee Charlie.

This will be my first winter with the Rav4 (Black T180). Also in Scotland (Highlands)

I am interested in how it performs. Up till now in the previous 5 years I pushed the snow with a Mitsubishi Pajero. It was no problem for a car like that.

[Paulus17]

Thanks everyone

Having never driven a four wheel drive before i can't advise her as to what to do.

But basically you just drive normally but obviously with more care,and there is less chance of losing control in the RAV??

She doesn't go fast anyway and is a safe careful driver but as you say that doesn't account for others.

When i said the tyres we have i just meant general tyres will be good enough,although the snow tyres would be much better.

Would there be any point in putting snow socks on.We bought some last year for the Meriva but didn't use them so again can't say if they would work.

[CharlieFarlie]

Thanks everyone

Having never driven a four wheel drive before i can't advise her as to what to do.

But basically you just drive normally but obviously with more care,and there is less chance of losing control in the RAV??

She doesn't go fast anyway and is a safe careful driver but as you say that doesn't account for others.

When i said the tyres we have i just meant general tyres will be good enough,although the snow tyres would be much better.

Would there be any point in putting snow socks on.We bought some last year for the Meriva but didn't use them so again can't say if they would work.

As above. It has been pointed out that You version of the Rav is permanent 4WD Sp You will have twice the traction and twice the engine braking than any 2WD car.. So the car is just a better car in bad weather..

Again as above normal Tyres will be more sufficient for 99% of the time so dedicated Snow tyres would be both expensive and unecessarie for all but the most extreme weather and We just do not get that in this country....

Almost no point in those sock things Mate. They might help a 2WD car gain traction but You will have that in abundance with You permanent 4WD anyway..

If Your Wife is a good and cautious driver You have No worries at all !!

Edited to add ..

Show Me a picture of Your tyre and I will tell You how capable it will be in snow.. How ?

Tyres with a chunky build with big wide sipes (The cuts and grooves) will throw the snow clear of the tyre far more easily.

Tyres that have a smoother more car like appearance and the sipes closer together will be less able to do this so the tyre will quickly gather snow around it and loose traction.

Most normal over the counter 4WD tyres will be a cross combination of the above in order to give good solid road manners grip and still be able to offer good snow capability...

Coming from a racing back ground. Club racing on Motorcycles and National level in Kart racing gives a reasonable understanding of How a tyre works.. Going into Redgate corner at Donnington Park with Knee on the ground means placing a good deal of trust in Your tyre choice.....

Wee Charlie. :thumbsup:

[Jozsef]

Truth: In the grip of winter tires in a cool summer weather reduced the start, therefore, increases the risk of accidents. The winter tires softer, more flexible thanks to a special composition, so better stick to, and are resistant to changing weather conditions. Not just snow, but cold, dry weather can also provide greater safety on the roads as summer tires, because they are specially formulated rubber compound in the cold because they lose the optimal adhesion properties. What should I do? Do not wait until the first snowfall! Be sure to replace it in time for summer tires for the winter! +7 ° C Replace now!

The all-season tire tread material and in the winter and in summer a kind of mix. Running surface is not particularly in summer and winter is not specifically, although both features detected it. So - to some extent - and in the winter. summer temperatures and road conditions are able to meet. It is obvious, however, has its limits: in extreme conditions can not be met, such as a specially dedicated to the winter or summer tires. All-season tires, you may want to choose it or not, or only rarely leads to higher speeds generally prefer shorter distances, flying in winter, especially in bad weather does not regularly use your car in an important aspect of the economy, but because you do not want to give up the security of the whole year the same tire to be used, no plans to purchase a separate set of summer and winter.

If by chance you live on a hill where winter should cling to your car, do you for a drive between the mountains, go skiing, traveling at high speeds on motorways, high-performance vehicles, etc., then the all-season tire is not for you.

[Davrav]

Truth: In the grip of winter tires in a cool summer weather reduced the start, therefore, increases the risk of accidents. The winter tires softer, more flexible thanks to a special composition, so better stick to, and are resistant to changing weather conditions. Not just snow, but cold, dry weather can also provide greater safety on the roads as summer tires, because they are specially formulated rubber compound in the cold because they lose the optimal adhesion properties. What should I do? Do not wait until the first snowfall! Be sure to replace it in time for summer tires for the winter! +7 ° C Replace now!

The all-season tire tread material and in the winter and in summer a kind of mix. Running surface is not particularly in summer and winter is not specifically, although both features detected it. So - to some extent - and in the winter. summer temperatures and road conditions are able to meet. It is obvious, however, has its limits: in extreme conditions can not be met, such as a specially dedicated to the winter or summer tires. All-season tires, you may want to choose it or not, or only rarely leads to higher speeds generally prefer shorter distances, flying in winter, especially in bad weather does not regularly use your car in an important aspect of the economy, but because you do not want to give up the security of the whole year the same tire to be used, no plans to purchase a separate set of summer and winter.

If by chance you live on a hill where winter should cling to your car, do you for a drive between the mountains, go skiing, traveling at high speeds on motorways, high-performance vehicles, etc., then the all-season tire is not for you.

Wot he says

[CharlieFarlie]

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[firemac]

Truth: In the grip of winter tires in a cool summer weather reduced the start, therefore, increases the risk of accidents. The winter tires softer, more flexible thanks to a special composition, so better stick to, and are resistant to changing weather conditions. Not just snow, but cold, dry weather can also provide greater safety on the roads as summer tires, because they are specially formulated rubber compound in the cold because they lose the optimal adhesion properties. What should I do? Do not wait until the first snowfall! Be sure to replace it in time for summer tires for the winter! +7 ° C Replace now!

The all-season tire tread material and in the winter and in summer a kind of mix. Running surface is not particularly in summer and winter is not specifically, although both features detected it. So - to some extent - and in the winter. summer temperatures and road conditions are able to meet. It is obvious, however, has its limits: in extreme conditions can not be met, such as a specially dedicated to the winter or summer tires. All-season tires, you may want to choose it or not, or only rarely leads to higher speeds generally prefer shorter distances, flying in winter, especially in bad weather does not regularly use your car in an important aspect of the economy, but because you do not want to give up the security of the whole year the same tire to be used, no plans to purchase a separate set of summer and winter.

If by chance you live on a hill where winter should cling to your car, do you for a drive between the mountains, go skiing, traveling at high speeds on motorways, high-performance vehicles, etc., then the all-season tire is not for you.

Generally speaking you may be right (I think...). However, I can only relate my own experience: we ran standard Duellers on our RAV through the last two winters (we got down to -20C on a few occasions and for days on end we had snow with temps staying well below freezing) with no problems whatever. As far as I'm concerned, for normal use, winter boots on our 4x4's = total waste of money.

To be honest, and at the risk of sounding like a re-constituted dinosaur, I think this whole winter tyre business is just another way to generate income by the tyre companies. I've been driving for over 40 years in all sorts of vehicles, conditions & roads and I have to say that the last couple of winters have simply been reminicent of winters many years ago "opp north" when snow & ice were regular occurances and there was no talk of winter tyres - you just learned to cope with the conditions by driving accordingly. Oh yeah, those cars didn't have ABS or traction control or any of the modern electro gubbins - you actually had to know what you were doing!

[anchorman]

I had Bridgestones on the first RAV and Yokohamas on the blue one. They were both astonishing in the snow so I would not spend the extra money on snow tyres, socks or chains until you have tried it. Just have a quick search on youtube for RAV in the snow, you'll start to get the picture

[Big Kev]

Truth: In the grip of winter tires in a cool summer weather reduced the start, therefore, increases the risk of accidents. The winter tires softer, more flexible thanks to a special composition, so better stick to, and are resistant to changing weather conditions. Not just snow, but cold, dry weather can also provide greater safety on the roads as summer tires, because they are specially formulated rubber compound in the cold because they lose the optimal adhesion properties. What should I do? Do not wait until the first snowfall! Be sure to replace it in time for summer tires for the winter! +7 ° C Replace now!

The all-season tire tread material and in the winter and in summer a kind of mix. Running surface is not particularly in summer and winter is not specifically, although both features detected it. So - to some extent - and in the winter. summer temperatures and road conditions are able to meet. It is obvious, however, has its limits: in extreme conditions can not be met, such as a specially dedicated to the winter or summer tires. All-season tires, you may want to choose it or not, or only rarely leads to higher speeds generally prefer shorter distances, flying in winter, especially in bad weather does not regularly use your car in an important aspect of the economy, but because you do not want to give up the security of the whole year the same tire to be used, no plans to purchase a separate set of summer and winter.

If by chance you live on a hill where winter should cling to your car, do you for a drive between the mountains, go skiing, traveling at high speeds on motorways, high-performance vehicles, etc., then the all-season tire is not for you.

Generally speaking you may be right (I think...). However, I can only relate my own experience: we ran standard Duellers on our RAV through the last two winters (we got down to -20C on a few occasions and for days on end we had snow with temps staying well below freezing) with no problems whatever. As far as I'm concerned, for normal use, winter boots on our 4x4's = total waste of money.

To be honest, and at the risk of sounding like a re-constituted dinosaur, I think this whole winter tyre business is just another way to generate income by the tyre companies. I've been driving for over 40 years in all sorts of vehicles, conditions & roads and I have to say that the last couple of winters have simply been reminicent of winters many years ago "opp north" when snow & ice were regular occurances and there was no talk of winter tyres - you just learned to cope with the conditions by driving accordingly. Oh yeah, those cars didn't have ABS or traction control or any of the modern electro gubbins - you actually had to know what you were doing!

Have to agree entirely with Firemac on this one, but still bow to folks like Marsky who made a very good case for winter tyres before when I poo-pooed them. One fault I've never had with the Runflats over those two winters was the grip....even my driveway is an incline, and they gripped on solid ice no problem.

Will I regret the change to Hokoyama Normal Tyres....??? Watch this space....

My attitude to winter tyres now is....if you don't care about poverty in the third world, or mistreated donkeys, carry on and fill yer boots....

Big Kev

[Paulus17]

Thanks everyone

Here is the tyre we have fitted all round Charlie.Nexen ST701.

You have some nice looking wheels there Charlie

Anchorman.I have been watching the vids on Youtube and they do look impressive what the RAV can do,but i'm thinking these are experienced off road drivers taking part in them all.It would be good to see a few of first time drivers in those sort of conditions.

I'm sure the car and SWMBO will be fine when it comes to it.

[CharlieFarlie]

Thanks everyone

Here is the tyre we have fitted all round Charlie.Nexen ST701.

You have some nice looking wheels there Charlie

Anchorman.I have been watching the vids on Youtube and they do look impressive what the RAV can do,but i'm thinking these are experienced off road drivers taking part in them all.It would be good to see a few of first time drivers in those sort of conditions.

I'm sure the car and SWMBO will be fine when it comes to it.

Chunky in the middle area not quite so on the edges so definitely a 50/50 . They will be just fine Mate !!

I still have the black race bike but the Karts are in the Kart graveyard now Mate !!

Wee Charlie.

[Paulus17]

Thanks Kev,missed your post as we posted the same time

Don't get me wrong i don't really wanna fork out for another set of tyres and if thses tyres will do that will be fine.As i say we have been really lucky here with the winters but it's good to know that swmbo will be in a better car for the worse of conditions.

Thanks Charlie.I know they are a budget tyre but they do seem to have good reviews,so this winter will tell.

How long have you stopped racing for now??

[Guest]

All this talk of tyres reminds me, I will need a front pair before winter starts, I will stick with the Geo's as they got me through two snowy winters, as well as getting the wife and what seemed like half her company to work, plus delivered Meals on Wheels for a mate whose van couldnt make it to the more remote houses or to ones up a slope.

I understand the need for some for winter tyres, but in deepest Berkshire I can't jusify the cost :-) nor the space for 4 tyres to be stored all year.

Any recommendations for tyre web sites beyond black circles/event tyres?

Gus

[Paulus17]

All this talk of tyres reminds me, I will need a front pair before winter starts, I will stick with the Geo's as they got me through two snowy winters, as well as getting the wife and what seemed like half her company to work, plus delivered Meals on Wheels for a mate whose van couldnt make it to the more remote houses or to ones up a slope.

I understand the need for some for winter tyres, but in deepest Berkshire I can't jusify the cost :-) nor the space for 4 tyres to be stored all year.

Any recommendations for tyre web sites beyond black circles/event tyres?

Gus

Got my Nexens from Here

Mainly because they were the only place i could find that matched the front tyres.

They came the next day after ordering them in the morning,which i thought was very good

[CharlieFarlie]

Thanks Kev,missed your post as we posted the same time

Don't get me wrong i don't really wanna fork out for another set of tyres and if thses tyres will do that will be fine.As i say we have been really lucky here with the winters but it's good to know that swmbo will be in a better car for the worse of conditions.

Thanks Charlie.I know they are a budget tyre but they do seem to have good reviews,so this winter will tell.

How long have you stopped racing for now??

Well competitively Bikes around five Years . A heavy crash at Donnington Park way back in 2002 meant I have only partial grip of My right hand.. Karts 3 Years... I still do the odd track day on Bikes but now concentrate on My Martial Arts which I have been doing for 43 Years ..... That and a play on the Jetski gives Me a bit of a buzz.

I'm still trying to get into Golf but have to admit its one sport that I cant master . When I say master I mean hit the !Removed! ball !!

Wee Charlie.

[Paulus17]

Sorry to hear about your crash Charlie.

Was any of your races televised.

Bit of a difference between that and golfing for you.

[CharlieFarlie]

Sorry to hear about your crash Charlie.

Was any of your races televised.

Bit of a difference between that and golfing for you.

No mate Club racing doesn't make telly very often !! And Kart racing likewise.. Golf I've tried since moving to sunny Scotland as everyone round by Me and most if not all Scots play it !! To be honest it has been said I would be better of growing runner beans up My clubs as at least I would get a return !!!!! I just keep trying though !!

Wee Charlie.

[Paulus17]

I thought you said you were in Bromsgrove??

Must admit i enjoy watching the golf on the box.

Only tried it once meself on the practice.I hit the ball ok and it was going nice and straight,but it soon veered off and into the bushes.

I always wanted to drive upto Scotland and tour round,but that aint gonna happen now

[Jozsef]

Hello mates!

I'm sorry to have caused an argument with the winter tyres. I only copied the text from leaflet.

Every winter I'm going through the Netherlands-Germany-Austria and it's a must in those countries.

Policemen inspect the M+S or the snowflake sign on the side of the tyre, and you get fined if you don't have them in winter conditions.

I'm thnik that buying winter tyres is not a waste of money.

Charlie! My gearbox is hard to change from 1st to 2nd gear if it's cold. What's it's trick? :)

You have a nice bike and a cool gokart as well. :)

Regards

Jozsef.

[Davrav]

Hello mates!

I'm sorry to have caused an argument with the winter tyres. I only copied the text from leaflet.

Every winter I'm going through the Netherlands-Germany-Austria and it's a must in those countries.

Policemen inspect the M+S or the snowflake sign on the side of the tyre, and you get fined if you don't have them in winter conditions.

I'm thnik that buying winter tyres is not a waste of money.

Charlie! My gearbox is hard to change from 1st to 2nd gear if it's cold. What's it's trick? :)

You have a nice bike and a cool gokart as well. :)

Regards

Jozsef.

Don't worry Jozsef.

M+S tyres are not a must here in the UK.

That explains why our road system and life as we know it usually pretty much grinds to a halt if we have anything more than 25mm of snow for longer than half a day

If our winters start to regularly get more severe, like the last one, I would not be at all surprised if we start getting attempts to change legislation here too.

[Jozsef]

Don't worry Jozsef.

M+S tyres are not a must here in the UK.

That explains why our road system and life as we know it usually pretty much grinds to a halt if we have anything more than 25mm of snow for longer than half a day

If our winters start to regularly get more severe, like the last one, I would not be at all surprised if we start getting attempts to change legislation here too.

:)

Very true what you say!