Flat Battery?

[Paulus17]

SWMBO as just phoned me from work as she was just gonna do a bit of shopping in here lunch hour,but the Battery on the RAV was completely flat and wouldn'nt even turn the engine just dead flat,and there is a beeping noise when she tries she says???

The car has started first time every time in the short while we have had it,but did need a boost when we first had a test drive in it at the garage.

Any ideas what can have caused it to drain so suddenly??

[Guest]

I would have a search on here, or wait to this evening but I seem to remember a thread that mentioned that the petrol Rav Battery was a little under powered and likely to die without much warning, better for it to happen now rather than in the middle of winter.... I seem to recall some recommendations of what to replace the Battery with, so dont rush to replace without looking first.

Gus

Edit

battery link thingy

also I seem to remember check the earth strap as it corrodes and also get it drop tested, cant profess to understand what that involves but someone will be about soon that does, oh and get the charging tested.

that is me out of useful comments.

[Davrav]

I would have a search on here, or wait to this evening but I seem to remember a thread that mentioned that the petrol Rav battery was a little under powered and likely to die without much warning, better for it to happen now rather than in the middle of winter.... I seem to recall some recommendations of what to replace the battery with, so dont rush to replace without looking first.

Gus

Edit

battery link thingy

also I seem to remember check the earth strap as it corrodes and also get it drop tested, cant profess to understand what that involves but someone will be about soon that does, oh and get the charging tested.

that is me out of useful comments.

Would second earth strap check in first instance. Also check terminals are fully on/tight.

[pmb]

Bizarrely I was going to post something similar today. Mine has had 5 days of non-use and wouldn't start today. There have been a couple of threads in the past about this. It's a newish Battery and earth strap looks fine. It bleeps when you dis earth to charge. Alarm goes off on reconnection IF the Battery has dropped below a certain voltage. Radio and mpg need reselecting and you get rough idling for a day or two I find. I'm sure in the past I have left it longer than this with no problems. I've monitored the current drawn (without alarm being on) and it's not a great deal. Just doesn't seem to like short journeys these days.Had issue with loose earth terminal in the past but today it seemed tight. Almost though Battery terminal is too small for connector.

[dervdave]

Have the Battery tested, it just might be knackered :)

[crofter]

Paul, what is it 5 weeks since you got the car?

Is it possible it is not doing enough miles to replace what is taken out of the Battery when starting?

If this is the case and the Battery does not reach full charge then it gradually runs down until its flat.

It wont be that it suddenly went flat, it just couldn't summon up enough poke to operate the starter at that time.

Any decent Battery supplier will be able to check your battery and tell you about its condition and at the same time tell you if the charge rate is OK.

I don't think many suppliers now "drop test" now. this involved using a device that took a large amount of current quickly.

This could cause excessive gassing to occur which was flammable,and juicey sparks when the tester was lifted off the battery Not a brilliant combination!!

To save time I would suggest giving your battery a good charge before testing as it save you time and the tester having to do it.Don't worry about maybe them thinking charging it will make them think a duff one is good.

The test equipment can suss that out.

I like to eliminate the easy,and maybe cheap!,first

Del

[Paulus17]

Thanks everyone and thanks for the link Gus

Well SWMBO got the RAC out and they tested it and it was showing cream crackered.He said it looks like it's the original Battery and as done well he said.

Then one of SWMBOs work friends said her boyfriend,who runs a car place,could get a Battery out to her and fit it which they have done and all seems ok now thank goodness

He as fitted a Yuasa,or summat like that,battery she said cost £79??

He also checked to see if all was working as it should be,and was surprised how good a condition the RAV is,she said.

He also found one of the clips that was missing :D

Del- it as been used quite a lot over the weekend,unusually for us and did have a longish run on Saturday night,but apart from that it is usually short trips of 5-10 miles during the week.

[crofter]

Might be worth having a word in the sellers lug-hole,especially as it would not start when you bought it.

They could have charged the Battery and knowing when you were fetching it,warmed the engine so it would start easily.

Nothing ventured,nothing gained,eh

Del

[igormus]

SWMBO as just phoned me from work as she was just gonna do a bit of shopping in here lunch hour,but the battery on the RAV was completely flat and wouldn'nt even turn the engine just dead flat,and there is a beeping noise when she tries she says???

The car has started first time every time in the short while we have had it,but did need a boost when we first had a test drive in it at the garage.

Any ideas what can have caused it to drain so suddenly??

hi mate

i ve had the same before and was forced to change the Battery cos of an issue with (+) contact inside. Yes the symptoms were the same -- first start is OK but once i ve stopped it even during petrol refilling -- i could not start it up. MrT has given me their working Battery unless mine new arrived/installed. I can guess your Battery volume indicator remains to be green even flat battery? Cheers/Igor

[Paulus17]

Might be worth having a word in the sellers lug-hole,especially as it would not start when you bought it.

They could have charged the battery and knowing when you were fetching it,warmed the engine so it would start easily.

Nothing ventured,nothing gained,eh

Del

Already done that Del but i knew it wouldn't be under the warranty just engine and gearbox,but not to worry just hope it's ok now with a new Battery for the winter months.

Do you think the short journeys of 5-10 miles are long enough to charge it enough??

I did check to see if the engine was cold when we went and had a look at it for our test drive and it was.The Battery was also flat a few days before when we first viewed it,so that boost was probably it's first charge for however long.

Igor- not sure what volume indicator is you mean.Do you mean on the tester,as i don't have one??

[igormus]

Might be worth having a word in the sellers lug-hole,especially as it would not start when you bought it.

They could have charged the battery and knowing when you were fetching it,warmed the engine so it would start easily.

Nothing ventured,nothing gained,eh

Del

Already done that Del but i knew it wouldn't be under the warranty just engine and gearbox,but not to worry just hope it's ok now with a new Battery for the winter months.

Do you think the short journeys of 5-10 miles are long enough to charge it enough??

I did check to see if the engine was cold when we went and had a look at it for our test drive and it was.The Battery was also flat a few days before when we first viewed it,so that boost was probably it's first charge for however long.

Igor- not sure what volume indicator is you mean.Do you mean on the tester,as i don't have one??

refer to the upper lid -- there must be charging round glass. that is what I meant. if Battery is fully charged - the green indicating color is visible when seen thru the glass.cheers

[crofter]

Might be worth having a word in the sellers lug-hole,especially as it would not start when you bought it.

They could have charged the battery and knowing when you were fetching it,warmed the engine so it would start easily.

Nothing ventured,nothing gained,eh

Del

Already done that Del but i knew it wouldn't be under the warranty just engine and gearbox,but not to worry just hope it's ok now with a new Battery for the winter months.

Do you think the short journeys of 5-10 miles are long enough to charge it enough??

I did check to see if the engine was cold when we went and had a look at it for our test drive and it was.The Battery was also flat a few days before when we first viewed it,so that boost was probably it's first charge for however long.

Igor- not sure what volume indicator is you mean.Do you mean on the tester,as i don't have one??

Afraid that question is like how long is a piece of string especially now, as it is impossible to tell what is switched on these cold wet mornings.

If the original Battery was kaput then that was obviously the problem and should cause yous no more problems,but if it does run down it won't hurt to give it a boost once in a while.

I know people who trickle charge overnight in winter so they get the full ooph from a warm battery on icy mornings.

Thats fine if you can do it in situ,but not if you have to refit it and end up with frostbite

Oh,happy days dragging two batteries across a snow covered lorry park at 4 am when I worked on the lorry fleet at a national bakery!!

If anyone says anything about character building stuff,I hope your heater packs up

Del

[CharlieFarlie]

2 things point to a completely dead Battery... 1 SWHMBO Left something switched on which has drained the Battery completely... ( Please do not tell Her tih was My suggestion as No member of the fairer s*x could ever do this !) Or 2 catastrophic Battery failure.. Either way before replacing said battery. Recharge Slowly. Then have it load tested to ascertain what is wrong with it.... HTH

PS Sometimes batteries become so discharged that normal chargers cannot recover them. I have a charger in the Garage that may do the job as it is designed to do just this.. I will post it to You if it helps so long as Yopu promise to post it back... Its not that large,,

Wee Charlie.

[Paulus17]

Oh right thanks Igor

This is the first Battery problem we have ever had with a modern car,and thats two Cortina estates,two Sierra Estates,a Zafira and the Meriva.

Charlie i am assured she didn't leave anything on but what she did do was reverse the Rav back so the car in front could get out,but while doing this the driver in front went on the moby so SWMBO switched the engine off as it was few minutes.She then went to move it back but the Battery was then flat.

This new Battery is fully charged apparently.

Thanks for that offer Charlie but will we need it now with a new battery???

[Jamesbelfast]

I have lost count the number of times I have seen people buy new batteries needlessly. Yes Sir your Battery is furbarred here's a new Kerching!!

A few simple cheap tests can avoid such an expensive mistake.

1. Get the Battery load tested using professional test equipment (see attached picture) - a piddly we hand held unit or a voltmeter is useless. Ideally the Battery should be tested three times in succession - if there is a weak cell it'll show.

2. Have the alternator output checked - ideally just after the engine has started from cold.

3. Check what residual ampage drain remains after the car has been locked and parked up for 15 minutes or so.

Many decent battery suppliers (not the fast fit outlets) will do these simple checks for free or cheaply in the hope of gaining a sale.

Alawys remember the voltage reading across it battery is no indication whatsoever of it working capacity. After all if youi taped eight "AA" batteries end to end they would give out 12 volts but anyone with half a brain would know they wouldn't start a car.

One other point to remember a poor battery will shorten the life of the starter motor and a poor starter motor will shorten the life of a battery.:)

[CharlieFarlie]

Oh right thanks Igor

This is the first battery problem we have ever had with a modern car,and thats two Cortina estates,two Sierra Estates,a Zafira and the Meriva.

Charlie i am assured she didn't leave anything on but what she did do was reverse the Rav back so the car in front could get out,but while doing this the driver in front went on the moby so SWMBO switched the engine off as it was few minutes.She then went to move it back but the battery was then flat.

This new battery is fully charged apparently.

Thanks for that offer Charlie but will we need it now with a new battery???

Paul. I had not picked up on the fact that You had bought a new Battery !!

Wee Charlie.

[CharlieFarlie]

Oh right thanks Igor

This is the first battery problem we have ever had with a modern car,and thats two Cortina estates,two Sierra Estates,a Zafira and the Meriva.

Charlie i am assured she didn't leave anything on but what she did do was reverse the Rav back so the car in front could get out,but while doing this the driver in front went on the moby so SWMBO switched the engine off as it was few minutes.She then went to move it back but the battery was then flat.

This new battery is fully charged apparently.

Thanks for that offer Charlie but will we need it now with a new battery???

Paul. I had not picked up on the fact that You had bought a new Battery !!

Wee Charlie.

[anchorman]

A Yuasa Battery is the finest money can buy and that is worldwide. You don't need to do many miles for the alternator to keep up, it will be fine.

The original batteries dying at short notice are well documented.

[Paulus17]

I have lost count the number of times I have seen people buy new batteries needlessly. Yes Sir your battery is furbarred here's a new Kerching!!

A few simple cheap tests can avoid such an expensive mistake.

1. Get the battery load tested using professional test equipment (see attached picture) - a piddly we hand held unit or a voltmeter is useless. Ideally the battery should be tested three times in succession - if there is a weak cell it'll show.

2. Have the alternator output checked - ideally just after the engine has started from cold.

3. Check what residual ampage drain remains after the car has been locked and parked up for 15 minutes or so.

Many decent battery suppliers (not the fast fit outlets) will do these simple checks for free or cheaply in the hope of gaining a sale.

Alawys remember the voltage reading across it battery is no indication whatsoever of it working capacity. After all if youi taped eight "AA" batteries end to end they would give out 12 volts but anyone with half a brain would know they wouldn't start a car.

One other point to remember a poor battery will shorten the life of the starter motor and a poor starter motor will shorten the life of a battery.:)

Thank you for your reply James

But i think SWMBO just wanted to know she was getting home and have the car to get her to work reliably from now on,touch wood ,and was happy that she was offered the help from her friend at the time.

Anchorman.

Are Yuasa batteries still ok today,i thought i'd read somewhere that they aren't as good as they once were??

I did ask for an heavy duty Battery to be fitted but was assured taht the one now fitted would be ample even in the winter??

I did also find that the 4.1s batteries were too small for the size of engine,as this been improved on the 4.2s??

Sorry if they are daft questions.

[anchorman]

No not a daft question.

Yuasa batteries are absolutely first class. The !Removed! tend to over engineer batteries and failures on almost any Jap made car are rare. To make a good comparison with a Battery, the best way is to weigh it. Jap batteries have more lead plates than euro batteries and you can tell when you pick them up. More lead plates means more capacity and often more cost but I personally don't mind paying if I get the quality. You have got a fine abttery there.

The carrier on the 4.2 is capable of holding a diesel Battery with no modification. I suppose your situation could only have been bettered by fitting the diesel version. It has rather more capacity but having said all that, if you get another 9 years are you really that bothered?

[crofter]

I have lost count the number of times I have seen people buy new batteries needlessly. Yes Sir your battery is furbarred here's a new Kerching!!

A few simple cheap tests can avoid such an expensive mistake.

1. Get the battery load tested using professional test equipment (see attached picture) - a piddly we hand held unit or a voltmeter is useless. Ideally the battery should be tested three times in succession - if there is a weak cell it'll show.

2. Have the alternator output checked - ideally just after the engine has started from cold.

3. Check what residual ampage drain remains after the car has been locked and parked up for 15 minutes or so.

Many decent battery suppliers (not the fast fit outlets) will do these simple checks for free or cheaply in the hope of gaining a sale.

Alawys remember the voltage reading across it battery is no indication whatsoever of it working capacity. After all if youi taped eight "AA" batteries end to end they would give out 12 volts but anyone with half a brain would know they wouldn't start a car.

One other point to remember a poor battery will shorten the life of the starter motor and a poor starter motor will shorten the life of a battery.:)

My post regarding the use of modern Battery testers instead of a drop testers was passed on to me by the chap in a local shop to me who only supplied batteries from watches up to some huge ones you could hardly lift on your own!!

They also supplied to the trade,and that info was in turn passed on in good faith.

If I misunderstood what he told me,then I will accept being corrected

Del

[CharlieFarlie]

Yuasa batteries are fitted as standard equipment to most Japanese Motorcycles and Jet skis. They are as Anchs says absolutely first class. I have one on My Ski and would trust nothing else !!

Wee Charlie.

[Paulus17]

Thanks Anchs/Charlie,thats good to know then

[firemac]

Thanks Anchs/Charlie,thats good to know then

Coincidentally to this thread appearing, our 5-dr appears to be spinning over a bit slower than normal these past few mornings. I suspect that as the Battery (Furukawa) is the original and is now 9+ years old, it may be giving us advance warning of imminent failure. It was my plan to replace it with another Furukawa and, in view of Anch's comments above, wonder how they compare to Yuasa.

I've also noted that Kingo (I think) recently recommended Toyota's own dealer-supplied batteries as being best solution. As a matter of interest, what make are they?

TIA,

Jim

[pgp001]

I fitted a Halfords diesel Battery to my petrol 4.2, its a really easy upgrade and should be better on my cold morning short runs to work.

The original Battery had not died, so I have it in the garage connected to a float charger just as a backup.

I also have one of those LED Battery monitors plugged permanently into the cig lighter socket, its nice to know whats happening with the charging system.

Phil